Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[Darththeo]

I suppose you could argue the reverse as to why the Sequels are good. My point is rather that i have yet to hear someone try to explain the grand narrative vision that drives teh sequels that are supposed to carry them. So far i have just heard a bunch of people who like them, which is not wrong or anything, just not really grounds for any deeper discussion.

I think there was a narrative and it got derailed twice. Once by Rian and then by JJ.

I am not saying the sequels are good by any measure, I am just saying the other trilogies have YEARS longer watching them and loving them. For all we know, five to ten years from now people will love the sequels as much as people love the prequels (not likely as much as the OT).

[Sondrelk]

I think there was a narrative and it got derailed twice. Once by Rian and then by JJ.

I am not saying the sequels are good by any measure, I am just saying the other trilogies have YEARS longer watching them and loving them. For all we know, five to ten years from now people will love the sequels as much as people love the prequels (not likely as much as the OT).

We will see. Though i am still skeptical, because the prequels even if the story wasnt that great it would still be different enough from the originals to warrant a certain level of discussion on Lucas' intentions. The Sequels can do the same i suppose, but in my experience stroy discussions predicated on maybes and hindsight tend to not last long.

Overall i am afraid the legacy of the sequels will be their troubled development and lack of innovation. But time will tell. In 10 years the kids who watched it will have had time to compare them to the originals and prequels and hopefully learned a bit about narrative structure, allowing for a thoughtful discussion.

[Nerovar]

I think there was a narrative and it got derailed twice. Once by Rian and then by JJ.

I am not saying the sequels are good by any measure, I am just saying the other trilogies have YEARS longer watching them and loving them. For all we know, five to ten years from now people will love the sequels as much as people love the prequels (not likely as much as the OT).

I think the problem is that the sequels feel like they're nothing more than a soft reboot of the original trilogy. It's hard to be passionate about something that tries so hard to be the simulacrum of something we already know and love. Or to put in other words: in five to ten years from now, when the sequels aren't fresh and shiny anymore why would anyone watch them instead of the originals?

[Theangryone]

The problem with the current trilogy is the lack of a consistent voice throughout all three films. Had all three had the same director or even scripted as a whole from the jump, we wouldn't be arguing nearly as much. I cannot believe with a franchise worth this much that all three movies were not scripted before they even hired directors. JJ fucked these up by not directing all three to begin with and Disney fucked up for letting Johnson try to make TLJ some deep arthouse film. (Sorry Rian, we already knew you didn't have to be rich or a Skywalker to be a Jedi)

The OT had issues of course, mainly from Lucas not thinking he would get more than one movie made and the prequels, for all their faults, at least had a semi coherent storyline and voice. My main issue with them is I never bought Anakin's fall or remotely felt bad for him outside his mother dying.

[Darththeo]

I think the problem is that the sequels feel like they're nothing more than a soft reboot of the original trilogy. It's hard to be passionate about something that tries so hard to be the simulacrum of something we already know and love. Or to put in other words: in five to ten years from now, when the sequels aren't fresh and shiny anymore why would anyone watch them instead of the originals?

No idea. Some may want to watch them to see what happens.

[Dystemper]

While marginally better then Rise of Jedi, it was still a garbage movie. They need to get rid of Kennedy and make Favreau and Filloni the head of SW going forward.

[Darththeo]

Yeah I've said this before, I liked TFA and I like what it setup. It had some great potential. but TLJ did almost nothing to propel the plot forward or really give the characters any more depth which is what the 2nd movie absolutely needs to do. You start learning more about their backstories and what not. What did we learn about Poe? Nothing. What did we learn about Finn? Nothing. What did we learn about Rey? Nothing. Her parents were "nobody" I guess but even that just felt like a slap in the face. Leia was taking a rest after her horribly ridiculous Mary Poppins glide back to the ship so even she got nothing particularly interesting. I liked IX but it definitely could have been a much better movie if it didn't have to do sooo much damage control from the shit show Rian Johnson created. I just don't get the thought process on making a trilogy with no clear direction or plot from movie to movie.

Well, in Finn's defense ... we got all his history we really needed in TFA. He was taken as a child and raised to be a Stormtrooper and was on cleaning detail. What more can you do with that? And we had Finn, Poe and Rey stories in the books that came out prior to TFA ... but that has suffered a retcon already.

The problem with TLJ it was a chase movie for most of it ... the stake is the Resistance ships are being chased by the First Order ... that's it. That can work for something like Mad Max, but not Star Wars. And if you are going to do a chase story ... actually do a chase story.

[Sondrelk]

There's nothing more to explore with Finn if you only base it on what we got. The 2nd movie could have easily started exploring the fact he's also force sensitive and done something with that. He has a lot of anger and fear towards the First Order. Maybe he could have started heading more towards the dark side. Or he could have somehow been involved in trying to find more people willing to defect. I dunno. this is just random quick thoughts so don't attack me lol. My point was, there were options, instead we just got nothing.

Even without that, we could have gotten a flashback to him being kidnapped, or alternatively seen the first order attempt to kidnap more kids to give his kidnapping context.

[Darththeo]

There's nothing more to explore with Finn if you only base it on what we got. The 2nd movie could have easily started exploring the fact he's also force sensitive and done something with that. He has a lot of anger and fear towards the First Order. Maybe he could have started heading more towards the dark side. Or he could have somehow been involved in trying to find more people willing to defect. I dunno. this is just random quick thoughts so don't attack me lol. My point was, there were options, instead we just got nothing.

Oh I agree ... I was just pointing out it seemed humorous that you seemed to be asking for a backstory on a character that we literally knew all major points thus far to his story.

[Darththeo]

Even without that, we could have gotten a flashback to him being kidnapped, or alternatively seen the first order attempt to kidnap more kids to give his kidnapping context.

Well, that then adds to the problem of who is the main protagonist (this is a problem in the prequels too, but not to the same level). Is it Rey or Finn?

Though, they could have worked it into Canto Bight, have a First Order patrol rounding up a few kids, you don't even need to have Finn say anything here, just react. But, Canto Bight was already too long and boiled down with irrelevancy.

[Kokolums]

If audiences turn out to like episode 9, we will get an entire trilogy of Michael Bay films. That's what's at stake.

[Darththeo]

oh yeah I guess I did only say back story, my bad :P I meant flesh the characters out more too, which we pretty much got nada of in TLJ.

Yeah, I agree and no problem. Even Rose who were are supposed to sympathize with through the movie (which I still don't understand why the character needed to exist) had so little explained.

[Kokolums]

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/articl...?ref_=bo_hm_hp

The Rise of Skywalker hauls in $175.5 on its opening weekend.

Definitely on the far low end of projections which were well above $200 million early on, then down to $200 million, then down to $190-$195 million, and only recently some said $165 million.

[Dystemper]

Good Luck with that. The Franchise for all the fandom menace hate of Star Wars under Kennedy been extremely profitable which is all a multinational corporation like Disney really cares about.

Maybe , but they are also very keen on protecting their brand, and she has hurt it quite badly . TROS is looking to make less money than TLJ, that made less than TFA. And then there was the SOLO dibacle. She is notoriously hard to work with, and is not well liked in the industry now . the rumor was that Favraeu and Filloni did the Mandalorian and were told Kennedy would be hands off. My hunch is she "retires" after the new year .

And if the rumors of Iger being furious with her during the first test screening I see that happening

[Miyagie]

If audiences turn out to like episode 9, we will get an entire trilogy of Michael Bay films. That's what's at stake.

But Michael Bay makes awesome movies so its a good thing.

[Clozer]

Great movie. Not sure why Ben had to die, but still amazing. 9/10.

[Darththeo]

Great movie. Not sure why Ben had to die, but still amazing. 9/10.

So they could sell the End of the Skywalker Saga tagline even though it's clearly not.

[Aurrora]

So they could sell the End of the Skywalker Saga tagline even though it's clearly not.

When Rey takes up the name in the next 10 minutes?

[Darththeo]

When Rey takes up the name in the next 10 minutes?

That's my point. They were claiming it an end to the Skywalker Saga and then Rey adopts herself into their family.

[Fixxit the Gnome]

What I find indescribably hilarious is that I've seen people blame Rian Johnson for this movie as well.