View Poll Results: Rate the movie STAR WARS™: The Rise of Skywalker™

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  • ☆☆☆☆ [0]

    121 19.27%
  • ★☆☆☆ [1]

    95 15.13%
  • ★★☆☆ [2]

    154 24.52%
  • ★★★☆ [3]

    167 26.59%
  • ★★★★ [4]

    91 14.49%
  1. #4901
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    After Empire. George's story originally didn't end with RotJ.

    - - - Updated - - -



    She had to kill Palpatine in anger while he was weaken during the prior ceremony. Stupid yes, but explainable.
    Yeah sorry got distracted meant set up in return Luke's sister was supposed appear in 8 and the emperor wasn't originally going to be in flesh until 9.

    Also no that is not a damn explanation. That means she could be serial killer but as long as she isn't raging wouldn't be evil.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by BigToast View Post
    https://www.polygon.com/2017/4/13/15...rs-celebration

    In the above article Lucas reminds us that Star Wars is for 12 year olds and that is the feeling JJ Abrams was able to tap into. If you are a 40 something year old that gets off on pointing out lore issues or Mary Sues or how it doesn't fit with YOUR idea of what The Force Is, then you have a lot to complain about with Rise. If you are able to shut down your brain and just accept what Abrams lays out for you (which is a jump for the adult brain) then you will enjoy it and walk out feeling like a kid again. It may not be the Star Wars you want, but it is the Star Wars that you need.

    That is why TLJ fails also imo. Rian Johnson tried to make a nihilistic art film. Abrams went with Lucas/Speilbergian action schlok, which is what this movie series has been.
    So in other words missing the same thing you need to enjoy baseball a mandatory raised bac.

  2. #4902
    Quote Originally Posted by BigToast View Post
    https://www.polygon.com/2017/4/13/15...rs-celebration

    In the above article Lucas reminds us that Star Wars is for 12 year olds and that is the feeling JJ Abrams was able to tap into. If you are a 40 something year old that gets off on pointing out lore issues or Mary Sues or how it doesn't fit with YOUR idea of what The Force Is, then you have a lot to complain about with Rise. If you are able to shut down your brain and just accept what Abrams lays out for you (which is a jump for the adult brain) then you will enjoy it and walk out feeling like a kid again. It may not be the Star Wars you want, but it is the Star Wars that you need.

    That is why TLJ fails also imo. Rian Johnson tried to make a nihilistic art film. Abrams went with Lucas/Speilbergian action schlok, which is what this movie series has been.
    Seriously?! POLYGON!? That's an SJW access media shill website. It's as objective about news and critiques, as CNN.

    Do you read Kotaku, too?

  3. #4903
    Quote Originally Posted by Sygmar View Post
    Seriously?! POLYGON!? That's an SJW access media shill website. It's as objective about news and critiques, as CNN.

    Do you read Kotaku, too?
    The source is not relevant, the quote is. But for one who uses SJW and shill in the same sentence I don't expect you to understand the meaning.

  4. #4904
    Pit Lord Kontinuum's Avatar
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    Finally my opinion is here!
    Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.

  5. #4905
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Yeah sorry got distracted meant set up in return Luke's sister was supposed appear in 8 and the emperor wasn't originally going to be in flesh until 9.

    Also no that is not a damn explanation. That means she could be serial killer but as long as she isn't raging wouldn't be evil.

    - - - Updated - - -



    So in other words missing the same thing you need to enjoy baseball a mandatory raised bac.
    Essentially, or perhaps some plant medicine.

  6. #4906
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargulf the Happy Husky View Post
    if palpatine was so into cloning why not just clone himself over and over like snoke?

    did his power in the force need a stronger vessel like luke or ben or rey? why couldn't it just be a palpatine clone?

    was palpatine looking at anakin before the unfortunate fire to be a vessel?
    Something tells me (it's a feeling) that you cannot clone force sensitivity in canon - that might be the plot of the Mandalorian. So Palp could clone his body but what is it good for without the Force?
    All right, gentlemen, let's review. The year is 2020 - that's two-zero-two-zero, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of robed sissies.

  7. #4907
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Something tells me (it's a feeling) that you cannot clone force sensitivity in canon - that might be the plot of the Mandalorian. So Palp could clone his body but what is it good for without the Force?
    word. that works for me. but snoke did have the force. maybe the snoke we saw in TLJ was the original?
    No sense crying over spilt beer, unless you're drunk...

  8. #4908
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargulf the Happy Husky View Post
    word. that works for me. but snoke did have the force. maybe the snoke we saw in TLJ was the original?
    We don't know the exact origins of Snoke - maybe all his race is force sensitive or they lucked out - or he was not a clone originally. Also, it could well be the Palp himself acting thru Snoke - force wise. Like a puppet.
    All right, gentlemen, let's review. The year is 2020 - that's two-zero-two-zero, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of robed sissies.

  9. #4909
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    I don't think they needed to use EU as any kind of written in stone bible, but they could have at least taken some queue from it. I like how they did it in the Clone Wars -> Rebels. For example: Thrawn was the same basic character theme, just in a different point in the story.

    Basically, they didn't need to completely throw out and re-write every character so they could dump their own story in. They REALLY should have used the existing material as reference instead of just going completely off the rails.
    I mean that’s exactly what they did/are doing. They changed some stuff like the main cast as the old actors are well old and did a basic reboot into dark empire which is just as stupid as it was in the EU.

    The main question is rather they will do some good stuff next (old republic) or if they will take more nonsense from it.

  10. #4910
    My only major issue is the opening. I really felt like we should have seen the events of this title scrawl. Once the movie got going though, I enjoyed it.

    More minor critiques: Their attempts to assuage complaints about TLJ were pretty on the nose. I think the movie standalone works alright but the trilogy is a mess due to the shift in TLJ and then shifting back here, but the only SW trilogy to really tell a truly cohesive story (however flawed that story was) is the prequels, the original trilogy had issues too. Like it's pretty clear looking at a New Hope Vader wasn't actually Luke's father yet, and Leia being Luke's brother was thrown in to just plug a plot thread they left dangling in ESB when they weren't going to go through with the original plan etc.

    I didn't like the fakeout deaths.

    But all around I enjoyed it. Anything with Paplatine on screen is hammy gold and I can't help but love the evil bastard even if bringing him back wasn't the most creative idea for an overarching villain for the trilogy. I liked Rey and Kylo's scenes, I liked force ghost Luke's moments etc.

  11. #4911
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I don't think it's Rian Johnson's fault. Or JJ Abrams'. I think the problem is that they're not the same director. They had different visions, and did things differently, and it really shows.

    We needed Abrams to do this trilogy, and get Rian Johnson to do the next, or vice versa. It's the swapping back and forth that caused the narrative issues, IMO. Nothing "wrong" with either, it's going back and forth between them. My biggest issue with RoS is probably that it felt like two movies crammed into one. Take the "finding the keystone maguffin" plotline, replace the slow pursuit plotline in TLJ with a longer version of this instead, and you can pad it out enough to make it all come together in, IMO, a more fulfilling way.

    I still think a lot of the complaints people are making are complete nonsense, or can be equally applied to the OT and thus just really boil down to "doesn't actually like Star Wars". There's issues, but RoS is mostly fine. Give one director the reigns for a cohesive trilogy next time.
    The movie didn't make itself. As the directors they are at fault. Obviously they're not the only ones, there's the whole corporate side as well. But when you're a director that has to make a sequel to a movie directed by someone else like Abrams was, you should show some flexibility instead of going full "it's my way or the highway" and sacrifice all the setup of the previous movie on the altar of "subverting the expectations".

    Besides, clashing of visions doesn't account for the plot holes. Including the one giant plot hole that somehow makes for the main plot of the movie. The central plot of TLJ is the plight of the resistance running away from the First Order and their tracking (and how that tracking completely fucked them). That's what the plot of Poe, Holdo, Leia et al revolves around, that's what the journey of Finn and Jar Jar (which is the part that the action focuses on) revolves around. Rey's journey is a bit of a side plot that, when it reaches its culmination for the movie, ties back to the central plot I mentioned above.

    The thing is, at the start of the movie when the Resistance makes the decision to float for 18 hours, they had to do that instead of jumping to hyperspace because they have so little fuel they'd be unable to move after just one jump, making them sitting ducks waiting for slaughter because of that tracking device. Meaning that the fleet had an X amount of fuel that could have been used either for one jump or for 18 hours of floating, with it being made clear that there's only one, shared fuel source for both.

    Which means that Finn's and Jar Jar's journey makes no sense whatsoever. Because their goal was to disable the tracking device of the First Order so that the fleet could jump away in the six minutes time window where the tracking would be offline. Yet by the time they got to the finish line of infiltrating the First Order's flagship, most of that time ran out, to the point that the fleet was running on fumes, with some of the ships having already ran out of fuel. I.e. by the time they infiltrated that ship the fleet had maybe 1% of that X amount of fuel, if even that. Which means they didn't have enough fuel left for the jump and Finn and Jar Jar could have disabled the tracker for six years instead of six minutes and it wouldn't have made any difference.

    But the movie never recognizes it, because Abrams likely didn't even spot the issue here. Not a single character involved - Finn, Jar Jar, Poe, the crew member that helped them out, C3PO - even hiccups about it. As such the viewer is expected to believe that if not for the last minute betrayal of Del Toro's character, the plan would have worked out. But it couldn't have worked out because of basic math. As such, that entire plot, which makes for a huge part of the movie, is completely devoid of tension. That plan was doomed to failure from the get go, regardless of Del Toro, with any obstacle on their path becoming utterly irrelevant. Making it, i.e. the core part of the main plot of the movie, a complete waste of time.
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2019-12-23 at 03:57 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  12. #4912
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeymootwo View Post
    Yeah her character was horrible and annoying. I feel bad for the actress because she got sooo much hate for her role but it’s not her fault :/
    dont think she gets a lot of hate outside basement dweller forums like here but they dont really have any influecne they just spread their salt and depressions around internet forums

    i think she baths in applause and congratulations right now.

  13. #4913
    Quote Originally Posted by Nefarious Tea View Post
    I'll take Palpatine endlessly transferring his consciousness into myriad short-lived clones over the yuuzhan vong.

    And that's a hill I'll fucking die on.
    It's of course a YMMV thing, but for me Yuuzhan Vong arc at least had some moments while the very premise of Palpatine's post mortem adventures was an exercise in redundancy from the get go. Besides, like @Darththeo said, the Vong were made a thing because Luke's new Jedi Order became too powerful in the story. Which it largely did because it had to keep up with endless tales of Palpatine returning even stronger than before. Though of course the general issue of "this character will be even stronger in my story than the previous stories" race of authors constantly one upping one another also applied to the Jedi as well, not just the Emperor.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nefarious Tea View Post
    Also, the hyperspace ram thing (though I admit this has been debated to death) doesn't work normally because planets have gravity and fleets have ships whose primary purpose is generating artificial gravity wells, specifically so you can't jump into hyperspace to do damage like that. Or escape, for that matter; interdictor cruises are canon due to Rebels. It only worked because Hux was as incompetent as he was arrogant and never in a million years suspected a nearly out of fuel star cruiser would just turn around and ram his ship instead of coasting into target practice range like the last two did.
    I didn't see a single Interdictor in Palpatine's fleet of doom. Or even a single gravity well projector. On top of that when Poe (or whoever it was to dismiss the Holdo maneuver in RoS) didn't mention anything of the sort, only something about it being super hard to pull off.


    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    I agree with you on that. The Vong were only introduced because they let Luke's rebuilt Jedi get too powerful so they needed someone to come in and knock them down a few pegs. People praise the EU, but forget how broken a character EU Luke was ... not Superman level broken, but still pretty broken.
    Yeah, I'm not exactly the biggest fan of the Yuuhzan Vong, I simply dislike the adventures of infinite Palpatine even more. In general I find EU material set after the movies to be meh at best with few exceptions, Old Republic stuff was much better.
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2019-12-23 at 03:55 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  14. #4914
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    I mean that’s exactly what they did/are doing. They changed some stuff like the main cast as the old actors are well old and did a basic reboot into dark empire which is just as stupid as it was in the EU.

    The main question is rather they will do some good stuff next (old republic) or if they will take more nonsense from it.
    Uh...what? There's not very much that's recognizable in the movies that has a reflection in the EU. I mean, sure, those of us who have read most of the EU books can stretch some things and make some comparisons, but both KK and JJ basically said they ignored the source material. So whatever similarities there are would seem to be pure coincidence.

    Sorta like what happened with The Last Airbender. Superficially there's some similarities, but when you get down into it the movies are basically nothing like the original material. It's a pretty common theme with Hollywood: Take something that's already popular, make whatever the fuck content you want, slap the popular name on it, cash in. That's more or less exactly what they did with 7-9.

    Disclaimer: At least as far as I can tell, anyway.

  15. #4915
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    The thing is, at the start of the movie when the Resistance makes the decision to float for 18 hours, they had to do that instead of jumping to hyperspace because they have so little fuel they'd be unable to move after just one jump, making them sitting ducks waiting for slaughter because of that tracking device. Meaning that the fleet had an X amount of fuel that could have been used either for one jump or for 18 hours of floating, with it being made clear that there's only one, shared fuel source for both.

    Which means that Finn's and Jar Jar's journey makes no sense whatsoever. Because their goal was to disable the tracking device of the First Order so that the fleet could jump away in the six minutes time window where the tracking would be offline. Yet by the time they got to the finish line of infiltrating the First Order's flagship, most of that time ran out, to the point that the fleet was running on fumes, with some of the ships having already ran out of fuel. I.e. by the time they infiltrated that ship the fleet had maybe 1% of that X amount of fuel, if even that. Which means they didn't have enough fuel left for the jump and Finn and Jar Jar could have disabled the tracker for six years instead of six minutes and it wouldn't have made any difference.

    But the movie never recognizes it, because Abrams likely didn't even spot the issue here. Not a single character involved - Finn, Jar Jar, Poe, the crew member that helped them out, C3PO - even hiccups about it. As such the viewer is expected to believe that if not for the last minute betrayal of Del Toro's character, the plan would have worked out. But it couldn't have worked out because of basic math. As such, that entire plot, which makes for a huge part of the movie, is completely devoid of tension. That plan was doomed to failure from the get go, regardless of Del Toro. Making it, i.e. the core part of the main plot of the movie, a complete waste of time.
    There's a pretty simple point here that you're overlooking, and you're probably gonna feel a bit silly.

    We know the Resistance flagship had fuel for one more jump, even at the very end. Absolutely, 100% confirmed.

    How do we know this? Holdo jumped the ship to Hyperspace. That was the lightspeed ram everyone's been complaining about.

    The simplest explanation is that they probably had the fuel to drift for 18 hours before they got below the level required for one last jump. And that the fuel to coast that long wasn't enough for a second jump; they had 1.5 jumps or something, and half a jump's fuel is enough for 18 hours of sublight, or whatever.

    That the Raddus made that one last jump shows that you're wrong about something, somewhere, in that breakdown, though.

  16. #4916
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Uh...what? There's not very much that's recognizable in the movies that has a reflection in the EU. I mean, sure, those of us who have read most of the EU books can stretch some things and make some comparisons, but both KK and JJ basically said they ignored the source material. So whatever similarities there are would seem to be pure coincidence.

    Sorta like what happened with The Last Airbender. Superficially there's some similarities, but when you get down into it the movies are basically nothing like the original material. It's a pretty common theme with Hollywood: Take something that's already popular, make whatever the fuck content you want, slap the popular name on it, cash in. That's more or less exactly what they did with 7-9.

    Disclaimer: At least as far as I can tell, anyway.

    TFA was a kinda reboot to get us a cast as the old characters to two old. TLJis mostly out of left field but after that they went right into Eu stuff with TROS but with a worse cast.

    If you haven’t read it or don’t remember the dark empire series you should give it a glance a large amount of TROS is right out of it. Though I wouldn’t recommend more then a glance but I hated the series and it kinda tainted my view of the post return EU so Mabye you’ll enjoy it more.

  17. #4917
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There's a pretty simple point here that you're overlooking, and you're probably gonna feel a bit silly.

    We know the Resistance flagship had fuel for one more jump, even at the very end. Absolutely, 100% confirmed.

    How do we know this? Holdo jumped the ship to Hyperspace. That was the lightspeed ram everyone's been complaining about.

    The simplest explanation is that they probably had the fuel to drift for 18 hours before they got below the level required for one last jump. And that the fuel to coast that long wasn't enough for a second jump; they had 1.5 jumps or something, and half a jump's fuel is enough for 18 hours of sublight, or whatever.

    That the Raddus made that one last jump shows that you're wrong about something, somewhere, in that breakdown, though.
    I'm not going to feel silly whatsoever because I rewatched the relevant bit of TLJ before writing my post to make sure. The bit about having enough fuel only for one jump (and getting out of fuel after it) is their initial response to Snoke's fleet getting back on their asses as making the jump was their instinctive reaction. As in, they flat out said they'd be out of fuel after just one jump. Not that they'd be able to float for 18 hours after that jump, but unable to make the second one. "We have enough fuel for just one jump". "If we jump they'll just track us again and we'll be out of fuel". Those are literal quotes from the relevant scene.

    The whole part of 18 hour floating came only 15 minutes later as a response to being unable to jump and having to do something (not only with the fuel but themselves in general) other than letting the First Order just kill them all. As in that 18 hours of drifting was not yet on their radar when they talked about being out of fuel after a jump in the previous scene. So no, they most certainly did not have enough fuel to make the jump AND drift for 18 hours.

    Holdo's nonsense can at best be explained with it being the hyperspace equivalent of a step that wouldn't have changed the Resistance's fate. Or, more likely, with it being yet another plot hole in a sloppy script that paid only cursory attention to the whole fuel bit, where the only thing that mattered was whether it provided some tension and stakes or not (and paid even less attention to Holdo's maneuver, where the only thing that mattered in turn was having a rule of kewl moment).

    Unless you want to tell me that "out of fuel" and "enough fuel for 18 hours of drifting yet not enough for a second jump" mean the same thing in English. In which case, be my guest but personally I'm going to stick to real English rather than that fantasy.
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2019-12-23 at 04:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  18. #4918
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Uh...what? There's not very much that's recognizable in the movies that has a reflection in the EU. I mean, sure, those of us who have read most of the EU books can stretch some things and make some comparisons, but both KK and JJ basically said they ignored the source material. So whatever similarities there are would seem to be pure coincidence.

    Sorta like what happened with The Last Airbender. Superficially there's some similarities, but when you get down into it the movies are basically nothing like the original material. It's a pretty common theme with Hollywood: Take something that's already popular, make whatever the fuck content you want, slap the popular name on it, cash in. That's more or less exactly what they did with 7-9.

    Disclaimer: At least as far as I can tell, anyway.
    TROS is straight-up EU stories. I actually think they did the stories better because I think the EU is a bit of a hot mess. The story was very predictable though considering where they going with some of the canon books. As soon as they had a Sith come back in the Vader comics + more emphasis on the Empire exploring the Unknown Regions it became obvious where the story was going to go.

    I also don't know what interviews you read because it would appear KK and JJ are straight-up lying in them. TROS canonized, if only by name, a bunch of EU stuff. The VD has enough to keep any lore nerd busy for days.

    While we're here, people have to stop complaining about there not being a hard plan for the ST. Not one Star Wars movie was completely pre-planned. They didn't even plan on the OT to be a trilogy and there's even errors between ESB and RotJ because they weren't sure where the story was going to go. Lucas knew how the Prequels would end but a lot of meat he sort just made up/added/removed as he went. Both RO and Solo were changed several times. The franchise never detailed outlines. I would bet the most planned thing SW thing ever done was Rebels and The Mandalorian.

  19. #4919
    Old God I Push Buttons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kontinuum View Post
    Finally my opinion is here!
    "I don't want to say 'if you legitimately like this film, you have a low IQ'... BUT, if you legitimately like this film, you have a low IQ."

  20. #4920
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargulf the Happy Husky View Post
    well thank you for coming around to my side, that's all i wanted
    Got to love this forum, give your opinion about something and suddenly you are enlisted in a "side" of some sort of very special derpy war.

    Your "side" better have blackjack and hookers.
    Pay-2-Win?

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