Fury criticism - objectively a 'one button/autoattack' class

[Ozzyorcborne]

I think current Fury is a lot of fun and obviously fast paced and I too think that once our legendarys don't work anymore and we lose a lot of haste, the current insane speed of Fury will only be a distant memory. I also agree that it's very simple to play and very spammy HOWEVER I disagree that you can just spam Rampage all the way to 90+% parses.

You guys forget that the Goal of Fury is to increase the uptime of Enrage for as long as you can without messing up your priority list. Just spamming Rampage and hitting whatever other filler you want (outside of WW) will NOT Yield the 90+% numbers a high end DPS raider will usually strive for. Yes, if you just spam you can do decent DPS but the difference between just Spamming your abilities vs following the priority list is actually pretty significant.

Just look at your enrage uptime on a dummy for 5 minutes of spamming rampage and then do another dummy test following the Archimitros Guide to the T.

I find Fury too fast right now to the point where it's more difficult to keep up a perfect rotation while being fully aware of everything around me. With enough practice I'm sure it'll become second nature but Legion Fury was a lot simpler to me.

Which guide be that?

[Deleted]

It feels very very smooth to play (right now) and yes it is simple, but I think there are still a few things you can do to differniate yourself from other warriors if you know the tricks and how to optimize rage, enrage, etc. It's also not like T21 single target was difficult either. You built up rage for rampage by hitting things that were off cd, for the most part just like the prepatch. The BC 2 ticks into rampage trick is about the only 'special trick' I can think of. I don't mind a simpler gameplay if it's smooth. It's also all about how you perform under pressure during encounters, anyway.

ST is easier than before the prepatch but, and it might just be me, I feel like the AoE is harder. I already really miss tier 21 AoE with ww -> bc -> rampage -> OF -> spam whirlwind etc. Perhaps the best and most satisfying AoE I've played.

Prepatch AoE feels clunky to me but I know I'm just not totally used to counting the 2 stacks of whirlwind yet. It just doesn't feel that great. Even during reck it's like oh yay I get to put more rampages into these mobs. Give me back OF's and the real damage from BC.

[Bigbazz]

My fury warrior in TBC was by no means ever close to the highest end of the gear spectrum, but the optimal rotation essentially boiled down to slamming my fist down on the 1, 2, and 3 buttons constantly and letting the game decide which of the three abilities, Blodthirst, Whirlwind and Heroic Strike, it was gonna queue up (kind of a moot point considering Heroic Strike was a on-next-attack ability, so it was mostly competing between Bloodthirst and Whirlwind). The difference between doing this and following the "optimal rotation" was next to zilch. And then just spam Execute to your heart's content sub 20%.

The complexity in TBC Fury was mostly in properly gearing yourself with correctly itemized pieces of gear.

Fury in BfA has a simple rotation, but it has a visceral feedback loop that feels good. Yes some people aren't going to like it, but it's one very well polished spec that feels very good for a lot of people.

I was playing TBC last year on a very high pop private server and playing in one of the best guilds on said server (approx BIS for T5 level before I stopped), so I have a fairly intimate recollection of how the spec plays. Fury in TBC wasn't fast so much as it was constantly changing in the moment, one moment could be fast and the next moment could be struggling for rage just to cast a Bloodthirst.

It's not really a high paced spec in TBC, on the contrary for the vast majority of stuff you do in the game it's quite a slow paced spec especially compared to modern WoW where you hit an ability on every GCD and the GCD itself scales with haste. All of the skill in TBC comes down to riding the rage bar (and threat meter) well and being very careful with your HS usage, since it's very unpredictable from moment it can be very engaging but the spec certainly isn't a "trail blazer" by any stretch of the imagination, save for some very specific scenarios.

That said I'm a lover of TBC Fury because of rage management and squeezing every last bit of dps out of it is engaging. The problem I have with Legion Fury is that by and large it feels like I could do 99% without paying any attention, it just feels like I'm pressing buttons that have no meaning or sense of connection, I don't have to think hard about my next move because it isn't important, there is no impactful decision making or any deeper level of complexity above the base rotation. Legion Fury is a lot easier than TBC Fury because of this, even though both are simple at the core.

I think I was thinking of WotLK with my previous post, actually.

And after reading this, I was always under the impression that Stance Dancing for Rend was actually a DPS loss. I did it because I was seeking complexity and I like DoTs.

Stance dancing for Rend was a dps gain if you did it right, the issue came when we started to have the double slam procs with Bloodsurge from the T10 set bonus, by and large you lost a lot of the opportunities to use Rend since a Bloodsurge proc was higher priority than using Rend and you couldn't weave a Rend with a double Slam proc. That meant with the set bonus the risk of losing dps via Rend increased, making it less attractive to do so.

However in an ideal scenario you may have still fitted in 3-4 Rends during a fight (depending on fight length of course), I dropped Rend use personally after I got the set bonus.

[M1r4g3]

It might be fun now but in a few months you're gonna get bored of the mindless button mashing, having diablo level rotations but without the horde of monsters to kill? Yeah its totally going to make you feel good playing it, especially when you realize that no matter what you do you cant get more damage out of your current gear cause of its shallow and limited gameplay.

[Recom]

I see people complaining about the difficulty of basically every iteration of every spec. While I don't disagree, can ask one thing: what kind of difficulty/depth would you like to see? It's easy to complain about a spec but it doesn't really help if you're not giving specifics.

Edit: this is not a troll post or trying to stir up some shit, I'm genuinely curious.

[Bigbazz]

I see people complaining about the difficulty of basically every iteration of every spec. While I don't disagree, can ask one thing: what kind of difficulty/depth would you like to see? It's easy to complain about a spec but it doesn't really help if you're not giving specifics.

Edit: this is not a troll post or trying to stir up some shit, I'm genuinely curious.

Layers of synergy. Arms in Legion was a good example because you had multiple layers, maybe too many at times but the idea is that the player has something to actively think about and meaningful choices to make while playing so that the brain is switched on during gameplay. Also something that creates a layer of friction, and something where choices matter in terms of making the most of "in the moment" opportunities

Frothing Berserker - The way it forced you to reach 100 rage caused friction, anticipation that could create a short window where you might have to make quick decisions to react to dynamic situations within an encounter/dungeon. That friction sometimes caused annoyances for that last 5-10 rage but it sometimes also forced you to react in a way you might not want, by default this forced you to think about what you were doing in the moment. It still exists though marginally watered down, putting Recklessness on the GCD making Reckless Abandon less attractive also contributes by slowing down reactionary cooldown bursts and instead adds friction in the form of a GCD which is out of a players control, so it's not a choice "do I hold or do I wait".

And lets look at Juggernaut in Legion, it was poor because it had infinite stacks the duration was short, without massacre it also felt like it broke the flow of the spec, but what if it had a reworked version with a limited amount of stacks (say 10) or some cross synergy with another ability? What if the old Massacre was baked into the spec, combined with Anger Management baked into the spec to create a feedback loop for the Execute phase and the last 3 talents instead all play into setup opportunities (2 of them already do) in a more static fashion.

It needs some layers, some excitement and some friction. At the moment it's lacking all 3, the spec has too much margin for error and not enough opportunity to really setup, so you play it without having to do much in the moment thinking or choices, which makes it bland. Part of this can be fixed purely by numbers, because if numbers changed the importance of an ability and how you use it also changes, sometimes drastically.

[M1r4g3]

I see people complaining about the difficulty of basically every iteration of every spec. While I don't disagree, can ask one thing: what kind of difficulty/depth would you like to see? It's easy to complain about a spec but it doesn't really help if you're not giving specifics.

Edit: this is not a troll post or trying to stir up some shit, I'm genuinely curious.

Literally any iteration of the spec before legion was fine and had enough complexity/depth to be fun to play throughout the entire xpack not just the first few weeks.

[Grusalugg]

Tried every class, when I was playing fury I felt that rush of blood while I was enraging and smashing. But it also felt dry. Fury was my first choice for main in BFA, sadly not anymore.

[MrMonstrosity]

Fury

Legion: Put too much emphasis on the burst window of Battle Cry. The damage spikes were too much and if a mechanic, latency, or just general bad play messed up that BC window your dps dropped considerably. Execute was also an issue because of Juggernaut stacks and just how much we relied on the Execute phase in general.

Prepatch-BFA: In prepatch the spec is relatively easy to play. It's hard to mess up the rotation(priority) and rage generation is high due to synergy with our legendaries. Enrage uptime due our rage generation allows us to not even think about it most of the time. The execute phase feels really good now with the removal of Juggernaut and Execute having a cooldown.

BFA: At 120 our rotation(priority) slows down a bit compared to what it is currently, but is still pretty fast and easy to follow overall. We'll have slower Rage generation meaning the uptime on Enrage won't nearly be as high as it is right now. This should make timing abilities in the Enrage window or watching our Rage a bit more important overall. The difference between a top performing warrior and an average warrior won't be nearly as big as it was in Legion.

Arms

Arms single-target rotation looks relatively easy and is again based on a priority system. Rage management is more important compared to Fury. If Rend ends up being used in the rotation (cleave/st) it adds a tiny bit more complexity with the overall upkeep. The biggest difference between the top parsing Arms warriors and an average warrior will come down to Sweeping Strike usage and decision making when 2+ targets are present. Things will probably (hopefully) change if they fix our Mastery to not overwrite itself and fix the scaling issues.


Overall I'm really happy with the changes to both specs, especially Fury. I always play both specs, especially if one spec outperforms the other on a specific encounter/tier, and will continue to do so come 120. If Arms gets some changes to it's mastery between now and the release of raids in BFA it's going to be a really hard decision.

One other note, I hope they make Azerite Traits/respeccing a bit more affordable because it's going to suck if it's not realistic to respec Azerite gear for the optimal setup for both specs. It won't feel very good to have 2 or more copies of the same Azerite piece in your bags just to min/max each spec.

[Noctus78]

I guess it's a trade off, complexity vs. very fast (and furious) gameplay.
(disclaimer: haven't played at 120 in beta myself)

[exochaft]

I see people complaining about the difficulty of basically every iteration of every spec. While I don't disagree, can ask one thing: what kind of difficulty/depth would you like to see? It's easy to complain about a spec but it doesn't really help if you're not giving specifics.

Edit: this is not a troll post or trying to stir up some shit, I'm genuinely curious.

Well, here's what Blizz plans to do (and whether it pans out, I couldn't tell you): all specs are bare bones as a baseline, and will return to this baseline every new expansion. For BfA, instead of adding extra talent rows and abilities baseline, Blizz plans to use Azertite gear to alter how a spec plays out via the traits they give. I know a good portion of druid Azerite traits, but I couldn't tell you most of the warrior ones at all, however there may be some traits that alter how you would do your rotation in some way. This new model is basically to combat ability/power bloat that occurs at the end of every expansion.

[Kaver]

In WoW:

1) A simple road to high DPS = Fun

2) People don't like a challenge

[Faildevil]

Tried every class, when I was playing fury I felt that rush of blood while I was enraging and smashing. But it also felt dry. Fury was my first choice for main in BFA, sadly not anymore.

And what is your conclusion?
I ask because it is the same for me. Fury feels super...rushing, pumping, all that kind. But also a bit..shallow.
Not so far away for me like frost DK feels: also "speedy" but...something is missing.
Unholy on the other hand feels a bit so slow und nothing feels like it has an impact.
I fear I will play the same as everytime at the start of a new expansion for about 12 years now: Rogue.

[Super Kami Dende]

In WoW:

1) A simple road to high DPS = Fun

2) People don't like a challenge

Basically the Truth since Vanilla.

[Viking]

Fury is fun for the first time in a long while and people are already QQing and trying to fortell why or when other people will get bored of the spec...

Nothing in this game is difficult to play overall.

If you dislike it, fine. I'm looking forward to maining it though.

[Bigbazz]

Fury is fun for the first time in a long while and people are already QQing and trying to fortell why or when other people will get bored of the spec...

Nothing in this game is difficult to play overall.

If you dislike it, fine. I'm looking forward to maining it though.

It's almost as if fun is a subjective term that differs based on preferences.

[Nzo]

Looking at how fury warriors play now i'm pretty sure you could make a castsequence macro and do top damage, same goes for BM hunters also, without gnome sequencer.

[Steelangel]

For what it's worth, I have only played Arms and Prot all Legion, and picked up Fury at the end just for the Mage Tower, which I got.

Having little experience with Fury, I am enjoying this "mash buttons" style. It's fast and (pun intended) Fury-ous compared with the much more sedate BfA Arms warrior.

[aeuhe4yxzhds]

It's a definite improvement over fury until this point. It flows so well with either FS or WW as your filler depending on talents. A lot of people are overlooking several things though:

-Current legendary items synergy with talents
-Out current 4set
-End of expansion gear giving huge haste/crit

I hope people aren't judging BFA fury on how we play right now, as this isn't even close to an accurate representation. We won't have 35-40% haste and 30%+ crit for quite some times after BFA hits :L

No, we wont have those stats. Thats why its going to be so fucking terrible

[Netharel]

Nothing in this game is difficult to play overall.

wondering if you have tried feral? Performing perfect rotation and executing mechanics at the same time while assigned to a spesific job during raids is like , 0,00001 of the WoW community can do that.