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  1. #381
    Epic! Bumbasta's Avatar
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    The only way that multiculturalism can exist is in a situation of apartheid. Because in a system of apartheid the cultures can survive without being fundamentally influenced by the other culture. In every other situation of what people call a multicultural society, it are cultures merging together; creating a new culture rather than several cultures surviving next to each other. In essence, multiculuralism does not exist unless there is a system of apartheid. And we can't really say that it has every succesfully been applied.
    "This is no swaggering askari, no Idi Amin Dada, heavyweight boxing champion of the King's African Rifles, nor some wide shouldered, medal-strewn Nigerian general. This is an altogether more dangerous dictator - an intellectual, a spitefull African Robespierre who has outlasted them all." - The Fear: Robert Mugabe and the martyrdom of Zimbabwe, Peter Godwin.

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    What does have to do with you hating all turks because you think they support Edrogan? I honestly do not care about that conversation since we all know you already made up your mind that Trump is some kind of super genius or whatever. I hope at least you keep a open mind to a people who are already suffering under a dictator the last thing they need is people like you adding to it.
    This the typical black and white thinking of the left again. I say something negative about a group of people and therefore i must hate him. I dont hate them. IK simply do not believe that multicultural society is possible between the Dutch and the Turks because cultural values are simply to different . And that a large amount of them support a dictator is simply an example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kail View Post
    Just a question, did peace exist before multiculturalism?
    Did peace ever exist would be a better question.

  3. #383
    I am Murloc! Flurryfang's Avatar
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    Just because something does not exists, does not mean it ain't possible
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by GreyWolf View Post
    IK simply do not believe that multicultural society is possible between the Dutch and the Turks because cultural values are simply to different . And that a large amount of them support a dictator is simply an example.
    And a simple google search would prove that you are wrong, you should try judging people based on who they are not the country they are from. Also you may want to lay off the breitbart / alex jones type of websites for a while.

  5. #385
    Multiculturalism can work but it really depends on the cultures it's dealing with.
    If you're mixing cultures that deeply disagree on core values of how to live life, then you run into a problem.

    Someone once mentioned California as an example of multiculturalism, but that's bullshit.
    Mexicans and WASPs aren't that far off in terms of culture and have no problem getting along except for minor race bashing or Protestantism vs Catholicism bickering.
    Black people were also pretty much assimilated during the time of slavery so their culture is more a focus on their race than anything.
    To this day the US still has a massive race and sexism issue considering how everyone keeps degrading white men at the moment as if it's the natural thing to do.

    This cannot be compared at all with hordes of immigrant muslim men coming to get benefits in Europe. Islamic countries usually have values that are completely against anything the west believes in.

    Freedom - Islam believes in absolute submission to Allah and that the laws of Islam. I.E Sharia must be followed to the core, freedom be damned
    Gender Equality - Islam believes women to be secondary to men, their primary purpose is to stay at home and make children. They're the man's property and must be fiercerly guarded. If a woman embarrasses the family it is the family head's duty to kill her.
    Freedom of Belief - Islam believes that Islam must be the only religion. People who follow another religion gets a heavy tax, and leaving Islam is punished by death

    Now I could go on but you get my point.
    These are people coming from such countries, with those values, and without being taught the values of their new countries.
    I'm not saying all immigrants are like this because they're not, some are even escaping from these horrors.

    But I have lived among immigrants and I can assure you, many just wants to bring their old lifestyle here, and that is why there is such a big backlash from Europeans.
    They're not racist, they're islamophobic and for a good reason considering how they're seeing their values being eroded by people seemingly coming to escape from wars, and then those people make demands, cause havoc, rape women, etc.

    What we need to do is improve the countries these people come from so they won't want to leave.
    We need to fight the illegal human trafficking happening in the Mediterranean, and we need to take in real refugees and educate them about their new countries so they can adapt to western values.
    Last edited by Gurluas; 2018-07-21 at 12:02 PM.

  6. #386
    I agree to some degree. Multiculturalism can exist in a country as long as those cultural differences don't prevent said minority from conforming to the social conventions of the country they reside in. This is absolutely feasible, as long as the culture is practiced mostly behind closed doors.

    A lot of European countries have trouble with immigrants at the moment due to the social differences caused by the clashes in culture, but for every generation that passes, those immigrants will become more integrated and thus it won't really be a problem in the long run.

  7. #387
    Nice to see so many here support the racist statements of our highest diplomat. Kinda funny that he'll probably find more support for it here than in his own party.
    And who cares it damaged relations with our former colonies in the Americas? Or even the Caribbean islands still under Dutch rule?
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Can you call me when that happens? Don't watch TV normally but for this I will put it on.
    ^In response to a hypothetical about Trump molesting kids on live TV.
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Man, I broke the NPC script here. The lack of self awareness really hurts my immersion.

  8. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by Jakisuaki View Post
    A lot of European countries have trouble with immigrants at the moment due to the social differences caused by the clashes in culture, but for every generation that passes, those immigrants will become more integrated and thus it won't really be a problem in the long run.
    It's more than European countries, the principle applies to all countries. Assimilation is a huge part of immigration, and that fact either gets glossed over or ignored nowadays. If you lack the assimilation process (by outright not having it or not enough time), you'll likely get factional warfare or social discord at the very least. For centuries many countries have understood and practiced assimilation at various levels, even the US mostly shut down immigration in the mid-1900's for decades to allow such assimilation.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    And a simple google search would prove that you are wrong, you should try judging people based on who they are not the country they are from. Also you may want to lay off the breitbart / alex jones type of websites for a while.
    Clearly you are out of arguments. But i lived worked and even befriended Turks. But im not some left win ideologist like you that cannot handle facts

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakisuaki View Post
    I agree to some degree. Multiculturalism can exist in a country as long as those cultural differences don't prevent said minority from conforming to the social conventions of the country they reside in. This is absolutely feasible, as long as the culture is practiced mostly behind closed doors.

    A lot of European countries have trouble with immigrants at the moment due to the social differences caused by the clashes in culture, but for every generation that passes, those immigrants will become more integrated and thus it won't really be a problem in the long run.
    And that last statement was a long held believe for a while. But after 6 generations Turks and Morrocans we don't see any change at all. Its also a bit arrogant to think people will just give up their identity

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    Nice to see so many here support the racist statements of our highest diplomat. Kinda funny that he'll probably find more support for it here than in his own party.
    And who cares it damaged relations with our former colonies in the Americas? Or even the Caribbean islands still under Dutch rule?
    Oh boy Gilrak is on the warpath again calling everything racist. Its kind of cute to watch though as he tries so hard.

  10. #390
    *Names several*

    *Goalposts get shifted over what a "multicultural society" is*

    Oh look it's from RT, what do you know.

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Uh... the United States? Where people from every part of the world live together?

    Frankly Europe should be looking into what the United States has done, seeing as Europe seems unable to do it by themselves.
    most of america was bound by the "grand destiny narrative" out of which came the notion of being american, american values and yes american culture. america is on the whole split into 3 main cultures, middle america culture, poor white and poor black culture. it has had spates of "other cultures" come en mass over its history and form enclaves, those have been usualy met with hostility and anger like the Irish were but are eventually consumed into the host culture.

    multiculturalism is the specific attempt to preserve a foreign culture or many cultures inside a nation, in essence to avoid integration entirely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    There is a distinction between the person and the office, and the person of Donald Trump deserves no respect. At all.
    why didn't you run for president then ?

  12. #392
    Quote Originally Posted by Laozi View Post
    most of america was bound by the "grand destiny narrative" out of which came the notion of being american, american values and yes american culture. america is on the whole split into 3 main cultures, middle america culture, poor white and poor black culture. it has had spates of "other cultures" come en mass over its history and form enclaves, those have been usualy met with hostility and anger like the Irish were but are eventually consumed into the host culture.
    You’re absolutely correct, though it is worth noting the grand destiny narrative didn’t go unopposed by either the new immigrants or those who preceded them. Americans are no more immune to the tribal impulses that evolved out of the last ice age than anyone else. This is evidenced by the pattern of ethnic enclaves which are established near point of arrival, and the flight of the previous occupants of these areas as the new arrivals become established.

    Two things in particular have helped the US overcome these problems.

    1, the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution and in particular the establishment clause. No more noble thing was ever born out of such hard necessity. It’s easy to imagine the founders as a bunch of homogenous,white, Christian men, but in the context of their time they were incredibly diverse. The difference between an Anglican, a Calvinist, a Quaker, and a Catholic were very apparent and mattered deeply. These men realized they had zero chance of forming a unified nation if the government were able to pick winners and losers with regard to personal expression and faith. By restricting the ability of government to pass laws that either oppress or pander to people of a particular sect, you create a culture where tribal differences are a matter of personal taste, not public policy. This in turn creates the sense among the people they’ve greater freedom to express their personal beliefs by obeying the law and staying off their neigbor’s lawn than doing otherwise.

    This stands in stark contrast to Europe which swings from establishing separate legal codes to pander to certain minority’s cultural practices to banning things like head scarves depending on who holds political sway at the time.

    2. (This one is shorter). The US is enormous, and economic factors make our population very mobile. This disperses people away from their enclaves lessening the influence of their respective tribes, creating a steady march to a more unified culture.

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    It's more than European countries, the principle applies to all countries. Assimilation is a huge part of immigration, and that fact either gets glossed over or ignored nowadays. If you lack the assimilation process (by outright not having it or not enough time), you'll likely get factional warfare or social discord at the very least. For centuries many countries have understood and practiced assimilation at various levels, even the US mostly shut down immigration in the mid-1900's for decades to allow such assimilation.
    First of all, "factional warfare"? A little high on drama and a little low on reality.

    The US did not shut down immigration in the mid 1900s. There are certainly restrictions put in place around that time but the real reason was the depression and WW2.

  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by GreyWolf View Post
    Clearly you are out of arguments. But i lived worked and even befriended Turks. But im not some left win ideologist like you that cannot handle facts
    Is this your " I have a black friend defense", your "facts" are just a load of bull and contradict each other you need to pick a stance on what you believe in clearly you don't believe in judging people on a individual basis otherwise your past statements were just lies. You need to decide which you is telling the "facts" can't help you there, then again you are a Trump supporter facts, reality are not something you believe in only the Donald.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    That is no excuse for disrespecting him as the President of the U.S. You can disagree and hate what his policies are and actively protest against them. But some have crossed the line in my opinion. Same as some who opposed Obama.
    You have to earn respect it's not given to anyone.
    Everyone fights in the console wars! We don't like ours, but we sure hate yours! Its Xbox One versus Ps4! Let the bodies hit the floor! Let's throw down, come at me bro! Ill fuck you up, and your mom's a ho. Don't be a fag and blame the lag; These guns aren't just for show!

  16. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    That is no excuse for disrespecting him as the President of the U.S. You can disagree and hate what his policies are and actively protest against them. But some have crossed the line in my opinion. Same as some who opposed Obama.
    This is a bit of semantics, but I prefer to make a distinction between respect and courtesy. I offer former President Obama the courtesy of referring to him with his title, despite being ideologically opposed to him because the dignity of the office he held deserves it. I do the same for President Trump. Respect on the other hand is something I offer sparingly, as it must be earned.

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