View Poll Results: Rate the movie STAR WARS™: The Rise of Skywalker™

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  • ☆☆☆☆ [0]

    121 19.42%
  • ★☆☆☆ [1]

    94 15.09%
  • ★★☆☆ [2]

    151 24.24%
  • ★★★☆ [3]

    166 26.65%
  • ★★★★ [4]

    91 14.61%
  1. #3041
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Except for the explicit explanation in the film, which you're ignoring, for some reason.

    The same explanation that existed for Anakin, roughly.

    The same principles that were laid out in the Original Trilogy.



    1> Force instincts. Same way Luke could hit a bullseye without targeting computers his first time flying an X-wing. The same way Anakin could take out a droid battle station at age 6, in his first time in a fighter craft.

    2> She has combat training with melee weapons. She's a skilled fighter. Again, this is explicitly established in the film well before she ever touches a lightsaber.



    Vader hadn't been shot in the gut with the equivalent of an anti-materiel rifle. Ren had.

    Luke does not get trained for two years. He has a few days with Obi-Wan, at best. And with Yoda, while there's no clear indication, it could be as little as a day or two. It's more likely a few weeks. It isn't two years. If you're going to allow for a time dilation between what's going on in the Falcon and what's going on on Dagobah, despite the filming, you've got no reason to not make the same assumption with Rey on Ach-To, as compared to what's happening with the 12-hour chase with the fleets.

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    They don't canonically exist, regardless of being part of Legends material.

    Regardless, they don't even contradict my point, there; Revan himself was born to nobodies on the Outer Rim, and wasn't part of some grand genetic line of Force users. Force sensitivity does not require a genetic heritage. It never has.
    anakin still lost and still had training before he did literally anything relevant.
    force instincts? Luke still had training when he did that.
    she had combat training with melee weapons. yeah. to fight against scavengers. not a jedi. not with a lightsaber. you fan boys will make up any excuse in the book. face it, shes a huge mary sue.
    you think luke didn't continue to train with the force over the two years despite no obi wan? go try again. still far more then rey ever got.
    kotor and the entire legends is far more canon then anything disney has given us.
    your right. they don't contradict your point. their offspring do. maybe you should learn something.

    if kotor isn't canon why does disney keep borrowing form it?

  2. #3042
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AceofH View Post
    anakin still lost and still had training before he did literally anything relevant.
    Objectively, obviously false. He saves the day in APM at age 6 without any training.

    force instincts? Luke still had training when he did that.
    Minimal training. And significant mental blocks. These are the same instincts that 6-year old Anakin was tapping into to podrace.

    she had combat training with melee weapons. yeah. to fight against scavengers. not a jedi. not with a lightsaber. you fan boys will make up any excuse in the book. face it, shes a huge mary sue.
    Lightsabers aren't that different from other weapons, in terms of wielding one. That's established time and time again. Nor do they require the Force to effectively use. General Grievous certainly doesn't use the Force, and he uses 4 sabers at a time.

    I'm just not accepting nonsense you make up that is contradicted by the films. I'm not even arguing that Rey is a good character. But you're making up stuff that is flat-out wrong in the Star Wars universe.

    you think luke didn't continue to train with the force over the two years despite no obi wan? go try again. still far more then rey ever got.
    Before Dagobah?

    Yes. I know he didn't, because that's why he goes to Dagobah. He's still incapable of the most basic use of the Force, because of his mental blocks. Literally the entire point of that sequence. You're arguing against the films.

    kotor and the entire legends is far more canon then anything disney has given us.
    That's definitively false. You not liking the canon does not change what's canon.

    your right. they don't contradict your point. their offspring do. maybe you should learn something.
    If you took some time to re-read what I originally wrote, I never said that Force potential can't pass from parents to their kids. You're arguing against something I never said.

    Not surprising, since most of your other points are arguing against stuff the films explicitly stated.

  3. #3043
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Objectively, obviously false. He saves the day in APM at age 6 without any training.



    Minimal training. And significant mental blocks. These are the same instincts that 6-year old Anakin was tapping into to podrace.



    Lightsabers aren't that different from other weapons, in terms of wielding one. That's established time and time again. Nor do they require the Force to effectively use. General Grievous certainly doesn't use the Force, and he uses 4 sabers at a time.

    I'm just not accepting nonsense you make up that is contradicted by the films. I'm not even arguing that Rey is a good character. But you're making up stuff that is flat-out wrong in the Star Wars universe.



    Before Dagobah?

    Yes. I know he didn't, because that's why he goes to Dagobah. He's still incapable of the most basic use of the Force, because of his mental blocks. Literally the entire point of that sequence. You're arguing against the films.



    That's definitively false. You not liking the canon does not change what's canon.



    If you took some time to re-read what I originally wrote, I never said that Force potential can't pass from parents to their kids. You're arguing against something I never said.

    Not surprising, since most of your other points are arguing against stuff the films explicitly stated.
    not with a lightsaber he didn't. and he'd be using his force powers, the ones you're referring too, all his life.

    you mean those same instincts we literally never see rey tap into at all? yeah good try.

    lightsaber fights are very different then other weapons, because of the very nature of them. the ability to deflect ranged attacks, the weight, and the ability to do highly dangerous maneuvers like turning it off to slip inside your opponents guard and then turning it back on to kill them. grevious was trained extensively in the use of a lightsaber and was mostly a friggen robot.

    no - he goes to dagobah to train under a friggen master again. we literally see examples of him using the force before then and learning more in the very canon novel "Heir to the Jedi".

    it is canon because disney literally borrows from it. if Disney is willing to use story elements from Kotor, they in fact make it canon themselves.
    you literally said that the skywalkers were the only family that show force sensitive being passed on. i showed you were wrong.

  4. #3044
    Is anyone gona answer my question? What is Rey weakness to over come in these films? Not talking purely combat. What failing has she displayed that could lead to her downfall? What are the steps she has taken to over come it? What did she learn? What is her story line as a chosen one with powers? So far Poe is the only one with some kind of conssitent story among the good guys i guess, a bad one, but at least there is some kind of thing he has to over come. Finn kinda over came his too fast, now he was just dragged along, killing himself to save others would actually have been 100% on point with his arc, He start his journey running away, then he was about to leave han and rey to run away, his journey finished not running away for himself but dying for others, a heroes journey. Kylo had the most development hes actually a solid character, if only he was in more competent films.
    Last edited by minteK917; 2019-12-08 at 08:05 PM.

  5. #3045
    Quote Originally Posted by Malaky View Post
    Pretty much.

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    Vader wasn't defeated there. Not sure what you're trying to say.
    He was defeated just as much as Kylo was.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    100:1 odds that he wont
    Quote Originally Posted by freefolk View Post
    Okay. I'll stop sharing my views.

  6. #3046
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    He was defeated just as much as Kylo was.
    How is one guy getting pushed off into space the same as one guy getting his face cleaved in a lightsaber duel?

    Even for you this is ridiculous.
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Yes, I think a company should be legally allowed to refuse to serve black people.
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    Right now the left is fact based

  7. #3047
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AceofH View Post
    you mean those same instincts we literally never see rey tap into at all? yeah good try.
    Except for all the times she does and you get angry because there's no way she should be able to do X (except she can use the Force, which was always enough before).

    lightsaber fights are very different then other weapons, because of the very nature of them. the ability to deflect ranged attacks, the weight, and the ability to do highly dangerous maneuvers like turning it off to slip inside your opponents guard and then turning it back on to kill them. grevious was trained extensively in the use of a lightsaber and was mostly a friggen robot.
    This is stuff you're making up. Combat skills translate pretty readily to new weapons. Especially when you've got the Force backing you up.

    This has always been true in Star Wars. Why is it suddenly an issue when it's Rey?

    We don't see Rey deflect blaster bolts at all.

    no - he goes to dagobah to train under a friggen master again. we literally see examples of him using the force before then and learning more in the very canon novel "Heir to the Jedi".
    Haven't read it, but it it's irrelevant; you claimed he'd "trained for two years", but there's only two masters he's trained with; Obi-Wan and Yoda. He trains for a couple days with the first, and maybe a few weeks with the second. Not "two years".

    it is canon because disney literally borrows from it. if Disney is willing to use story elements from Kotor, they in fact make it canon themselves.
    you literally said that the skywalkers were the only family that show force sensitive being passed on. i showed you were wrong.
    That isn't how canon works, no.

    Legends material is non-canon, all of it, definitively. If Disney chooses to re-use something from Legends, that Legends material doesn't become canon, the new version, by Disney, does.

    I was referring to canon, not Legends material.

    You're moving goalposts.

    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    Is anyone gona answer my question? What is Rey weakness to over come in these films? Not talking purely combat. What failing has she displayed that could lead to her downfall? What are the steps she has taken to over come it? What did she learn? What is her story line as a chosen one with powers?
    In order;
    1> She's insecure, has a need for attachment due to feeling abandoned, is impatient, and she leaps without looking. These are all pretty explicitly stated; people claiming she has no flaws are simply not watching the films very closely.

    2> Leaping without looking, easily. In her training with Luke, she reached right out to the Dark Side without any hesitation at all. This is explicitly stated, in dialogue, and there's really no excuse for skipping it. It's important.

    3> None. Yet. And maybe won't. There's another film to go.

    4> She's learned a lot. Seriously, watch the films.

    5> She isn't a "chosen one", in any appreciable sense. Snoke says some stuff about the Force trying to rebalance itself, and she's the incarnation of that, but there isn't any prophecy, and she doesn't have any particularly special "powers" other than access to the Force (which is by no means unique); she's very strong in the Force, but only as much as Kylo Ren. And again, there's another film to go. The story isn't over.

  8. #3048
    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    Is anyone gona answer my question? What is Rey weakness to over come in these films?
    I don't know. What failings did prequel Obi-Wan have to overcome? He's one of the most active and important characters in those movies and yet outside of some token rebukes from Qui-Gon about his inexperience in ep.I, he is consistently portrayed as confident and competent. Pretty sure the only villains in those movies he didn't outright defeat single-handedly were Jango, Dooku, and Palpatine himself...the latter two not even Yoda could take down alone.

    You want me to say that Rey hasn't had much character growth? Sure. Rey hasn't had much character growth. Now tell the class why that makes these movies the worst things ever, despite Finn, Kylo, Luke, and Poe (to some extent) all going through their own changes throughout?

  9. #3049
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AceofH View Post
    kotor and the entire legends is far more canon then anything disney has given us.
    this actually couldn't be more untrue. If your going with old lucus starwars then nothing about his 7 movies and the clone wars cartoon is canon Lucus said he saw all other extended material as another universe.

    kotor isn't canon why does disney keep borrowing form it?
    disney put all of the old canon into "legends" so all of the old republic stuff is told as a story's in the universe by some one some where and they can pick what they want to be true to bring it into the new canon.

  10. #3050
    Question:
    How mAny of you hAve preordered your tickets for Wednesday/Thursday night?
    "You know you that bitch when you cause all this conversation."

  11. #3051
    Herald of the Titans Skayth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    Is anyone gona answer my question? What is Rey weakness to over come in these films? Not talking purely combat. What failing has she displayed that could lead to her downfall? What are the steps she has taken to over come it? What did she learn? What is her story line as a chosen one with powers? So far Poe is the only one with some kind of conssitent story among the good guys i guess, a bad one, but at least there is some kind of thing he has to over come. Finn kinda over came his too fast, now he was just dragged along, killing himself to save others would actually have been 100% on point with his arc, He start his journey running away, then he was about to leave han and rey to run away, his journey finished not running away for himself but dying for others, a heroes journey. Kylo had the most development hes actually a solid character, if only he was in more competent films.
    1 naive and insecure.
    2 fearful of being a nobody but shes grandchildof palpatine, so fearful of being grandchild of the dark side
    3 bad writing

  12. #3052
    Quote Originally Posted by Malaky View Post
    How is one guy getting pushed off into space the same as one guy getting his face cleaved in a lightsaber duel?

    Even for you this is ridiculous.
    Because the scratch on his face didn't end the duel, the ground splitting in two separating them did. You really need to watch the movies if you're going to try to make ridiculous claims like you have been.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    Question:
    How mAny of you hAve preordered your tickets for Wednesday/Thursday night?
    I've had my tickets for the first showing since they went on sale back in October. Gonna spend that entire day watching SW stuff, as I play fallen order, before going to see it.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    100:1 odds that he wont
    Quote Originally Posted by freefolk View Post
    Okay. I'll stop sharing my views.

  13. #3053
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Luke had a few hours of sense training from obi-wan before he was killed genius. The mind probe defense is instinctive and many force-sensitives have displayed that ability in canon. Yoda barely trained Luke at all as he left to fight Vader, and that was after he magically developed force abilities he was never trained in. You’re just pissed it was a girl instead of a boy, admit it.
    1) It takes more than a few hours to travel from one part of the galaxy to another. So you have to adjust your time frame assumptions from the movie to understand how much time Luke and Ben spent together. Also explains why Luke is so tore up about his death, versus Ben being someone he knew for a few hours.

    2) Luke was training with Yoda for a minimum of months, but more likely years. He was training there the entire time the Falcon was flying from the Hoth Solar System to the Bespin Solar System as sub-light speed.

    3) No one cares that Rey is female. Using that argument to defend Rey would make it seem you can think of no logical arguments to explain why she can do what she did.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  14. #3054
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    1) It takes more than a few hours to travel from one part of the galaxy to another. So you have to adjust your time frame assumptions from the movie to understand how much time Luke and Ben spent together. Also explains why Luke is so tore up about his death, versus Ben being someone he knew for a few hours.

    2) Luke was training with Yoda for a minimum of months, but more likely years. He was training there the entire time the Falcon was flying from the Hoth Solar System to the Bespin Solar System as sub-light speed.

    3) No one cares that Rey is female. Using that argument to defend Rey would make it seem you can think of no logical arguments to explain why she can do what she did.
    1) The time it takes from Tattoine to Alderaan is a base of 4 days, the Flacon is faster than that. 2) Luke trained with Yoda for six months. 3) If you say so.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    100:1 odds that he wont
    Quote Originally Posted by freefolk View Post
    Okay. I'll stop sharing my views.

  15. #3055
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post

    3) No one cares that Rey is female. Using that argument to defend Rey would make it seem you can think of no logical arguments to explain why she can do what she did.
    This keeps getting brought up because nearly every single complaint about Rey applies equally to prior main characters in the films, and yet there wasn't any complaint about this stuff before.

    So we look at what's changed, and there's really one obvious difference, and that's why it keeps coming up.

    She has unwarranted talent with the Force, seemingly by birth? So did Anakin.
    She has strength seemingly gifted straight by the Force itself? Ditto Anakin.
    She's a fairly boring character, without much nuance? So was Luke.
    She never fails? This one's just obviously untrue, and thus ignored.
    She has combat skills? Luke did too, and Luke didn't have any training or experience. Neither Obi-Wan nor Yoda taught lightsaber combat, that we see. Rey, on the other hand, was fighting on a fairly regular basis just to survive. Which we are shown.
    Last edited by Endus; 2019-12-09 at 03:58 AM.

  16. #3056
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    This keeps getting brought up because nearly every single complaint about Rey applies equally to prior main characters in the films, and yet there wasn't any complaint about this stuff before.

    So we look at what's changed, and there's really one obvious difference, and that's why it keeps coming up.

    She has unwarranted talent with the Force, seemingly by birth? So did Anakin.
    She has strength seemingly gifted straight by the Force itself? Ditto Anakin.
    She's a fairly boring character, without much nuance? So was Luke.
    She never fails? This one's just obviously untrue, and thus ignored.
    She has combat skills? Luke did too, and Luke didn't have any training or experience. Neither Obi-Wan nor Yoda taught lightsaber combat, that we see. Rey, on the other hand, was fighting on a fairly regular basis just to survive. Which we are shown.
    We most assuredly see Luke getting basic saber training on the way to Alderaan. That’s the whole part where he’s told to blindfold himself to deflect incoming attacks. Still isn’t the same as Rey defending herself on the streets of Jakku though.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    100:1 odds that he wont
    Quote Originally Posted by freefolk View Post
    Okay. I'll stop sharing my views.

  17. #3057
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    We most assuredly see Luke getting basic saber training on the way to Alderaan. That’s the whole part where he’s told to blindfold himself to deflect incoming attacks. Still isn’t the same as Rey defending herself on the streets of Jakku though.
    That wasn't combat training. That was sense training. They're really clear about that. It was about opening up to the Force and feeling the world around you.

    You'll note there's no actual "combat" whatsoever. No second saber. Nothing.

  18. #3058
    Quote Originally Posted by Malaky View Post
    Isn't the whole sour grapes metaphor about despising things you can't have?
    Doesn't seem apt here.
    You don't get a Star Wars film to enjoy in theaters, we do. Sour grapes. Not complicated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    Question:
    How mAny of you hAve preordered your tickets for Wednesday/Thursday night?
    I've got mine, looking forward to it!

  19. #3059
    Epic!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    Question:
    How mAny of you hAve preordered your tickets for Wednesday/Thursday night?
    Yup.


  20. #3060
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    After being shot by Chewie which left him pretty seriously injured. It's not like he was at full strength at that point. And he didn't get defeated by Rey, it was a draw as the planet split in two separating them. It's almost like you haven't seen the film.
    After being shot by a bowcaster by Chewie and after killing his father, which he was clearly in emotional distress over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheramoreIsTheBomb View Post
    It is because
    In the beginning, literally in the beginning of the movie as it starts, Leia pregnant with Ben gives him her Lightsaber because her pregnancy interferes with her jedi training and she wants him to train her son. To be just like him, hence the movie name the rise of skywalker. The lightsaber doesn’t show up again until after leia dies during when Rey is trying to find the sith daggers before kylo finds them too massive spoilers for the movie


    The part that pisses me off the most is that
    Kylo dies by getting force pushed into a ditch by Palpatine. NO FIGHT SCENE HE JUST SHOWS UP AFTER BEING REDEEMED BY FORCE GHOST HAN SOLO AFTER THE DEATH STAR FIGHT WEVE SEEN AND GETS THROWN INTO A DITCH. amazing writing!!
    These leaks are so bad that they can't possibly be true. Which is why I've dismissed them for when the movie is actually out.

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