View Poll Results: Rate the movie STAR WARS™: The Rise of Skywalker™

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  • ☆☆☆☆ [0]

    121 19.33%
  • ★☆☆☆ [1]

    94 15.02%
  • ★★☆☆ [2]

    153 24.44%
  • ★★★☆ [3]

    167 26.68%
  • ★★★★ [4]

    91 14.54%
  1. #4161
    The Lightbringer Sanguinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Costanza View Post
    Didnt palpatine want Rey to kill him anyways?
    Yeah but that was before he sucked the life out of them to restore himself so I guess he didn't want her to do it after?! I dunno it made no sense.

    How could both of them by just fine and dandy after getting life-drained or whatever that was anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    It's like people can't think a foot in front of their face, and have no concept of metaphors and themes, and only accept what is outright shown to them on screen/paper/television.
    Except Lucas himself quite literally said to bring balance to the Force meant to get rid of the Dark Side and evil in the universe aka killing Palpatine, destroying the Empire and redeeming himself as a Jedi. So take that pretentious foot and stick it up your ass
    Last edited by Sanguinerd; 2019-12-20 at 04:23 AM.

  2. #4162
    Just saw the movie. Still unsure what to think. There are things I liked and disliked. A few things are for sure.

    -The opening crawl made me feel like we missed A LOT of important information/scenes that they just did not have time to cram in the film
    -JJ tried to ignore as much of The Last Jedi as he possibly could. You can tell he wasn't fond of the way Rian Johnson handled his characters in that film.
    -The first 40 or so minutes have so much scene skipping, it gave me a bit of a headache. Maybe I'll be able to adjust on later watches, but it was very jarring for the first.
    -Of all the characters in this trilogy, Kylo Ren ended up being the most interesting, and I think he was handled very well in this film.
    -I think Snoke was originally supposed to play a larger role.

    So far, I'm sitting at a 7/10 for the film, but it could easily go up or down (kinda leaning towards down?)

  3. #4163
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguinerd View Post
    Yeah but that was before he sucked the life out of them to restore himself so I guess he didn't want her to do it after?! I dunno it made no sense.

    How could both of them by just fine and dandy after getting life-drained or whatever that was anyway.




    Except Lucas himself quite literally said to bring balance to the Force meant to get rid of the Dark Side and evil in the universe aka killing Palpatine, destroying the Empire and redeeming himself as a Jedi. So take that pretentious foot and stick it up your ass
    Yes, and he DID that by having a kid, who he would love, and who wouldn't fall to the Dark Side like he did, and then redeem him. He had already defeated the Dark Side the moment he decided to save his son - the Emperor's death was how he had to do it.

    It's the action, vs. the decision.

    It's literally why, thematically, Vader "falls from grace" in the first fucking place.

    This isn't pretension, this is like, high school literature levels of storytelling.

    Edited to add: Think, for a second. Say Vader never has kids. Say he kills Padme and she dies immediately instead of....slowly languishing away but managing to deliver twins (???? another bad prequel sequence). Does Vader ever bring balance to the Force then?

    Or, say that Luke is born. But Luke never leaves Tatooine, never gets involved. Do you think Vader brings balance to the Force then?

    No, the whole crux of bringing balance to the Force was literally his son's goodness counteracting, and redeeming his evilness.
    Last edited by eschatological; 2019-12-20 at 04:28 AM.

  4. #4164
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I read the full article, I even quoted from it.
    Then your take is extremely disingenous. You even have an example of Kathleen Kennedy discussing how she wanted a heist type movie, thus confirming she had a rough overall vision.
    You have Lord and Miller who says the restraints she put up cripples their creativity, and another person backing that up by saying she disagreed with everything they did even how they "folded their socks" which is obviously a hyperbole, but descrivew a person trying to micromanage the entire thing.

    You picking up on the clash part and only focusing on that shows extreme bias.

  5. #4165
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Hmmm, I've always taken that to mean "he brought balance to the Force" by bucking the trends of the Jedi, having a child who he still loved even though the Sith demanded otherwise, and that that child would eventually break the cycle of the Sith. IE, Vader brings balance to the Force by falling, and then showing you can be redeemed. And Luke was the agency of his redemption.

    Is this not the standard view of people? Like, I thought that was the basic theme of the OT, which I saw in the 80s as a kid, and that's how I understood it. Do people really think "he brought balance by killing the Emperor"? He could have killed the Emperor in episode 3, what's the point of his whole fall and his whole relationship with Padme then?

    It's like people can't think a foot in front of their face, and have no concept of metaphors and themes, and only accept what is outright shown to them on screen/paper/television.
    It is exceedingly difficult to find a traceable common theme in a series of movies that, in the end, were deliberately made thematically disjointed to please a segment of the fandom who (1) have no appreciation for such things and (2) are incapable of being pleased anyway.

    No meaning, only lore.
    Last edited by Slybak; 2019-12-20 at 04:31 AM.

  6. #4166
    Quote Originally Posted by Slybak View Post
    The people who really hated TLJ didn't want a story. They wanted "lore"
    I hated TLJ and I wanted a story that made sense. So yeah. You are wrong there bud.

  7. #4167
    The Lightbringer Sanguinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Yes, and he DID that by having a kid, who he would love, and who wouldn't fall to the Dark Side like he did, and then redeem him. He had already defeated the Dark Side the moment he decided to save his son - the Emperor's death was how he had to do it.

    It's the action, vs. the decision.

    It's literally why, thematically, Vader "falls from grace" in the first fucking place.

    This isn't pretension, this is like, high school literature levels of storytelling.

    Edited to add: Think, for a second. Say Vader never has kids. Say he kills Padme and she dies immediately instead of....slowly languishing away but managing to deliver twins (???? another bad prequel sequence). Does Vader ever bring balance to the Force then?

    Or, say that Luke is born. But Luke never leaves Tatooine, never gets involved. Do you think Vader brings balance to the Force then?

    No, the whole crux of bringing balance to the Force was literally his son's goodness counteracting, and redeeming his evilness.

    Yes those elements are part of it and sure it's one way to interpret it - but the prophecy doesn't refer to "he had some kids and defied the Jedi"

    But if you prefer it that way, aint anyone gonna stop ya

    Also to add, whatever way you look at it - the entire character arc of Anakin has been ruined either way. Nothing he did mattered, nothing Luke did mattered(save for giving Rey another free light saber and his old X-Wing) and the entire OT might as well not have happened at all. The Empire was not defeated, Palpatine didn't die, there was no balance. He was redeemed for nothing, which is a damn shame.
    Last edited by Sanguinerd; 2019-12-20 at 04:42 AM.

  8. #4168
    Quote Originally Posted by Voidism View Post
    I have barely read the thread and I haven't watched the movie, but giving any movie a 0 seems a bit exaggerated.
    If a movie can get a maximum, it can get a minimum otherwise the scale is broken. I am not saying this movie deserves a minimum score, but "a" movie might.

  9. #4169
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguinerd View Post
    Except Lucas himself quite literally said to bring balance to the Force meant to get rid of the Dark Side and evil in the universe aka killing Palpatine, destroying the Empire and redeeming himself as a Jedi. So take that pretentious foot and stick it up your ass
    lucas seemed to have abandoned that idea in the later years of star wars.

    he made that whole mortis shit in clone wars, with the ones. he also canonized the dathomiri nightsisters, non-sith dark side users.

    suffice to say, destruction of the dark side was always an impossible goal. there are a nearly innumerable number of races throughout the galaxy, and the force exists through out it as well. force sensitives will arise everywhere, unless a race is specifically cut off from the force. the most naturally occurring use of the force is through emotional reaction, and emotionally charged force use is dark side.

    i think darth treia had the right idea, the galaxy would be better off if the force itself were destroyed. but idk if that's possible.
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  10. #4170
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Why would anyone go by fan ratings on RT?
    Which website with am aggregate score and reasonable sample size are you using to refute those numbers?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Nah nah, see... I live by one simple creed: You might catch more flies with honey, but to catch honeys you gotta be fly.

  11. #4171
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Why would anyone go by fan ratings on RT?
    They tend to be more accurate for me then how critics rate things.

  12. #4172
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    No, the whole crux of bringing balance to the Force was literally his son's goodness counteracting, and redeeming his evilness.
    Luke's gambit is ROTJ is that he puts his father in the position of either turning from evil or killing his own son. And there's a striking symmetry in TLJ between Luke and Kylo Ren, except Luke lacks the relationship with his nephew to force him into the same gambit. He can't redeem him, but he can't kill him, and thus he's paralyzed with grief and self-doubt. But in the end he transcends the dilemma, and realizes that its neither his responsibility to redeem or kill his nephew, only that he must stand in his way to stop him from harming others. Suffering becomes purpose.

  13. #4173
    To get the bad taste of Episode 9 out of everyone's mouths, here's the greatest trailer of all Star Wars movies.


  14. #4174
    Quote Originally Posted by Pozz View Post
    Then your take is extremely disingenous. You even have an example of Kathleen Kennedy discussing how she wanted a heist type movie, thus confirming she had a rough overall vision.
    You have Lord and Miller who says the restraints she put up cripples their creativity, and another person backing that up by saying she disagreed with everything they did even how they "folded their socks" which is obviously a hyperbole, but descrivew a person trying to micromanage the entire thing.

    You picking up on the clash part and only focusing on that shows extreme bias.
    There is literally nothing in that article saying "Kathleen Kennedy wanted a heist movie," I had to re-read it to make sure I didn't miss paragraphs or something. What it did say was a partial quote about wanting a heist movie, and then next sentence said "We've talked about Remington..." etc etc, showing this was a creative's decision. You think Kathleen Kennedy has any fucking idea about spaghetti Westerns, and it wasn't Kasdan, who wrote Raiders of the Lost Ark and the Empire Strikes Back? As the EP, she's speaking for the production as a whole, and every conflict in that article seems to be between Kasdan and the directors, and she backed up Kasdan.

    An anonymous source using so much hyperbole, on the directors behalf, sounds like a source from their PR team, and not anyone actually on set. And even the "folding socks" comment, while hyperbole, is not about creative direction, but about how they actually did shit. For example, this article: https://collider.com/han-solo-movie-...ard-star-wars/ Kennedy says,

    "I think these guys are hilarious, but they come from a background of animation and sketch comedy and when you are making these movies you can do that and there’s plenty of room for improvisation, we do that all the time, but it has to be inside of a highly structured process or you can’t get the work done and you can’t move the armies of people to anticipate and have things ready. So, it literally came down to process. Just getting it done… These are really great guys and you know, nobody wanted this to happen. It was just one of those unfortunate things."
    Even Variety has another article on what happened on Solo, instead of the "instant news" scoop article you wrote, which basically just cited instant reactions from both side. Variety's in-depth article looked at other shit: https://variety.com/2018/film/featur...rd-1202817841/, outlining how it was mostly an issue between Kasdan and the directors.

    So what wasn’t working? For screenwriter Lawrence Kasdan, the elder creative statesman of the enterprise whose work on the “Star Wars” series goes back to “The Empire Strikes Back” in 1980, it was an issue of tone on the screen and exactitude on the set.

    “Tone is everything to me. That’s what movies are made of,” Kasdan says. “But this was a very complicated situation. When you go to work in the morning on a ‘Star Wars’ movie, there are thousands of people waiting for you, and you have to be very decisive and very quick about it. When you are making those split-second decisions — and there are a million a day — then you are committing to a certain tone. If the [producers] think that isn’t the tone of the movie, you’re going to have trouble. It may not always end this way, but no one was happy about it. It was agony.”

    Reports suggested Lord and Miller had gone overboard with improvisation, moving farther and farther away from what was on the page. But Kasdan’s son and co-writer Jonathan has a different take.

    “The issues we were having were much more in the bones and practical,” he says. “Chris and Phil did everything they could to make it work, as did we. The questions only became about how to make the movie most efficiently in the time we had to do it.”

    .........

    A crew member who worked on the film under both Lord-Miller and Howard, but declined to be identified because he was not authorized to disclose the information, says Lord and Miller drew Kennedy’s ire for stretching days out with experimentation.

    “I got a lot of overtime [under Lord and Miller], which ultimately was their downfall,” the crew member says. “The first assistant director brokers that with production. He ultimately went to the well one too many times, and Kathleen Kennedy blew up.”

    The crew member also says Howard had a firmer grip on what he wanted and how he wanted to shoot it. Under Howard, one second unit sequence took up half the stage space at Pinewood Studios that it did under Lord and Miller and a fraction of the time, the crew member says.

    “Howard was inseparable from [director of photography] Bradford Young,” says the crew member. “You can totally see the love affair because Howard seemed super invested in how the film looked. Lord and Miller didn’t seem too fussed with that aspect, really.”
    This is literally in her role as EP. Notice it didn't say anything about the creative process of the movie at all, just about the literal making of it.

  15. #4175
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    i think darth treia had the right idea, the galaxy would be better off if the force itself were destroyed. but idk if that's possible.
    Good, nuanced fantasy - i.e. any story where magic or the supernatural is presented as a part of material reality - doesn't shy away from the implicit contradictions that it creates. Yes, magic solves problems, but it also creates problems. As much as KOTOR2 was a bit of a rushed mess, Kreia in this regard was one of the most interesting characters introduced in the secondary canon (and, TBH, more interesting than even a lot of primary canon characters).

  16. #4176
    Quote Originally Posted by Slybak View Post
    Good, nuanced fantasy - i.e. any story where magic or the supernatural is presented as a part of material reality - doesn't shy away from the implicit contradictions that it creates. Yes, magic solves problems, but it also creates problems. As much as KOTOR2 was a bit of a rushed mess, Kreia in this regard was one of the most interesting characters introduced in the secondary canon (and, TBH, more interesting than even a lot of primary canon characters).
    well, she was basically chris avallone's(basically the main writer for kotor 2) inherent distaste for straight up good vs. evil with no shades of grey storytelling(which is what star wars fundamentally was in george lucas' original design) manifest as a character, with the player meant to realize she is wrong by the end of the game. at least, that's how i've seen people sum her up.

    (as a side note, this should legitimately be a law written by the government, that people have to do this before they even attempt to make a movie/game/show/whatever about a universe " In preparation to write Knights of the Old Republic II, lead designer Chris Avellone tried to learn as much about the Star Wars universe as possible. He read many books, guides, modules, and graphic novels, and the Obsidian team also relied on the first Knights of the Old Republic and the original Star Wars films for inspiration.[2]" gives me a lot of respect for this dude.)
    https://imgur.com/FX4poT6

    steve danuser - waifu cringelord

  17. #4177
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldielocks View Post
    There's just as much cringe in TROS, if not more. I remember I just started laughing when Dark Rey hissed at Rey. Fucking hell those monster teeth.
    thats fair i thought they might be going for like a little darth maul rey type of thing with the double sabre and the teeth but yes agree

  18. #4178
    Quote Originally Posted by Slybak View Post
    lmao chow down on this pre-chewed garbage.
    No, it's my genuine believe that The Last Jedi is the worst Star Wars movie. By far. Rose is even more annoying than Jar Jar. And most of the film is pointless. And that lightspeed attack has to be retconed or it would break literally every Battle in Star Wars.

    It's not pre chewed, I watched the movie and that shit was more cringe than anakin/padmes lovestory. Pure garbage with jokes at the wrong times and no name characters left and right.

    I believe that you have to be trolling to state that TLJ was a good movie. Or your taste in films is absolutely horrible and your opinion worthless.


    Quote Originally Posted by ZazuuPriest View Post
    Return of the Jedi is easily the 3rd worst movie in the franchise behind TLJ at 1 and TPM at 2. The cringe factor throughout the entire movie is astronomical
    Aside from the ewoks, is it cringy though? I can't remember one thing about the movie that makes me uncomfortable. The cutesy characters don't speak, the story follows a greater arch, it's straightforward. Sure, it kinda rehashes episode 4 and the special effects are not that flashy but the movie is pretty old by nowadays' standards, so that's acceptable. It brings the series to a worthy end.

  19. #4179
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    No, it's my genuine believe that The Last Jedi is the worst Star Wars movie. By far. Rose is even more annoying than Jar Jar. And most of the film is pointless. And that lightspeed attack has to be retconed or it would break literally every Battle in Star Wars.
    "Less stupid jokes, Rey is learning something at last, no feminist agenda and the movie had a coherent red thread."

    Go outside.

  20. #4180
    The Lightbringer Ahovv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voidism View Post
    I have barely read the thread and I haven't watched the movie, but giving any movie a 0 seems a bit exaggerated.
    Random internet "critics" are usually toxic.

    In before "uh uh but what about the people who rate the movies 10/10, we need to counter that with 0/10"

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