Non war mode players found a new way to grief

[yetgdhfgh]

The way i see it if you attack a enemy NPC then you should be immediately transported to warmode and then have a CD so you cant keep swapping pve and pvp just so you can grief PVErs.

Like before where you attack a enemy npc you are locked into pvp for 5mins.

Iam sure this could be easily achieved.

[Ningjinq]

To me the easiest solution is to 1. Be able to interact with quest givers in combat. 2. Make all quest givers and vendors unkillable outside of warmode.

That should fix it while not letting people abuse a theoretical fix that lets people activate warmode outside of Org/SW.

[MasterDinadan]

It’s not a “new way to grief.” This has always been possible.

As I understand it, non-war mode functions EXACTLY like PVE servers used to.
Attacking a faction NPC flags you. Once you are flagged, other players can flag in order to engage you in combat. Just like with PVE servers, this is all voluntary stuff you opt in to.

On PVE servers, players could do exactly the same thing they could do now, with the same consequence.

I believe the OP is mistaken with the assumption that players cannot “fight back” against such griefing.

[Byleth]

This seems like a minor issue. The real issue is groups.

People in warmode can create groups that non-war users can see and join, but if they do they are automitically kicked for not having warmode flagged, or they don't get moved to the right instance server as the group.

This also happens in reverse. Blizz need to make opposite group flags invisible IMO.

[Deleted]

Wait, attacking a faction npc no longer flags you for pvp, like it used to?

[FelPlague]

You are (maybe the only) factually correct poster in this thread and i appreciate the passion you put into correcting the false information/claims put out by others.

BUT:

You are wrong in one regard. You say it has been like this for 14 years (which is true) and it will always stay that way as there is no solution to it other than making NPCs immune to you causing akward behavior when Alliance players enter Org or something.

Let me ask you this question: Would it not have been POSSIBLE (and many players would argue: strongly preferable) to use the new war mode system as a fix and simply activate your true War Mode whenever you enter enemy territory or engage an enemy NPC? Phasing you to a War Mode shard, leaving players on your old Non-War Mode shard, who OBVIOUSLY have no intention to engage in wPvP, alone?

I expected Blizzard would do this. I did NOT expect them to keep the old 5min PvP-Flag from PvE servers around. I am not entirely suprised they did....but i still think the solution outlined above would have been preferable and much more player friendly. The OP was not well informed, totally correct....but he was left in a situation were a flagged player stood in front of him and he did not know how/if he was able to attack this player.

MANY players will have this issue in the months to come. It is not an elegant solution to have both War Mode and the old 5min PvP flag. It simply is not. And it was NOT necessary to keep both.

you then break warmode by doing this, the point of warmode is that you CANT just phase in and out of it, you cant just be somewhere and phase into or out of it.
imagine how annoying it would be flying to a quest to then get forced into warmode cause you got shot by an enemy npc.
you then need to go back to stormwind and then turn off warmode again. then you start your flight a- and your warmode again.
now if you could enter and exit warmode outside of stormwind this fixes nothing, as you still have the problem of people just entering into pvp whenever, the point of warmode is you have to enter it in your capital to help control people just entering and exiting at will.

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From a technicality standpoint it is a new way to exploit in non-warmode, since you want to play with words now.

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They have never stated this, ever. So stop spewing fake information.

except it is not new, not in any way, because it has LITERALLY NOT CHANGED AT ALL from when it first came out.

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This seems like a minor issue. The real issue is groups.

People in warmode can create groups that non-war users can see and join, but if they do they are automitically kicked for not having warmode flagged, or they don't get moved to the right instance server as the group.

This also happens in reverse. Blizz need to make opposite group flags invisible IMO.

they are fixing this.

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Wait, attacking a faction npc no longer flags you for pvp, like it used to?

it does, the dude just doesent know what a pvp flag is.

[Casthiel]

The way I read it meant that players not in Warmode can kill enemy faction NPC's but then players cannot stop them doing it? E.G Ally kills quest giver, horde cannot stop him? Orrrrr am I wrong?

The system is a bit confusing because we have the war mode on/off but we also have pvp toggle on/off.

I tested it earlier and this is what happened: i was on a horde character in orgrimmar with warmode turned ON.
Alliance players were attacking the warchief but i could NOT engage until i typed /pvp, which toggled pvp on, even though my warmode was on.
I assume it has something to do with sanctuaries maybe?
But it is very counter intuitive to have to turn warmode on and then toggle pvp on too.

[Zyky]

except it is not new, not in any way, because it has LITERALLY NOT CHANGED AT ALL from when it first came out.

It is new for non-warmode, non-warmode never existed in the past. Again you're the one who wanted to start playing with words on a technicality standpoint.

[FelPlague]

It is new for non-warmode, non-warmode never existed in the past. Again you're the one who wanted to start playing with words on a technicality standpoint.

uhh no you were the one who staerted playing with words, and again it is not new, you are finally going on ignore cause this is just sad, this is not new, this is not a bug, it is intended.

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This seems like a minor issue. The real issue is groups.

People in warmode can create groups that non-war users can see and join, but if they do they are automitically kicked for not having warmode flagged, or they don't get moved to the right instance server as the group.

This also happens in reverse. Blizz need to make opposite group flags invisible IMO.

blizz is fixing this.

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It’s not a “new way to grief.” This has always been possible.

As I understand it, non-war mode functions EXACTLY like PVE servers used to.
Attacking a faction NPC flags you. Once you are flagged, other players can flag in order to engage you in combat. Just like with PVE servers, this is all voluntary stuff you opt in to.

On PVE servers, players could do exactly the same thing they could do now, with the same consequence.

I believe the OP is mistaken with the assumption that players cannot “fight back” against such griefing.

You are correct, it is not a bug, it is not an exploit, it is how PVE servers have allways been.

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The way i see it if you attack a enemy NPC then you should be immediately transported to warmode and then have a CD so you cant keep swapping pve and pvp just so you can grief PVErs.

Like before where you attack a enemy npc you are locked into pvp for 5mins.

Iam sure this could be easily achieved.

You are still locked into pvp right now for 5 minutes, but imagine how annoying it would be to be questing in PVE, acidently go near a horde camp then having to go all the way back to stormwind to leave warmode again.

[Deleted]

Griefing is by definition pvp. You should name thread as "PvP players found way to abuse disabled War mode for griefing".

How do you figure that? Plenty of PvP has nothing to do with "griefing" other players, and plenty of griefing can be accomplished without resorting to players fighting players (camping a quest mob ad infinitum, eg).

[Powerogue]

I'm not sure why they left that in, it feels counterproductive to what they were attempting to get rid of with the removal of PvP servers and the addition to War Mode.

Presumably for the exact reason of this thread: otherwise players can grief opposing faction cities and get away with it unless that remains a feature.

[Wondercrab]

This isn't anything new. PvE servers have always worked this way. Killing NPCs of the opposite faction will flag you for PvP, allowing other players to attack you if they toggle PvP on. Remember that War Mode isn't the same thing as the PvP toggle -- that still works the same way it always did. War Mode just switches your server rules from PvE to PvP.

[Zyky]

uhh no you were the one who staerted playing with words, and again it is not new, you are finally going on ignore cause this is just sad, this is not new, this is not a bug, it is intended.

Never did I say it was a bug, it's an oversight, 2 very different things.

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Presumably for the exact reason of this thread: otherwise players can grief opposing faction cities and get away with it unless that remains a feature.

This has already been answered with varied solutions, if you're going to jump into a debate at least read through the debate first.

[Nathasil]

you then break warmode by doing this, the point of warmode is that you CANT just phase in and out of it, you cant just be somewhere and phase into or out of it.
imagine how annoying it would be flying to a quest to then get forced into warmode cause you got shot by an enemy npc.
you then need to go back to stormwind and then turn off warmode again. then you start your flight a- and your warmode again.
now if you could enter and exit warmode outside of stormwind this fixes nothing, as you still have the problem of people just entering into pvp whenever, the point of warmode is you have to enter it in your capital to help control people just entering and exiting at will.

I disagree. You are NOT adding an option to leave it at will. You enter War Mode, you are in War Mode. That's it. I never said anything about offering a way to exit it other than the way which already is in the game right now (port to faction capital).
I also do not share your argument of disrupting players who enter War Mode "unwillingly" by stepping into an enemy camp they might not have known about. There are exactly two possibilities:
1) They are doing it on purpose to disrupt the gameplay of all the other players in the zone. In this case they SHOULD be phased to War Mode.
2) They are doing it by accident because they simply did not know there was an enemy camp there. Well...tough luck? How is being phased into War Mode different than there being an enemy player right there who knows how the system works, typing /pvp and kicking your ass across the zone? It is not. It changes absolutely nothing. You make a mistake, maybe you pay a price for it. You can still hearth back to your capital and disable War Mode, now knowing that there is an enemy camp there which you should stay clear of if you do not want War Mode to trigger.

I am sorry, but your counter arguments do not convince me in the slightest that there is any reason to keep the legacy PvP flag in the game. To me, it really seems like the only reason Blizzard left it in was to allow players to continue to grieve players who simply want to quest and NOT wPvP.

[ONCHEhap]

This is a very good point. Forcing people to not quest or go into PvP seems like a big oversight indeed. I don't mind PvP and i have my main in War mode and will level that way in BfA, but i'm sure thi is not what they intended.

However, as someone said above, if the guard attacks it would be weird if players could not attack. It's a more complicated issue than i first thought.

Guards are kinda different though,I'd say allow non warmode players to kill guards,but as soon as they attack other NPCs,forcefully shift them into warmode,where they're likely to get their shit handed to them

[Baracuda]

Guards are kinda different though,I'd say allow non warmode players to kill guards,but as soon as they attack other NPCs,forcefully shift them into warmode,where they're likely to get their shit handed to them

I think a much more elegant solution would be to allow you to toggle war mode in "rested" areas, like an inn.

[FelPlague]

I disagree. You are NOT adding an option to leave it at will. You enter War Mode, you are in War Mode. That's it. I never said anything about offering a way to exit it other than the way which already is in the game right now (port to faction capital).
I also do not share your argument of disrupting players who enter War Mode "unwillingly" by stepping into an enemy camp they might not have known about. There are exactly two possibilities:
1) They are doing it on purpose to disrupt the gameplay of all the other players in the zone. In this case they SHOULD be phased to War Mode.
2) They are doing it by accident because they simply did not know there was an enemy camp there. Well...tough luck? How is being phased into War Mode different than there being an enemy player right there who knows how the system works, typing /pvp and kicking your ass across the zone? It is not. It changes absolutely nothing. You make a mistake, maybe you pay a price for it. You can still hearth back to your capital and disable War Mode, now knowing that there is an enemy camp there which you should stay clear of if you do not want War Mode to trigger.

I am sorry, but your counter arguments do not convince me in the slightest that there is any reason to keep the legacy PvP flag in the game. To me, it really seems like the only reason Blizzard left it in was to allow players to continue to grieve players who simply want to quest and NOT wPvP.

so again if a player is questing and then suddenly a guard shoots them, they are then phased over to warmode... that is fuckign horrible and would kill the game.

Lable on this map where the hore bases are

Now this one

This one too

and again people who do this "greiving" can then be killed by other players.

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Guards are kinda different though,I'd say allow non warmode players to kill guards,but as soon as they attack other NPCs,forcefully shift them into warmode,where they're likely to get their shit handed to them

So once they attack that npc they are slowly phased over? how does that solve anything they can 1 shot the npc then be phased.
also npcs will attack people nearby too.

[Nathasil]

so again if a player is questing and then suddenly a guard shoots them, they are then phased over to warmode... that is fuckign horrible and would kill the game.

Answer me one question, please:
If you were a game-developer, what would be more important to you?
A) Not disrupting the gameplay of players who EXPLICITLY opted out of wPvP, have not made any mistakes and see their questing disrupted potentially for HOURS by one player who continuously kills questgivers
B) Not disrupting the gameplay of players who either wish to disrupt the gameplay of others or simply did not know where the fuck they were going and therefore made a mistake

I go with option A. But that is just me.

I remember the days city guards would net and oneshot you. You had to ress multiple times to get out of their aggro-range again (or take ress-sickness), sometimes running as a ghost through entire zones, which could take upwards of 3 minutes per run. Porting back to SW/Org, hitting a toggle and flying back is NOT more punitive than that.

Or how about players that fall off a cliff and die, release their ghost and then see they have to walk back for multiple minutes only to then be in a place where they cannot get away from again without flying (which they do not yet have in that zone). Why does the game not protect you from THESE situations, but if you want to kill enemy questgivers you of course have to be protected from inconvience at all costs?

[FelPlague]

Answer me one question, please:
If you were a game-developer, what would be more important to you?
A) Not disrupting the gameplay of players who EXPLICITLY opted out of wPvP, have not made any mistakes and see their questing disrupted potentially for HOURS by one player who continuously kills questgivers
B) Not disrupting the gameplay of players who either wish to disrupt the gameplay of other or simply did not know ehre the fuck they were going and therefore made a mistake

I go with option A. But that is just me.

keeping things the way they have been for thirteen years.
I dont like this, i never have, but people making this shit up to be a new problem is disgusting and pushing an agenda.

[Otimus]

Answer me one question, please:
If you were a game-developer, what would be more important to you?
A) Not disrupting the gameplay of players who EXPLICITLY opted out of wPvP, have not made any mistakes and see their questing disrupted potentially for HOURS by one player who continuously kills questgivers
B) Not disrupting the gameplay of players who either wish to disrupt the gameplay of other or simply did not know ehre the fuck they were going and therefore made a mistake

I go with option A. But that is just me.

I'd be okay with them just teleporting opposite faction players out of the other faction areas like it does in Dalaran, in non-war mode, out in the world. Or something to that effect. Kind of defeats the purpose of having a war mode, IMO, if you don't just nip all flavors of WVP in the bud. The PVP flag definitely shouldn't survive this.