Modern Blizzard raid frames

[hulkgor]

Because they weren't in vanilla, we get no Tmog, no flying, no class balance. Guild banks and the likes I don't care about if they implement them or not.

But since we get the modern client, what about the modern raid frames we currently have in retail? There were raid frames in a different form in vanilla WoW and they sucked pretty bad. The modern raid frames are actually pretty good in doing what they need to do: give a clear overview of your raid with their status in one big concise frame. Also it doesn't require you to pull a group frame for every 5 man group in your raid to your screen from the raid overview, having to position them all neatly.

So, yes it would be a change, since the modern raid frames didn't exist in Vanilla, but it would also be just an upgrade to a feature that did exist in vanilla, albeit in a shitty form. Also, raid frames will be modded to something useful anyway. You can't mod guild banks into the game for example, so I would be cool with modern raid frames.

What do you think?

Oh look, another shitty suggestion from the shitty suggestion box! How original!

Also, just use fucking addons. You do know there were addons for it, right?

[owbu]

Doesnt matter since everyone Will use addons for this.

Everyone has probably never done anything :>

Lots of people will definetely use addons. Which is fine, as long as those addons don't break a part of the game that wasn't broken in 1.12.
Some people will only want their old addons back.
Some people will want the standard UI , that they used to have then.

All of those are possible with just having the standard ui + addons allowed.

[Byleth]

Maybe you should start reading what you are actually quoting

I did, your point? My comment stands.

[Fion Silberpfeil]

Doesnt matter since everyone Will use addons for this.

Thats the thing.....The old one is shit, i think THAT is something we can agree, right? And we know that today´s playerbase will use addons mutch.

And yes its still "Keep the old, i will use an addon anyway." ?????? If you/i/we will use an addon to change it anyway, why not make it at least useable in the first place? THAT is not something that will make anything easier or whatever you can think of. It will just be a useable raid frame without using even more addons.

All in all its like "Classic UI and such is shit, use an addon, but DONT change the shit. I wanna have it to change it to make it better!"

[Vaelorian]

I do feel that the snowballing argument is completely negating the fact that each and every change will be met with critical analysis. No single change will be implemented just because person B yells that his change should be implemented just because person A got his wish earlier. It's unrealistic to think that changes will be handled so unprofessionally. Changes can be proposed and each change needs to be critically evaluated and judged on their own merit wether or not will be incorporated into the base game. Maybe the game will be better because of it.

True. And I agree with what you are saying. But you do understand that if someone got his change the forums will be too small. Everyone will post more and more and more and more and asking to get their wish. The best Blizzard is off is just implement no changes at all. Honestly I doubt we will get a pristine Vanilla server. I think we'll get 99% or something. And that will probably be due to the fact that they simply don't know or have every piece of information on Vanilla anymore. So things might end up somewhat different. And I don't think what you propose is unreasonable either. Much like the mass AOE loot. But I rather have the old buggy Vanilla experience then something that resembles retail in some way

[Zuvio]

True. And I agree with what you are saying. But you do understand that if someone got his change the forums will be too small. Everyone will post more and more and more and more and asking to get their wish. The best Blizzard is off is just implement no changes at all. Honestly I doubt we will get a pristine Vanilla server. I think we'll get 99% or something. And that will probably be due to the fact that they simply don't know or have every piece of information on Vanilla anymore. So things might end up somewhat different. And I don't think what you propose is unreasonable either. Much like the mass AOE loot. But I rather have the old buggy Vanilla experience then something that resembles retail in some way

Yeah it will not, for better or worse, be 100% the vanilla of 2004. That is just not possible if only for the use of the modern client. I see raid frames also as part of the modern client. Something like aoe loot however, i feel thats a gameplay change. You can't write an addon to aoe loot if blizzard doesnt want you to. You'd get banned immediately.

Thats kind of my position right now: features that have and will be legally modded into the game by users which dont change gameplay and where blizzard already has a better version of it in retail should be implemented. Else you just get obligatory addon bloat. Yes I used CT_RAID, no I never thought that having to use an addon just to raid effectively was interesting gameplay. Not to mention the lag introduced by syncing the addon to all 40 players. That means raid frames yes but no guild bank or aoe looting. Its still a restrictuve approach to modern conveniences.

[Roxyfoxy]

I did, your point? My comment stands.

You obviously did not, since there was nothing in it that that compared vanilla to retail, but a explanation as to why addons was a massive factor into wow's initial success.

[Deleted]

Yeah it will not, for better or worse, be 100% the vanilla of 2004. That is just not possible if only for the use of the modern client. I see raid frames also as part of the modern client. Something like aoe loot however, i feel thats a gameplay change. You can't write an addon to aoe loot if blizzard doesnt want you to. You'd get banned immediately.

Thats kind of my position right now: features that have and will be legally modded into the game by users which dont change gameplay and where blizzard already has a better version of it in retail should be implemented. Else you just get obligatory addon bloat. Yes I used CT_RAID, no I never thought that having to use an addon just to raid effectively was interesting gameplay. Not to mention the lag introduced by syncing the addon to all 40 players. That means raid frames yes but no guild bank or aoe looting. Its still a restrictuve approach to modern conveniences.

So this'll actually be interesting to find out, because I'm sort of on side with the 'It comes with the new client' deal. There is however, a feature built into the system that wasn't in Vanilla to my knowledge, and that's the ground markers. It could be that they adjust the UI to remove those, or cut it out, or leave it in as a QOL thing. It's really hard to say at this point.

[Zuvio]

So this'll actually be interesting to find out, because I'm sort of on side with the 'It comes with the new client' deal. There is however, a feature built into the system that wasn't in Vanilla to my knowledge, and that's the ground markers. It could be that they adjust the UI to remove those, or cut it out, or leave it in as a QOL thing. It's really hard to say at this point.

Didn't think about ground markers. That was an addon before it was blizzard-kit wasn't it? I would be down with ground markers.

[rrayy]

You wanted classic, you are going to get classic as it was. Don't sit there and demand classic then start asking for changes almost immediately.

[Deleted]

You wanted classic, you are going to get classic as it was. Don't sit there and demand classic then start asking for changes almost immediately.

Well, it's not just about what we want, it's also predicting what we'll get. As it'll likely be based largely on modern code, with perhaps revised formulas for abilities to make it more vanilla-like, it's likely going to have the new raid frames already implemented. If anything, removing them is possibly more work than not removing them, and what we'd be demanding is that they remove this version of them and put the old version back. It's certainly more economic to keep the new ones in that case. It's also possible the old ones still exist, buried deep in the code, and just need a flag turned on to use them again.

Ultimately, this is a trivial issue. Whether we get the old ones or not, the raid frames aren't really the experience we've been wanting out of classic. They're unlikely to pose significant impact on the game whether or not they're implemented. If they're not, add-ons will fix it, if they are, I doubt many people are going to be particularly fussed about a small UI difference.

[Zuvio]

You wanted classic, you are going to get classic as it was. Don't sit there and demand classic then start asking for changes almost immediately.

The classic developers have explained quite well the technical difficulties they have encountered. You can choose to ignore them or you can start thinking to help them answer the questions they have said they will be posing us. The vanilla we had back in 2004 will not become reality, because of the modern client. I hope it now becomes a little more clear to you as to what we are really proposing, rather than demanding as you put it.

[rrayy]

The classic developers have explained quite well the technical difficulties they have encountered. You can choose to ignore them or you can start thinking to help them answer the questions they have said they will be posing us. The vanilla we had back in 2004 will not become reality, because of the modern client. I hope it now becomes a little more clear to you as to what we are really proposing, rather than demanding as you put it.

Modern raid frames were not a part of classic. So, theyt should be on classic servers, yet OP is demanding they be put in the game anyway. You want the classic experience? Then you have to do without conveniences that weren't in the game at that time.

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Well, it's not just about what we want, it's also predicting what we'll get. As it'll likely be based largely on modern code, with perhaps revised formulas for abilities to make it more vanilla-like, it's likely going to have the new raid frames already implemented. If anything, removing them is possibly more work than not removing them, and what we'd be demanding is that they remove this version of them and put the old version back. It's certainly more economic to keep the new ones in that case. It's also possible the old ones still exist, buried deep in the code, and just need a flag turned on to use them again.

Ultimately, this is a trivial issue. Whether we get the old ones or not, the raid frames aren't really the experience we've been wanting out of classic. They're unlikely to pose significant impact on the game whether or not they're implemented. If they're not, add-ons will fix it, if they are, I doubt many people are going to be particularly fussed about a small UI difference.

Then get the add-on, just as you did in classic. Basically what this thread is saying is"I want classic, but I want x,y, and z from the live game anyway. No, you wanted the classic experience, that is what you are going to get. Stop asking for modern stuff that wasn't in the game then.

[Deleted]

Then get the add-on, just as you did in classic. Basically what this thread is saying is"I want classic, but I want x,y, and z from the live game anyway. No, you wanted the classic experience, that is what you are going to get. Stop asking for modern stuff that wasn't in the game then.

As it's likely based on the modern client, it's the other way around. It's saying "don't bother removing the new ones".

There's also the horrifying possibility of the merged map/questlog UI, simply because it exists within the client, serves an identical function, and doesn't require extra man hours to make it work.

[Carnedge]

i think they will keep the same engine and addon limitations as live otherwise people will create addons to trivialize the content even further

They are using the current engine and rewriting the old code to work in it.

Vanilla content is already trivial compared to retail. But yes, even more advanced Addons will be created to make the trivial content even more trivial.

[rrayy]

As it's likely based on the modern client, it's the other way around. It's saying "don't bother removing the new ones".

There's also the horrifying possibility of the merged map/questlog UI, simply because it exists within the client, serves an identical function, and doesn't require extra man hours to make it work.

They are rebuilding the game from the ground up to work with the modern engine. They aren't taking the live client and editing it. So, you are asking to add modern raid frames. If is going to be classic like, then things that weren'[t in it shouldn't be in it and shouldn't be asked for.

[Strykie]

Blizzard is rebuilding the game with the current engine.

Which means the addons will be far more advanced than they were back in the day.

Weak auras, Raid frames, Macros, Boss timers.

Its going to be hilarious when they absolutely walk over the content because of how easy it will be.

[Chaelexi]

yes, that was game design back in 2004, and again no changes, at this day and age they would want better UI but back then you had horrid UI's

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Clases are much more balanced now then back then, by far.
Back then you had 1 spec in each class that was useful, 2 tops and that was rare.

Only Warriors and Rogues could play all 3 specs to preform what that spec was designed for. People are gonig to say druids but those people are what I like to call.....Wrong!

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Blizzard is rebuilding the game with the current engine.

Which means the addons will be far more advanced than they were back in the day.

Weak auras, Raid frames, Macros, Boss timers.

Its going to be hilarious when they absolutely walk over the content because of how easy it will be.

Top end guilds had boss timers and raidframes in Vanilla. There was even ways to make certain debuffs/buffs show up larger in the list(ghetto WA) and macro's in vanilla could almost play the game for you. We had a priest that he only had to press a button and it would auto cast the correct rank of heal, renew and shield on the correct target and would check if other healers were casting on that target and pick the next best one. He was a Comp Sci masters student.

[LookingForGroup]

probably won't

[LAspecs]

Quiet command was the best!