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  1. #281
    The Insane Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gardoc View Post
    You just perfectly described leftists talking about anything economy related.
    Did I? Well good, now let's hear some of your awesome economic knowledge, come on, blow us away!

    Oh, wait, you already did with this gem:
    "tax cuts for entrepreneur boosts economy, lowers unemployment rate and highers pay for workers"

    Sooo do tell how do you think this works.

    Cutting taxes for entrepreneurs makes them create jobs?

    Or do you think subsidizing entrepreneurs is the way to give them a headstart, which might lead to the creation of jobs?
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before.

    A bunch of times actually.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    Did I? Well good, now let's hear some of your awesome economic knowledge, come on, blow us away!

    Oh, wait, you already did with this gem:
    "tax cuts for entrepreneur boosts economy, lowers unemployment rate and highers pay for workers"

    Sooo do tell how do you think this works.

    Cutting taxes for entrepreneurs makes them create jobs?

    Or do you think subsidizing entrepreneurs is the way to give them a headstart, which might lead to the creation of jobs?
    Both helps, but lowering the bureaucracy and taxes are the most important parts of political programs of every serious right-wing party. Are you from the USA? If so it might be hard for you to understand this as you have only two major political parties.
    And no, cutting taxes for entrepreneurs doesn't make them create jobs, but it makes it easier for them to expand their company, which usually creates more jobs.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Gardoc View Post


    No, thinking lowering the taxes for entrepreneurs (or "rich" how you like to call them) is a bad thing is communism/socialism/left (doesn't really matter, same thing)
    Its bad for the working class, ye.
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Can you call me when that happens? Don't watch TV normally but for this I will put it on.
    ^In response to a hypothetical about Trump molesting kids on live TV.
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Man, I broke the NPC script here. The lack of self awareness really hurts my immersion.

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Gardoc View Post
    You just perfectly described leftists talking about anything economy related.

    BTW I know what I'm talking about, I know what our right-wing governments did in order to fix the economy. What experience do you have besides your movies?
    You say that, and yet pretty much the only US President in living memory to deliver a surplus was a Democrat.

    Here's a few scorchers from Politifact kek:


    Recessions more frequent under Republicans than Democrats

    The stock market does better when you have a Democratic president in the White House.
    Since 1961 … our private economy has produced 66 million private-sector jobs. So what's the jobs score? Republicans 24 million, Democrats 42

    And a few more:

    The U.S. economy has performed better when the President of the United States is a Democrat rather than a Republican, almost regardless of how one measures performance. For many measures, including real GDP growth (on which we concentrate), the performance gap is both large and statistically significant.
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/sean-...b_9065112.html


    https://www.salon.com/2015/03/28/the...ive_president/

    I mean there's heaps of comparisons like these, at the end of the day there's a lot of circumstances you'd have to take into account but the upshot is that at best you'd have to say that there's no strong evidence the Republicans perform better.

    This whole right wing claim to fame with the economy? Little factual basis. It's all a dog and pony show for the gullible.

  5. #285
    The Insane Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gardoc View Post
    Both helps, but lowering the bureaucracy and taxes are the most important parts of political programs of every serious right-wing party. Are you from the USA? If so it might be hard for you to understand this as you have only two major political parties.
    No, our left increased the spending on entrepreneurs and made it much easier and better for new businesses to start, our right, on the other hand, started helping already established businesses to fuck everyone and their workers over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardoc View Post
    And no, cutting taxes for entrepreneurs doesn't make them create jobs, but it makes it easier for them to expand their company, which usually creates more jobs.
    Oh, it doesn't now? Well then why the fuck did you write just that 3 posts ago?
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before.

    A bunch of times actually.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    No, our left increased the spending on entrepreneurs and made it much easier and better for new businesses to start, our right, on the other hand, started helping already established businesses to fuck everyone and their workers over.



    Oh, it doesn't now? Well then why the fuck did you write just that 3 posts ago?
    Can't you read? It's one of the consequences. That's like saying eating food doesn't make you less hungry because it's digesting that makes you less hungry.

    And about left spending on entrepreneurs, that's not the point of the right. Right wing is there to make it easier for entrepreneurs, not to spend other peoples money on them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    You say that, and yet pretty much the only US President in living memory to deliver a surplus was a Democrat.

    Here's a few scorchers from Politifact kek:


    Recessions more frequent under Republicans than Democrats

    The stock market does better when you have a Democratic president in the White House.
    Since 1961 … our private economy has produced 66 million private-sector jobs. So what's the jobs score? Republicans 24 million, Democrats 42

    And a few more:


    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/sean-...b_9065112.html


    https://www.salon.com/2015/03/28/the...ive_president/

    I mean there's heaps of comparisons like these, at the end of the day there's a lot of circumstances you'd have to take into account but the upshot is that at best you'd have to say that there's no strong evidence the Republicans perform better.

    This whole right wing claim to fame with the economy? Little factual basis. It's all a dog and pony show for the gullible.
    I'm not qualified enough to comment on that, but my experience is that left-wing governments usually brag about economy situation after right-wing governments started it. But it might be different in the US as your presidents are in the office usually for 8 years which is long enough to show results of their policies.

    BTW isn't your economy doing great right now under Trump? At least our media are saying that.

    EDIT: It seems it is doing great, "Fifty-four percent of Americans say the economy is good or excellent, the highest recorded by CNBC in the 10 years of the survey." Is CNBC considered biased or not?
    Last edited by Gardoc; 2018-07-15 at 03:19 PM.

  7. #287
    The Insane Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gardoc View Post
    Can't you read? It's one of the consequences. That's like saying eating food doesn't make you less hungry because it's digesting that makes you less hungry.
    No it's not. It can be one of the outcomes, it is by no means one of the consequences. It still relies on the product those entrepreneurs are selling, no amount of tax cuts will lead to job creation if they aren't selling anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardoc View Post
    And about left spending on entrepreneurs, that's not the point of the right. Right wing is there to make it easier for entrepreneurs, not to spend other peoples money on them.
    But you're in favour of reducing their taxes, that IS other peoples money spent on them. It makes no fucking difference if you reduce their taxes and they are left with more money or you invest upfront while keeping the taxes equal and they are left with the same amount of money as with a tax cut. Also part of the programs the left implemented is to accompany them and help them with the legal frame work and building their business.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before.

    A bunch of times actually.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Gardoc View Post
    Both helps, but lowering the bureaucracy and taxes are the most important parts of political programs of every serious right-wing party. Are you from the USA? If so it might be hard for you to understand this as you have only two major political parties.
    And no, cutting taxes for entrepreneurs doesn't make them create jobs, but it makes it easier for them to expand their company, which usually creates more jobs.
    Have you paid any attention to the history of the last ~40 years in the US? Trickle down economics don't work.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post
    No it's not. It can be one of the outcomes, it is by no means one of the consequences. It still relies on the product those entrepreneurs are selling, no amount of tax cuts will lead to job creation if they aren't selling anything.



    But you're in favour of reducing their taxes, that IS other peoples money spent on them. It makes no fucking difference if you reduce their taxes and they are left with more money or you invest upfront while keeping the taxes equal and they are left with the same amount of money as with a tax cut. Also part of the programs the left implemented is to accompany them and help them with the legal frame work and building their business.
    I have to agree that some of these things seem nice. I like that your left is supporting entrepreneurs, our left-wing parties are usually anti-entrepreneur, that's why I get really passionate when talking about right vs left.
    About that lowering the taxes vs supporting entrepreneurs, I think both approaches have their strong sides. The thing is that my father is an entrepreneur that started his business after the revolution. Nobody supported him, he had to pay for everything and he struggled for years before his company became successful. So since I was a child I've been taught that hard-working people should be rewarded and that without working there is no reward. That's why I support lowering the taxes, it is a reward for people that worked hard. Giving tax money to starting entrepreneurs feels like "rewarding" them even thought they didn't do anything.
    That's why I hate EU grants as well, it only created wannabe entrepreneurs that don't know the value of the money and they don't care about their companies and people who work in them. Which is one of the thing you guys criticize.
    Last edited by Gardoc; 2018-07-15 at 03:34 PM.

  10. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gardoc View Post
    I have to agree that some of these things seem nice. I like that your left is supporting entrepreneurs, our left-wing parties are usually anti-entrepreneur, that's why I get really passionate when talking about right vs left.
    About that lowering the taxes vs supporting entrepreneurs, I think both approaches have their strong sides. The thing is that my father is an entrepreneur that started his business after the revolution. Nobody supported him, he had to pay for everything and he struggled for years before his company became successful. So since I was a child I've been taught that hard-working people should be rewarded and that without working there is no reward. That's why I support lowering the taxes, it is a reward for people that worked hard. Giving tax money to starting entrepreneurs feels like "rewarding" them even thought they didn't do anything.
    That's why I hate EU grants as well, it only created wannabe entrepreneurs that don't know the value of the money and they don't care about their companies and people who work in them. Which is one of the thing you guys criticize.
    That's what i meant with when talking about left vs. right, you can't compare the left unison to ex-communist countries and what they considered left. Heck you can't even compare what the US consider left in their country to most of the rest of the western worlds left or right.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before.

    A bunch of times actually.

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Gardoc View Post



    I'm not qualified enough to comment on that
    So all this time you had no idea what you where talking about?

    EDIT: It seems it is doing great, "Fifty-four percent of Americans say the economy is good or excellent, the highest recorded by CNBC in the 10 years of the survey." Is CNBC considered biased or not?
    lol, 'the economy' is not subjective, and are we talking about the economy for the rich.. or?
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Can you call me when that happens? Don't watch TV normally but for this I will put it on.
    ^In response to a hypothetical about Trump molesting kids on live TV.
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Man, I broke the NPC script here. The lack of self awareness really hurts my immersion.

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Gardoc View Post
    Do you realize that tax cuts for entrepreneur boosts economy, lowers unemployment rate and highers pay for workers? Oh I forgot you leftist only care about welfare.
    The top 1% of your country are not entrepeneurs. You seem to be missing some basic understanding of economics. Trickle down is a myth. It never worked.
    Don't confuse me with the US-Slant. I'm the EU-Slant. :P
    Due to unfavourable interactions with inexperienced moderators: Whatever I posted above is in no way meant to offend. Having said that, not having my sense of humour is entirely your problem, not mine. Stop being a baby. - This disclaimer was sponsored by "Infraction: 5 points for minor flaming."

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    So all this time you had no idea what you where talking about?



    lol, 'the economy' is not subjective, and are we talking about the economy for the rich.. or?
    Yeah, that's exactly what I wanted to say when I said I'm not qualified enough to comment on history of 45 US presidents, their economy policies and the result of their policies...

    And no, there is no economy for the rich. Economy is the state of trade, production and consumption.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Gardoc View Post
    And no, there is no economy for the rich. Economy is the state of trade, production and consumption.
    Ye, this is what I mean, you have no idea what you're talking about, the economy does not benefit everybody equally. The US has huge wealth gaps and high poverty rates.
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Can you call me when that happens? Don't watch TV normally but for this I will put it on.
    ^In response to a hypothetical about Trump molesting kids on live TV.
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Man, I broke the NPC script here. The lack of self awareness really hurts my immersion.

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    The top 1% of your country are not entrepeneurs. You seem to be missing some basic understanding of economics. Trickle down is a myth. It never worked.
    Where exactly does it say that Trump's tax cut is only for top 1%? I though he reduced corporate tax for all businesses.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    Ye, this is what I mean, you have no idea what you're talking about, the economy does not benefit everybody equally. The US has huge wealth gaps and high poverty rates.
    What? Economy only describes how is country doing economically. It shows how much goods are companies producing, how much are they trading, how much are people spending on goods and services. Read some definitions first, even reading wikipedia page would be enough.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Gardoc View Post
    Where exactly does it say that Trump's tax cut is only for top 1%? I though he reduced corporate tax for all businesses.
    As I said, you don't seem to understand economics. But I'm done talking with you, you've taken up entirely too much of the attention here.
    Don't confuse me with the US-Slant. I'm the EU-Slant. :P
    Due to unfavourable interactions with inexperienced moderators: Whatever I posted above is in no way meant to offend. Having said that, not having my sense of humour is entirely your problem, not mine. Stop being a baby. - This disclaimer was sponsored by "Infraction: 5 points for minor flaming."

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    As I said, you don't seem to understand economics. But I'm done talking with you, you've taken up entirely too much of the attention here.
    I agree, there's no point talking to a person, that explains nothing and only acts smart.

  18. #298
    The Lightbringer Noxx79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gardoc View Post
    I agree, there's no point talking to a person, that explains nothing and only acts smart.
    Great, then you’ll stop posting.

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Gardoc View Post
    And no, cutting taxes for entrepreneurs doesn't make them create jobs, but it makes it easier for them to expand their company, which usually creates more jobs.
    At a higher tax rate you have a greater incentive to invest cash flows to convert them to expenses and decrease taxable income.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Gardoc View Post
    I'm not qualified enough to comment on that, but my experience is that left-wing governments usually brag about economy situation after right-wing governments started it. But it might be different in the US as your presidents are in the office usually for 8 years which is long enough to show results of their policies.

    BTW isn't your economy doing great right now under Trump? At least our media are saying that.

    EDIT: It seems it is doing great, "Fifty-four percent of Americans say the economy is good or excellent, the highest recorded by CNBC in the 10 years of the survey." Is CNBC considered biased or not?
    You just finished saying incoming administrations like to take credit for an economy under the previous one. Indeed:




    https://www.macleans.ca/economy/econ...portant-thing/

    This is silly really. Presidents don't control the economy. The effects of economic policy are very complex and take years to take effect. Voting for one party because they are "better at the economy" is asinine and honestly, you might as well vote for which party delivers better weather.

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