Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Jango was trained and shown to be competent, but then again he was literally ran at and beheaded in 2 seconds by Mace Windo soooooo. Even in the panels its not like Luke had an extended brawl with him, he swaps at a cable, clips Bobba, then Bobba trips and is knocked out by a utility box that is thrown at him. That is the extent of how badass Bobba Fett is.

It is an extended brawl i'm not posting the whole comic here you can find it your self online or pay like 8 bucks for marvel unlimited.

Congrats you described its color, as for breathing, seems more like air is being let out. Again you also have no clue what "bringing it to life" actually fucking entails, it could literally be nothing force related,

again go read the comic your self or take my word on it you just saying no without knowing any thing about it is worthless to me.

that is how petty you are getting defended the bullshit they pull with Rey.

again were talking about luke, this has zero to do with rey.

Because nothing is given in the shit you present, we don't know because some shitty comic author threw some shit on the page. I wont defend the shitty author and say it is good. SO you know what I will give it to you, this is shitty writing, and makes Luke look bad, now you stop defending the bullshit that Rey does as thinking its fine, because from the movies it isn't, and you know what when they produce terrible comics about Rey teleporting planets I will be sure to remember to send them to you.

you wanted material to show that luke was above obi-wan don't be butt hurt that i provided what you asked for just because you were wrong.

You are defending her constantly, I have pointed out that Luke and Anakin had flaws in their story telling, but you had to pull whataboutisms from the fucking comics to defend the Sequel trilogy. All you literally had to say, is you know what, what they did with Rey was pretty fucking bad. However this is X/Y/Z that I enjoyed.

you must have a really bad memory because that's not what happend and it was only a page ago. I rightfully pointed out that the main characters have always done stuff with less training then the masters. you asked me what luke did to show that, i provided you with examples. i didn't bring up any whataboutism i told you how starwars has always been then provided you with examples when you asked for them.

Oh boy sure glad we had those magical books show up that have such amazing information that no one know, how fucking convenient (that word could describe the entire damn movie). Also glad the books were so simple and easy to learn that within a year she could master them. Also the books that you are talking about in TLJ, the same ones that Yoda burned you mean? I will give you I only watched that movie once at release and said fuck watching that again, but I very strongly remember Yoda burning them and saying that it was a bunch of crap anyways (also Rey didn't even look at the books, or if they off screened it like so much crap is being done she saw them for the what 5 days she was with Luke).

ya your memory is shit. rey stole the book in TLJ they make that crystal clear, and before you pull out some bull about how you only saw the movie once so did I and guess what i didn't miss the obvious plot points.

so pretty much your whole post is filled with you being wrong because of your poor memory even with stuff you asked for a page ago.

[Kokolums]

So the prequel trilogy was interesting ideas poorly executed, and the sequel trilogy is bland ideas blandly executed.

The writing for the sequels and prequels are both uninspired. The prequels actually have interesting characters though. Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Palpatine and Grevious are the 4 best characters.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Now I feel sad for the guy. Doesn't look he has stopped acting, SW fans can be rabid though.

I only passingly know about it haven't looked into it at all so i don't know if he was ever in any thing else.

[bledgor]

It is an extended brawl i'm not posting the whole comic here you can find it your self online or pay like 8 bucks for marvel unlimited.

Yah figured you wouldn't point stands.

again were talking about luke, this has zero to do with rey.

No I started with Rey, you brought up Luke/Anakin in whataboutisms. YOU were talking about Luke, I was talking about Rey.

you wanted material to show that luke was above obi-wan don't be butt hurt that i provided what you asked for just because you were wrong.

You didn't, you provided some niche examples of him being a strong Jedi, did you watch 1-3, or read any of the shit about Obi-wan? I get you have a hard on for hating on Luke to prove Rey isn't bullshit, but I'm not buying.

you must have a really bad memory because that's not what happend and it was only a page ago. I rightfully pointed out that the main characters have always done stuff with less training then the masters. you asked me what luke did to show that, i provided you with examples. i didn't bring up any whataboutism i told you how starwars has always been then provided you with examples when you asked for them.

I conceded Anakin, then you had to bring in comic book crap to find some SCRAPS about Luke being over the top, congratulations. How many people you think care/read the comics, because I am talking the prime intake, aka the movies, and to a lesser degree the tv shows. I have completely fine memory, I point out the over the top bullshit of Rey, and you whataboutism in Luke/Anakin badly. Just concede Rey is doing bullshit, it is fine, you can still like the movie, you can still like her character, there can be a flaw. Cause guess what 90% of the fan base will watch the movies and shows, that is it, that is what I care to talk about.

ya your memory is shit. rey stole the book in TLJ they make that crystal clear, and before you pull out some bull about how you only saw the movie once so did I and guess what i didn't miss the obvious plot points.

Honestly don't remember her doing so, and she stole one book, WOW guess that means she knows every force power ever, how convenient! Your defense is shit, your arguing is shit, and I am tired of your whataboutism defense of a shit point.

so pretty much your whole post is filled with you being wrong because of your poor memory even with stuff you asked for a page ago.

No, your defense is some barely cannon comics that have shitty writing with vague overtures of power, compared to the movies which I was discussing (in this thread about the movies). I'm sorry no one book is going to make you able to force pull a ship, then force lightning, then force heal all with barely any actual training from a barely legitimate Jedi (that is being very fucking generous to Leia). It is nearing Anakin is jesus/has no father bad (which no one should defend).

I am done arguing with you, you seem content to overlook bad writing because of some fucking reason I can't fathom, and have to resort to whataboutisms from comics to defend it. I will just add you to the block list of idiots.

[Zaktar]

That the film goes out of its way to sideline and omit Kelly Marie Tran, the only person to receive nastier online treatment than Rian Johnson, sends the ultimate message: if you scream loudly enough, the producers will listen, even if you are screaming racial and misogynistic slurs.

It would have been less blatant if they had just cut the character. The moment where she offers a pitiful excuse for not coming along on the adventure was a thumbs up to the segment of the audience who hated her.

There is a relatively early scene (or maybe late; time loses all meaning in this endless rush of plot) where a crucial clue can only be unlocked by wiping C3PO's memory. At first, that choice is given the gravity it deserves, with the heroes seriously contemplating the existential horror of erasing a companion who has, in his goofy way, been the one constant of this saga. Almost immediately, however, the moment becomes the subject of humor that overrides all drama, a reflexive flinch of considering anything truly dark or troubling in a film supposedly predicated on the possibility of total destruction. This scene epitomizes everything wrong with the movie to me, not only in its tonal cowardice but in the way that a potentially reset C3PO represents the ideal of the Disney era of Star Wars, the possibility to recycle without end, showing someone the exact same thing and hoping they will react as if they've never seen it before.

I'm not sure what the point of giving Threepio a heroic sacrifice moment was at all, since he just had his memory restored later down the line. It was just mindless popcorn drama.

[Skroe]

Agree with some things you said here but why exactly do you think Rogue One is a good movie?

Oh a lot of reasons. Where to begin.

The entire premise of the movie was based around a story that was always there, but we never knew really was. In the opening crawl of ANH:

"It is a period of civil war. Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire. During the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans to the Empire’s ultimate weapon, the DEATH STAR, an armored space station with enough power to destroy an entire planet. "

That is the Battle of Scarif at the end of Rogue One. The EU did the Death Star plan-stealing plot several ways over the years. This story was the best one, and it integrated it deep into the Death Star's creation.

I like how it illustrated the last stages of the Death Star's construction and its testing phase - implicit assumption of ANH was that blowing up Alderaan wasn't its first shot ever. The single-reactor shots were an interesting use of the Death Star, showing it to be a versatile weapon. The visuals relating to it firing (especially it being ominous in the sky) were amazing.

I REALLY liked how it turned into canon that the empire used kyber crystals as the heart of the Death Star's superlaser (in effect, making it a gigantic lightsaber). That fights very poetically with what the Empire and Sith did/do, which is to bastardize and basically rape. In this case, they turned the very heart of the Jedi's weapon to keep the peace (and never to attack), meant to defend life, into the most devastating weapon the galaxy had seen to that point. It was an effective way of showing how completely the Sith/Empire had plundered the Jedi's legacy and destroyed them. It's a kind of spiritual desecration.

I liked how it showed the Rebel Alliance as, well, a fractious barely functioning alliance with competing agendas and uncertain loyalties. The "Alliance" aspect had not been fully explained. I also liked bringing back Bail Organa and Mon Mothma and putting them on Yavin 4 with the rest of alliance leadership. The Battle of Scarif also showed how the Rebel Alliance fleet was decimated (and thus only had some X-wings and Y-Wings in ANH) and it took years to reconstitute it into what we saw in ESB and Return of the Jedi. But it was decimated with purpose - to get the Death Star Plans.

I liked how it paid service to the fact that the Empire was still allowing a kind of fiction to continue concerning governance, which was alluded to in ANH. Specifically how the destruction of Jedah was relayed as a mining accident, that Vader said the Death Star didn't exist, and the entire series of events are kept hidden from the Imperial Senate which still holds some nominal power (that the Death Star supercedes in ANH). This shows that process in motion, with Mon Mothma even looking to a route to negotiations through the Senate that she is still a part of.

I REALLY liked how of all of Star Wars films, this is the most straight-up Rebels vs Imperial Military story we got. We were showed a broadly competent Imperial military and a Rebel alliance that was kind of a mess. Oh and not a Jedi in sight. This was the human war, so to speak, with none of the mysticism. Even the Soundtrack has an "Imperial Suite" theme which is different than the John Williams imperial march, but echoes its fascist tones in its own way. It's a great companion. The Imperial March is the theme of the Empire, the Imperial Suite is the theme of the Imperial military. I say as a whole this is the most "Worlds of Star Wars" movie, which is one reason why I think the Mandalorian is so good. It's taking you to the people who live in the Empire and away from the Jedi/Sith struggle.

I simply adored how it looked. The Original Trilogy was notable for it's "rusted technology" and "used universe" look that the prequel series avoided completely (and intentionally), while TFA, which came out a year before Rogue One, was just very different being 30 years later. This though, took the look of ANH and dialed it up. Dirty Stormtroopers. Tanks covered in mud. Rotting infrastructure. It's another reason why I liked the part of Solo where Han is basically doing World War I trench warfare. They even create a great logic as to why Vader's helmet and suit is different in ANH versus ESB/RotJ. The ANH look (use din Rogue One) what Vader wore when he was out doing enforcement, so to speak. It was his every day ear, built to get dinged up. It's not flashy and polished. The ESB/RotJ look on the other hand is basically the equivalent of his service uniform... a bit more formal and flashier, meant to underline his authority. I like that distinction. I think it creative.


I really enjoyed the ground battle on Scarif. If you didn't know, most of the battles in Star Wars are built to echo battles (and vehicles) in the World Wars and such. The "tropical island" combat of the Battle of Scarif was designed to intentionally echo the Pacific theater of World War II, which Star Wars really didn't touch before. I think it is an extraordinary unique look in all the series.

And lastly, it has the best cast outside of the Original Trilogy. I'm a sucker for hopeless mission / last stand stories where everyone dies in the end (my favorite Halo is Halo Reach for much the same reason). I think everyone acted tremendously well in it and all were very interesting characters... certainly more so than the uninteresting boobs we got in the Sequel Trilogy.

Rogue One had a troubled development, but I think it is easily the best Star Wars movie besides ANH and ESB. And on pure film making metrics, it might be better than even ANH. It's a really good film and a true gem of the saga... and again, a film JJ Abrams never could have made on his best day.

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I'm not sure what the point of giving Threepio a heroic sacrifice moment was at all, since he just had his memory restored later down the line. It was just mindless popcorn drama.

Agreed. That should have been the heroic end of Threepio. It would have been fitting and beautiful. There was never a reason to bring him back, especially since Anthony Daniels has made abundantly clear his interest in retiring from the role.

The fact it wasn't Threepio's crowning moment of sacrifice is because JJ Abrams is a bad director who has no discipline in his filmmaking whatsoever.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Yah figured you wouldn't point stands.

the point that it wasn't an extended brawl doesn't stand when it was in fact an extended brawl.

No I started with Rey, you brought up Luke/Anakin in whataboutisms. YOU were talking about Luke, I was talking about Rey.

i Pointed out that main characters out classing the masters is the norm and gave two examples, you then asked for material to back up my examples and i provided it. that's not whataboutism.

You didn't, you provided some niche examples of him being a decent Jedi, did you watch 1-3, or read any of the shit about Obi-wan? I get you have a hard on for hating on Luke to prove Rey isn't bullshit, but I'm not buying.

where exactly am i hating on luke? I gave you examples of him pre epsiode 5 pre any training doing things obiwan couldn't do rather it be episode 1-3 or any extended obiwan stuff. again this is after YOU asked me to provide material.

I conceded Anakin, then you had to bring in comic book crap to find some SCRAPS about Luke being over the top, congratulations. How many people you think care/read the comics, because I am talking the prime intake, aka the movies, and to a lesser degree the tv shows. I have completely fine memory, I point out the over the top bullshit of Rey, and you whataboutism in Luke/Anakin badly. Just concede Rey is doing bullshit, it is fine, you can still like the movie, you can still like her character, there can be a flaw.

you asked for material i provided, again don't be but hurt that the material that you asked for proves you wrong.



I've also already said a ton of times though out the thread that some of the stuff rey does is bullshit and that i don't like her character. as for the movie it self I didn't like it I just dislike people getting obvious things wrong more. legitimate criticism gets drowned out by people spewing nonsense because they didn't pay attention to the movie's and your a prime example.

Honestly don't remember her doing so, and she stole one book, WOW guess that means she knows every force power ever, how convenient! Your defense is shit, your arguing is shit, and I am tired of your whataboutism defense of a shit point.

you don't know what whataboutism means thats clear as day. you said anakin's arc is ruined because force healing existed, I pointed out that it could be a lost skill to the jedi, you made up some bull that rey knew it magically I pointed out that they had old republic books which were shown in BOTH movies. none of that is whataboutism its just you missing whats right in front of your face.

No, your defense is some barely cannon comics that have shitty writing with vague overtures of power, compared to the movies which I was discussing (in this thread about the movies). I'm sorry no one book is going to make you able to force pull a ship, then force lightning, then force heal all with barely any actual training from a barely legitimate Jedi (that is being very fucking generous to Leia). It is nearing Anakin is jesus/has no father bad (which no one should defend).

worthless strawman. I haven't defended any of the skills rey picked up I soloy pointed out how every main character has worked and gave you material when you asked for it.

I am done arguing with you, you seem content to overlook bad writing because of some fucking reason I can't fathom, and have to resort to whataboutisms from comics to defend it. I will just add you to the block list of idiots.

If your ego is so fragile that you can't accept being wrong go ahead.

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I'm not sure what the point of giving Threepio a heroic sacrifice moment was at all, since he just had his memory restored later down the line. It was just mindless popcorn drama.

The C3PO parts are one of the only two things i liked about the movie. though out the OT hes treated like crap which carry's into these ones but even with all the disregard for him they don't force him into the memory wipe like hes a mindless droid they let him decide on his own and just like every one else in the resistance he knows whats at stake and chooses to give every thing for it.

its not a big thing and sure it leads no where because he gets his memory's back but i found it to be one of the very few well done moments.

[BeepBoo]

The writing for the sequels and prequels are both uninspired. The prequels actually have interesting characters though. Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Palpatine and Grevious are the 4 best characters.

prequels also have a cohesive story that doesn't retcon itself like 100 times.

[Zaktar]

The C3PO parts are one of the only two things i liked about the movie. though out the OT hes treated like crap which carry's into these ones but even with all the disregard for him they don't force him into the memory wipe like hes a mindless droid they let him decide on his own and just like every one else in the resistance he knows whats at stake and chooses to give every thing for it.

its not a big thing and sure it leads no where because he gets his memory's back but i found it to be one of the very few well done moments.

He's still treated like crap. They very briefly take him seriously before going back to normal, and then even the small amount of sacrifice he made was undone. The film basically jerks the character around, "You're making a heroic sacrifice! JK who cares."

Also all of this was basically meaningless, didn't contribute whatsoever to finally reaching the last planet. All that had to happen was Rey had to face and defeat Kylo to take his ship.

Secret dagger protractor had to be the dumbest gimmick in any Star Wars film.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

He's still treated like crap. They very briefly take him seriously before going back to normal, and then even the small amount of sacrifice he made was undone. The film basically jerks the character around, "You're making a heroic sacrifice! JK who cares."

Also all of this was basically meaningless, didn't contribute whatsoever to finally reaching the last planet. All that had to happen was Rey had to face and defeat Kylo to take his ship.

Secret dagger protractor had to be the dumbest gimmick in any Star Wars film.

oh ya its totally meaningless I just like that they let him have a bit character there instead of just being the silly robot.

really just that scene makes me think he had more character then any one other then kylo and chewy in the film as I can't think of any good scenes for poe finn or rey.

[Zaktar]

Sitting here thinking about how dumb that dagger was.

Pardon any errors my memory for detail isn't always great.

So they need the dagger to find the map to SithWorld (seriously it couldn't be Korriban, Dromund Kaas, or any of a number of other worlds?) I can't even remember what the inscription they translated said, but apparently it indicated that they needed to go to Endor, stand some indeterminate distance away from the wreckage of the death star, pull out a secret protractor, compare that to the shape of the wreckage, and it would show where you had to go to find the map.

Who made this dagger, and when? How did anyone know where to stand? Thank goodness the wreckage didn't randomly shift over time.

Maybe I'm missing something or missed something but I laughed out loud at that moment in the film.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Sitting here thinking about how dumb that dagger was.

Pardon any errors my memory for detail isn't always great.

So they need the dagger to find the map to SithWorld (seriously it couldn't be Korriban, Dromund Kaas, or any of a number of other worlds?) I can't even remember what the inscription they translated said, but apparently it indicated that they needed to go to Endor, stand some indeterminate distance away from the wreckage of the death star, pull out a secret protractor, compare that to the shape of the wreckage, and it would show where you had to go to find the map.

Who made this dagger, and when? How did anyone know where to stand? Thank goodness the wreckage didn't randomly shift over time.

Maybe I'm missing something or missed something but I laughed out loud at that moment in the film.

Your not missing any thing the dagger like most of the movie doesn’t make sense and is stupid.

[Skroe]

Sitting here thinking about how dumb that dagger was.

Pardon any errors my memory for detail isn't always great.

So they need the dagger to find the map to SithWorld (seriously it couldn't be Korriban, Dromund Kaas, or any of a number of other worlds?) I can't even remember what the inscription they translated said, but apparently it indicated that they needed to go to Endor, stand some indeterminate distance away from the wreckage of the death star, pull out a secret protractor, compare that to the shape of the wreckage, and it would show where you had to go to find the map.

Who made this dagger, and when? How did anyone know where to stand? Thank goodness the wreckage didn't randomly shift over time.

Maybe I'm missing something or missed something but I laughed out loud at that moment in the film.

It's standard JJ Abrams fare. Appears out of nowhere. They could have made it the point of TLJ and mentioned it in TFA, but that would have required that joke of a director to have something approximating a plan.

Which he never, ever does. And never will.

And yes it absolutely should have been Korriban/Moraband. But that would have also required JJ Abrams to give a shit about what he was working with.



And I kind of died at "secret protractor" lol.

[qwerty123456]

The best thing that can happen is the next trilogy get as far away from the Skywalker saga as possible - either thousands of years in the past or in the future - and don't film a single scene until there is a plan for where they're going to go.

Thus ends the Skywalker saga... 9 movies, two of them good (ESB, ANH), three of them okay (RTJ, RotS, RoS) and four of them an absolute mess (TPM, AotC, TLJ, TFA). Rogue One and Solo remain generally better than most of the movies (especially Rogue One, which is probably the second best movie of the franchise). Of course, the absolute best remains Clone Wars and Rebels.

Can't wait for the Mandalorian episode 8 though, where Abrams stinking talentless claws are nowhere near.

Nah what they should do for the next film is use that de-aging tech on Mark Hamill and have the film take place a couple months or years after Return of the Jedi. The beginning of the film would then show/explain how a small remnant of the Imperial army had drugged and kidnapped Luke. They then force a non Sith/Jedi female alien with special force abilities to make him think he experienced the sequel trilogy as they are trying to brainwash him into going to the dark side and helping rebuild the empire. However he keeps resisting the attempts and never gives in to the dark side in these false realities he experiences. The female alien falls in love with him while she is crafting these illusions for him and eventually works up enough courage to snap him out of it and get them to escape. The rest of the movie is them just trying to escape and defeat the imperials and ends with them doing so.


Then they should do what you said. The sequels need to be retconned out of existence first tho.

[Nerovar]

I am done arguing with you, you seem content to overlook bad writing because of some fucking reason I can't fathom, and have to resort to whataboutisms from comics to defend it. I will just add you to the block list of idiots.

Heh, you thought you had a point about Rey being a bland character with Mary Sue powers but little did you know that actually Star Killer actually pulled a Star Destroyer out of orbit using his force powers so your point is invalid.

On a more serious note, I find this whole "is Rey a Mary Sue" debate a bit tiresome.

Mary Sue/Gary Stu character is a character that accomplishes things other characters with similar (or even more) experience and training struggle with. It doesn't matter if there is an in-universe explanation because we're talking about a writing trope here. You can always make up an in-universe explanation to defend the fact that your character is "overpowered" and skips character growth and progression because of it but that doesn't change the fact that it's just a weird, non-compelling way of writing a character.

Judging by the movies, we see Rey as a character who pulls off remarkable feats, other characters with more training could not pull off and sometimes outright beats them. It doesn't really matter that Kylo was already wounded in his fight against Ren, since it's just a very convenient way to show her master every obstacle presented to her with very little resistance. The function of the fight remains the same whether she beats him in a wounded state or not.

One might say that other characters such as Luke qualify for this as well since he quickly adapts to becoming a starfighter pilot (which he always wanted to be). Sure, we get additional information that he's probably good because "it runs in the family", the force gave him better "reflexes", he got an experienced astro-mech droid in the form of R2-D2, he's had practice with speeders on tatooine but like I said, none of that really matters as those are merely the in-universe explanations for why he's able to perform tasks other people with more training (like Biggs) couldn't pull off. Same thing goes for Anakin in Episode 1.
Fact of the matter remains that from a mere plot perspective, these are "excuses" to make the main character do something he probably shouldn't be able to do.

The difference is that Luke and Anakin get "redeemed" by their later mistakes. Both become arrogant after receiving further training and lose a fight and one of their hands because of it. Furthermore, despite being the literal "chosen one" and being described as very innately powerful with the force, despite everything pointing to him being an incredibly powerful (possible "Mary Sue" type) character, Anakin actually loses to Obi-Wan at the end of RotS and gets crippled and burned to a crisp.

Furthermore we actually see those characters being shaped into Jedi with both Anakin and Luke being trained by Obi-Wan (later Yoda) yet they still never become much stronger than any of the other Jedi we've seen. By the time Rey arrives at Ahch-to and finds Luke, she doesn't really need training anymore. She already got all of the power unlocks by touching Anakin's lightsaber (which seemingly didn't work with Luke in Episode 4). Again, this is a very convenient haphazard solution to skipping actual struggle, character growth and insight (not to mention that visions and flashbacks are horrible devices). It's like they thought that we knew the journey already because we've all seen it with Anakin and Luke and therefor don't need to see it a third time with Rey. Let's just skip it and get to the rewarding part.
She then resists a strong force user who's been trained for years and uses the force for a Jedi mind trick (Luke was able to this in Episode 6 when he was close to finishing his transformation into a Jedi) without even having a real understanding of what she's doing.

Of course there are countless explanations that could be brought forth for Rey being able to do this but as I already mentioned: it doesn't really matter what kinds of contrived in-universe explanations you make up, a character who learns everything more quickly than everyone else and comes out on top every single time is perceived as a "Mary Sue". That's just how she is portrayed. It's a shame because I really like Daisy Ridley (and the rest of the cast) and I wanted this to be good.

Edit: I have to say it got better in the later movies. My criticism is mostly directed at TFA.

Rogue One had a troubled development, but I think it is easily the best Star Wars movie besides ANH and ESB. And on pure film making metrics, it might be better than even ANH. It's a really good film and a true gem of the saga... and again, a film JJ Abrams never could have made on his best day.

It seems like you're mostly infatuated with all the "fan service" (probably the wrong term) and the attention to detail with which it was crafted. I can respect that. It's good in that it expands the universe and adds new things to it that aren't in conflict with existing lore. Personally, I thought the plot of the movie itself was a rather boring and convoluted way to give us more details about what is basically a sidenote. The movie also had too many characters that didn't really go anywhere interesting. It was a very diluted and unfocused piece of cinema. I would never say that it is better than any of the original movies. It just didn't have any emotional impact because I couldn't be invested in these boring characters (which seemingly even the writers didn't care about judging by how they were are killed off).

I really liked the droid though (and Death Troopers look pretty badass).

[Zaktar]

On a more serious note, I find this whole "is Rey a Mary Sue" debate a bit tiresome.

Doesn't seem like you found it that tiresome, based on the multi-paragraph essay on the subject which rehashed the same points which have been discussed ad nauseam.

[Nerovar]

Doesn't seem like you found it that tiresome, based on the multi-paragraph essay on the subject which rehashed the same points which have been discussed ad nauseam.

Thanks for your input.

[Zaktar]

Thanks for your input.

Happy to provide an example of what it looks like when someone actually finds this discussion tiresome.

[Relikk]

Oh a lot of reasons. Where to begin.

Great post. Sums up my feelings about Rogue One as well. I love that movie and it's easily the best DisWars movie.

[Ihavewaffles]

The ending should have had Rey destroy Paplantine's physical form and the Jedi from the past (all the voices of Jedi they used, including live action Ashoka and Kanan) show up to drag the immortal spirit of Darth Sidious into the netherworld of the force. Think about it. Yoda, Anakin, Qui'gonn, Obi Wan, Luke, Leia... hell let's throw in Mace Windu too... all to lock away the Final Dark Lord of the Sith forever.

Massive missed opportunity by not doing that. But JJ Abrams is Mr. Missed Opportunity because he has the imagination of a garden gnome and doesn't give a fig about continuity.

Uhm, Ahsoka is still alive, was last seen going off with Sabine Wren & co to go look for Ezra Bridger..I don't know why some still think she's dead..they are somewhere in the outer rim. They need to finish that story, hopefully in live format..

After kathleen kennedy n her merry band of idiots are kicked out of disney forever...

Can't wait for the Mandalorian episode 8 though, where Abrams stinking talentless claws are nowhere near.

Mandalorian's main problem for me is that the quality of the bounty-hunters are sub-par to those from star wars clone wars and -rebels that could give jedi a hard time. Maybe they are just locals, would explain it, and we get more dangerous ones in season 2.

Btw, TLJ director says he wants to direct a season 2 Mandalorian episode..with kathleen kennedy around, anything is possible..