Why would any one play Vanilla ...

[Deleted]

Ill play classic pvp didn't actually suck like bfa or legion which are straight garbage outside of 3v3. You literally do nothing but hit the things that light up.

Watch out, people will mention how "Classes were so unbalanced" "Warriors only had 2 spells to press and they could 1shot people" blabla. Nah I completely agree, pvp is literally garbage right now. Even with its flaws, classic was way better. The imbalance is what makes it fun to me. One time you're getting shit on by a counter, next thing you know you're beating people left and right.

[Guardian Bob]

Outrageously inaccurate, Team Fortress 2 has the entire gear system to set it apart from TF. You can drastically change how your character is played/balanced with different loadouts.

On top of that there are entirely new maps and mechanics from the original. TF didn't even have the concept of the Payload.

The loadouts are new, but mechanically the game plays the same. BfA Paladins are totally different than Vanilla Paladins, and this applies to nearly everything else in the game. Macros change, you don't worry about elemental resistance now, you don't worry about miss or parry. You have difficulty settings for dungeons and raids, and you have transmog. You can queue up to an LFR or LFG and find players from other realms to play with, that you'll likely never see again.

I mean obviously TF2 and CS:GO are going to improve on the older games, but they did improve the games. WoW BfA is like taking 2 steps forward while also taking 3 steps back. Every expansion was like going backwards more than going forward, hence why modern WoW is so differently bad.

Watch out, people will mention how "Classes were so unbalanced" "Warriors only had 2 spells to press and they could 1shot people" blabla. Nah I completely agree, pvp is literally garbage right now. Even with its flaws, classic was way better. The imbalance is what makes it fun to me. One time you're getting shit on by a counter, next thing you know you're beating people left and right.

Vanilla was far from perfect, and we know this. I certainly would have liked to have hybrids be more than a healing class, and more gear in the game to support those roles better. But what Vanilla WoW fails at, it makes up for it in what it does right. There's a sense of community in the game, and skill does matter. You can't be a dick to players cause you can't just pay money and change servers or change your characters name. Raids have ONE difficulty, and nothing else. 40 man raids feel more epic than 25. There's no Diablo 3 like talent system which I hate, and you don't have daily copy and paste quests in the game. More importantly, there's no fucking LFR or LFG system.

If I could make a 1.13 unofficial patch for WoW, I would make hybrids viable in tanking and dps, and introduce arenas and that's it. Actually they did that with the TBC pre-patch, minus arenas since you needed to be in TBC for that. Now that I think about it, there needs to be a private server with a TBC pre-patch for Vanilla and just keep it like that. That would be pretty awesome. But in my head if I could go back and change the evolution of WoW per expansion, I would have kept it very much like Vanilla WoW in spirit.

[Krelian80]

I love how people cannot comprehend how some players would like to be back in Vanilla and 1.12, which had arguably the best features at the time. There's still people playing EVERQUEST of all games even though it looks downright horrible.

There was an aura of mystery to the original WoW that is entirely lost today and I'm not sure Classic can re-capture that, but I'm hoping it will. Nothing like questing in Westfall and looking on the other side of the river into Duskwood and seeing those skull-level spiders and wolves and being scared shitless because you had no idea what was there and you'd die if you went to explore it now. I also miss the epic traveling by gryphon, boat and more, and discovering dungeons.

Being an original Vanilla beta player, there's a side of me that wouldn't mind going back to the simple ways things were, with all the downsides. Not a fan of how things are now, which doesn't make it bad. It's just my preference. I'll still play retail as well regardless but the prospect of slowly gearing up through MC, BWL and AQ to eventually tackle the original Naxx sounds pretty epic to me considering I did it back when it was current and man was it something to be proud of when other guilds were still wiping on C'thun and we were clearing two wings of Naxx.

[micwini]

I will play both probably. Live version to do some 1 hour worth of content to keep up with the story and vanilla the rest of the time.

There are also people who will play ONLY vanilla, because thats the only thing they like. Hell, people still play fucking runescape. To each their own.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

The loadouts are new, but mechanically the game plays the same. BfA Paladins are totally different than Vanilla Paladins, and this applies to nearly everything else in the game. Macros change, you don't worry about elemental resistance now, you don't worry about miss or parry. You have difficulty settings for dungeons and raids, and you have transmog. You can queue up to an LFR or LFG and find players from other realms to play with, that you'll likely never see again.

I mean obviously TF2 and CS:GO are going to improve on the older games, but they did improve the games. WoW BfA is like taking 2 steps forward while also taking 3 steps back. Every expansion was like going backwards more than going forward, hence why modern WoW is so differently bad.


Vanilla was far from perfect, and we know this. I certainly would have liked to have hybrids be more than a healing class, and more gear in the game to support those roles better. But what Vanilla WoW fails at, it makes up for it in what it does right. There's a sense of community in the game, and skill does matter. You can't be a dick to players cause you can't just pay money and change servers or change your characters name. Raids have ONE difficulty, and nothing else. 40 man raids feel more epic than 25. There's no Diablo 3 like talent system which I hate, and you don't have daily copy and paste quests in the game. More importantly, there's no fucking LFR or LFG system.

If I could make a 1.13 unofficial patch for WoW, I would make hybrids viable in tanking and dps, and introduce arenas and that's it. Actually they did that with the TBC pre-patch, minus arenas since you needed to be in TBC for that. Now that I think about it, there needs to be a private server with a TBC pre-patch for Vanilla and just keep it like that. That would be pretty awesome. But in my head if I could go back and change the evolution of WoW per expansion, I would have kept it very much like Vanilla WoW in spirit.

Hybrid were good in pvp you just need the right items and reagant actually watch vanilla duel with good players.

[Guardian Bob]

Hybrid were good in pvp you just need the right items and reagant actually watch vanilla duel with good players.

That's true, but getting that gear is a pain. My Paladin on Lights Hope has full T2.5 and the Ashbringer, and I wreck people in PvP. But getting there was horrible. I had to heal and I don't find healing fun. Not many guilds will allow you to dps in their raid. Because the truth is, Rets don't do good dps unless you're in Naxx. This is the case for every hybrid. But I do remember back in Vanilla when they did the TBC Pre-Patch, and I loved every moment of destroying players. Until TBC was released and Blizzard nerfed Crusader Strike to a 10 second cool down. Then it sucked again. Also I had to heal a lot in TBC until patch 2.3 I think? Then I got to destroy people in PvP and PvE. Good times.

[Hitei]

Vanilla was far from perfect, and we know this. I certainly would have liked to have hybrids be more than a healing class, and more gear in the game to support those roles better. But what Vanilla WoW fails at, it makes up for it in what it does right. There's a sense of community in the game, and skill does matter. You can't be a dick to players cause you can't just pay money and change servers or change your characters name. Raids have ONE difficulty, and nothing else. 40 man raids feel more epic than 25. There's no Diablo 3 like talent system which I hate, and you don't have daily copy and paste quests in the game. More importantly, there's no fucking LFR or LFG system.

You know that realm transfers were part of Vanilla, right? And also people were assholes all the time, because "muh realm community" did fuck all to deter people being assholes.

[Thimagryn]

The loadouts are new, but mechanically the game plays the same.

Grenades were not implemented in TF2, and were a huge part of TFC's strategy. Grenade jumping with certain classes was gone, left only to the Soldier and partially to the Demoman. Also the Spy had huge changes, being able to go invisible. Medic also no longer poisoned the enemy with a disease that perma-drains life until removed by an ally medic.

The only thing you can say being mechanically the same is being an FPS with classes, which like comparing Warcraft 2 to Starcraft because 'they're mechanically the same'.

TF2 is literally a different game. The changes are more significant than between DOTA2 and DOTA Allstars.

[Guardian Bob]

You know that realm transfers were part of Vanilla, right? And also people were assholes all the time, because "muh realm community" did fuck all to deter people being assholes.

Meant to say instant level whatever depending on expansion. Making a whole new level 60 was a pretty big punishment for anyone who was a ninja looter.

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Grenades were not implemented in TF2, and were a huge part of TFC's strategy. Grenade jumping with certain classes was gone, left only to the Soldier and partially to the Demoman. Also the Spy had huge changes, being able to go invisible. Medic also no longer poisoned the enemy with a disease that perma-drains life until removed by an ally medic.

The only thing you can say being mechanically the same is being an FPS with classes, which like comparing Warcraft 2 to Starcraft because 'they're mechanically the same'.

TF2 is literally a different game. The changes are more significant than between DOTA2 and DOTA Allstars.

Well everyone had a grenade, and I'm going by TF Mod for Quake. Demoman could put down a big explosive while medic's grenade made you dizzy. Someone had a grenade that spit nails all around the room as well. But yes, the game had changes but fundamentally it plays the same. I noticed nothing about how Counter Strike has changed. Also, this is TF2 where you can mod the game. There's already a mod for it called Team Fortress 2 Classic where they put in elements from the original game.

Anyway, the equivalent of what Blizzard has done to WoW is like what Quake could be like in the hands of modern FPS studios. Pretty much like this. Nobody likes this.

[Thimagryn]

Anyway, the equivalent of what Blizzard has done to WoW is like what Quake could be like in the hands of modern FPS studios. Pretty much like this. Nobody likes this.

That's only if you ignore all the people who do like it. We can all make blanket statements like 'No one likes Starcraft anymore, we have better games like Starcraft 2' but I assure you there are people who still like SC for what it is. Same with original quake, or whatever 'terrible game' example of a 90's classic that you can bring up.

[Hitei]

Meant to say instant level whatever depending on expansion. Making a whole new level 60 was a pretty big punishment for anyone who was a ninja looter.

Yeah man, you meant to say "instant level" and instead typed "you can't just pay money and change servers or change your characters name", lol.

No one needed to make a whole new level 60. Realms blacklisting or ostracizing players is a meme, guilds ostracized players who did something to them, and then that player would just go find a new guild that didn't care about the first one's whining, or a friend's guild, assuming that the reason they ninja'd in the first place wasn't because they were poached by another guild and decided to ninja on the way out. Which is why ninja looters were often repeated ninja looters.

[Deleted]

The thing to take from this is that BfA doesn't take skill, while Vanilla does.

MUAHAHAHA, yeah no
Raggy for example takes waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less skill then Mythic Ghuun

[Guardian Bob]

Yeah man, you meant to say "instant level" and instead typed "you can't just pay money and change servers or change your characters name", lol.

No one needed to make a whole new level 60. Realms blacklisting or ostracizing players is a meme, guilds ostracized players who did something to them, and then that player would just go find a new guild that didn't care about the first one's whining, or a friend's guild, assuming that the reason they ninja'd in the first place wasn't because they were poached by another guild and decided to ninja on the way out. Which is why ninja looters were often repeated ninja looters.

There was this one druid who was in some other guild and he was a healer and that guild kicked him out. Mainly because he complained how he should get feral loot and in some raids he was spec feral without telling anyone and he ninja looted in a raid. The guild I was in brought him in and slowly he was ninja looting dungeons with other players, and was giving the guild a bad name. The guild ended up breaking up cause he was involved with the guild leaders and I and other people protested to not raid. Eventually I joined another guild and he was already there and after a while that guild leader knew what he was and never invited him. Months later when he popped his head into the game, the guy pronounced how he was going to start raiding again... and the guild leader booted him immediately.

This was a relatively small realm, but the point is your actions have a lasting effect. You want to be in a progressing guild then you have to be nice to other people. Otherwise make another level 60, get the gear again, and see if this time you can have a bit more empathy than before.

MUAHAHAHA, yeah no
Raggy for example takes waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less skill then Mythic Ghuun

Raiding is not the only aspect of WoW. I'm not going to debate you on Mythic raiding cause I know that there's more responsibility on the players than Vanilla raids. But most people don't do Mythic, cause Mythic is not a requirement to raid. You can do LFR and normal and Heroic if you want. But in terms of just getting around the game, that's a whole different story. They should call Classic WoW the "Prepare To Die edition" cause you will die, very often when leveling a character to 60. Dungeons are much larger and much harder. And of course Raids have ONE difficulty, not many. If your guild can't take down Molten Core, you don't get catch up loot. You Git Gud or you don't Git loot.

[probert]

Here's what appeals to me about Vanilla:

- storylines are lower stakes, bigger world. its not all 'save the universe'
- long, intricate quest lines that took you across many zones and explore the world:
- Black Rock Depths was brutal for casuals, but it was a Gygax-esque living city.
- leveling took ages. people who had alts were incredibly driven people; your main was your character back then.
- class differentiation.
- the world seemed bigger. epic mounts were an incredible grind (and reward)
- gearing took many months just to get to raids, then raiding took many months to get to the next tier. progress was not artifically time gated nor rewarded with catchup gear.
- 40 man raids.

[Mibzo]

Here's what appea- storylines are lower stakes, bigger world. its not all 'save the universe'
- long, intricate quest lines that took you across many zones and explore the world:
- Black Rock Depths was brutal for casuals, but it was a Gygax-esque living city.
- leveling took ages. people who had alts were incredibly driven people; your main was your character back then.
- class differentiation.
- the world seemed bigger. epic mounts were an incredible grind (and reward)
- gearing took many months just to get to raids, then raiding took many months to get to the next tier. progress was not artifically time gated nor rewarded with catchup gear.
- 40 man raids.

So much this! I really enjoy leveling and the leveling aspect of Vanilla was just good! You didn't fly through zones, you needed to make a plan for how you would do the zones and which zones you need to do on the side, to have enough quests etc.

[Tart]

I'm so hyped about it being released. Really, really looking forward to it.

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So much this! I really enjoy leveling and the leveling aspect of Vanilla was just good! You didn't fly through zones, you needed to make a plan for how you would do the zones and which zones you need to do on the side, to have enough quests etc.

Exactly, current retail just feels like everything is at a million mph.

[Deleted]

They should call Classic WoW the "Prepare To Die edition" cause you will die, very often when leveling a character to 60. Dungeons are much larger and much harder. And of course Raids have ONE difficulty, not many.

roflmao.
I have been playing since open beta and you could level to 60 WITHOUT dying alot. its called not beeing bad
and no dungeons where not "harder" take your glasses off.

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progress was not artifically time gated nor rewarded with catchup gear.

zg and t0.5 wants a word with you....no catchup my muse

[Tekkommo]

- Black Rock Depths was brutal for casuals,
- leveling took ages. people who had alts were incredibly driven people; your main was your character back then.
- epic mounts were an incredible grind (and reward)
- gearing took many months just to get to raids, then raiding took many months to get to the next tier. progress was not artifically time gated nor rewarded with catchup gear.

Deleted the points I agree with.

BRD was not hard, at all. Wiping your first time there doesn't make something hard.
Compared to today, sure. Is 5 days played really ages though?
Now you know (well I hope you do) what you're doing, you'll make gold easily.
Months to get pre raid BiS? You can do it easily over a weekend, unless RNG is completely against you, but you'll clear any dungeon easily in crap gear.
Progress will be time gated, we'll start with Ony and MC, then have BWL like, anywhere between 2 and 6 months later, then ZG later. We won't have everything available at once. If you play from launch, you'll be fully Ony and MC geared by the time BWL is out. In some cases you'll be keeping MC and Ony gear over BWL loot.

[Debased]

The thing to take from this is that BfA doesn't take skill, while Vanilla does. BfA confuses players that time = skill, while Vanilla rewards players who use skill. And that pisses off Blizzard cause after a while the skill aspect of WoW was slowly removed in favor of time. It doesn't take skill to log in everyday to do your dailies, while it does take skill to pull more than two trash mobs in Vanilla. Turning off War Mode in BfA to avoid PvP to go about your business doesn't take skill, while running around Felwood looking to herbs while dealing with gankers does take skill. Grouping with players and not being terrible in dungeons takes real skill, while using LFG to get teleported to the dungeon does not.

By BfA, WoW has become so casual that people don't wanna sink their time into a game that doesn't take effort.

Are you serious? Pulling trash and farming herbs takes skill? Besides maybe 40-man raids nothing took more 'skill' in vanilla, even PVP. It took more time and had much tighter gear checks, but that doesn't equate to requiring more skill lol. If you think BFA combat abilities are pruned wait until you see vanilla. BFA isn't the peak of difficulty but I imagine you wouldn't know anyway.

[Loxotron]

MUAHAHAHA, yeah no
Raggy for example takes waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less skill then Mythic Ghuun

Problem that there is 0 incentive to do mythic Ghuun in the first place, with next patch this content will be obsolete while raggy will be valuable pretty much through the entire vanilla, that's the difference, while i do agree that new bosses in wow in mythic are pretty strong but also all the classes have amazing toolkit to deal with them and very little problems of resource managment or agro management compare to vanilla.
Also with this new ilvl scaling system in bfa pretty much even lfr version of Ghuun will produce same items for pvp as mythic one, so point of even trying.