View Poll Results: Rate the movie STAR WARS™: The Rise of Skywalker™

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  • ☆☆☆☆ [0]

    121 19.30%
  • ★☆☆☆ [1]

    95 15.15%
  • ★★☆☆ [2]

    153 24.40%
  • ★★★☆ [3]

    167 26.63%
  • ★★★★ [4]

    91 14.51%
  1. #5761
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    EU is an old legends term. It doesn't apply to what Disney is doing.
    It's the universe that's expanded off the movies. The old EU was named "legends" to differentiate it from the new EU, which simply means: Star Wars stories that aren't the movies.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
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  2. #5762
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    she said there was no source material and that's true as they are not making movies based on de aging the actors to make the EU canon as it would be impractical/impossible. the fact that there is no comic/novel with the characters they are using doesn't mean they forget every thing about the EU this latest movie had a ton of stuff taken from dark empire but its not like you could make a script based off of dark empire as its not luke liea and han any more.
    No shit they don't have source material if they're trying to write their own original script, that's such a vacuous statement it shouldn't be voiced. They have 40 years worth of novels, there's no reason they couldn't find something in there worth adapting to a movie.

    Doesn't have to be a 1:1 copy of the EU to adapt it, they could have adapted The New Jedi Order or Legacy of the Force and the actors would have been close enough to their appropriate age for those.

    They could have done the Thrawn trilogy animated in the style of Clone Wars/Rebels.

    They also had Lucas's own source material in the story treatment he sold them with Lucasfilm, which they promptly tossed.

    I don't think they even took from Dark Empire for IX. Resurrecting your villain characters is just not that original of an idea, notice how many times Blizzard's done it? I especially don't think they would intentionally take from it as it's considered one of the weakest parts of the EU by fans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    EU is an old legends term. It doesn't apply to what Disney is doing.
    It's not supposed to apply, but we're already seeing the movies retcon lower tier works.

  3. #5763
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    OK, so take that up with Lucas /shrug. He's the one who said it, sitting next to Kennedy in an interview back in 2012 or so when he was selling to Disney. Maybe the fact that he wanted it protected meant he did care...at least a little.
    lucas is rather unreliable so id say going off hes said though out the years is more reliable then a one off statement that he then contradicts by giving them material that would go against the EU for there movies.


    Yeah, that might be right...except the part where both Lucasfilm and JJ alluded to the fact that it would be way way more work to fit a story into the existing universe, both suggesting it would be easier to make competely new events, character's, and a timeline all together.
    from a universe stand point its absolutely more work. form a movie stand point its literally not possible to make a live action movie that lines up with the EU unless they make it totally unconnected form the original actors.

  4. #5764
    The Lightbringer Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurrora View Post
    It's not supposed to apply, but we're already seeing the movies retcon lower tier works.
    The only Retcon that I personally know of is Poe's backstory as he was a New Republic pilot prior to joining the Resistance and his friend(?) implied he left spice running to join the Resistance. It isn't really a retcon per se as Resistance, Rebels and New Republic seem to get mixed up by a lot of people anyway.

    Though, you could argue a Rey's parents' background retcon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    It's the universe that's expanded off the movies. The old EU was named "legends" to differentiate it from the new EU, which simply means: Star Wars stories that aren't the movies.
    Yeah, I know, but Disney doesn't operate Star Wars like that the Legends did. So the term doesn't apply.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  5. #5765
    The Lightbringer Ahovv's Avatar
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    All the 0-star ratings justify the notion that nobody should listen to the toxic "fanbase."

    Anyone who thinks this film is *actually* a 0 or 1 star film does not deserve to have their criticisms heard.

  6. #5766
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurrora View Post
    No shit they don't have source material if they're trying to write their own original script, that's such a vacuous statement it shouldn't be voiced. They have 40 years worth of novels, there's no reason they couldn't find something in there worth adapting to a movie.
    her statement is about the the last movie in the new trilogy you can't say its proof they ignore the EU when the quote isn't about the EU in any way.

    Doesn't have to be a 1:1 copy of the EU to adapt it, they could have adapted The New Jedi Order or Legacy of the Force and the actors would have been close enough to their appropriate age for those.
    that's what they did, they adapted dark empire but with worse cast. as far as doing a different story with the old cast again would be impossible as the actors either wanted out of the series or sadly died.

    They could have done the Thrawn trilogy animated in the style of Clone Wars/Rebels.
    they are still using thrawn so it seems likely that there will be some sort of thrawn trilogy even if its not 1/1.

    They also had Lucas's own source material in the story treatment he sold them with Lucasfilm, which they promptly tossed.
    given how poorly the trilogy turned out i can't say i disagree but Lucas's stuff wasn't EU so its not really relevant to them using the EU or not.

    I don't think they even took from Dark Empire for IX. Resurrecting your villain characters is just not that original of an idea, notice how many times Blizzard's done it? I especially don't think they would intentionally take from it as it's considered one of the weakest parts of the EU by fans.
    I'm not sure how you could think its any thing other then them taking dark empire when they even try and do a soul transfer have a hidden forces ect. I'm not a fan of dark empire so i'm not gonna reread it to see all the stuff they took but tis pretty apparent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahovv View Post
    All the 0-star ratings justify the notion that nobody should listen to the toxic "fanbase."

    Anyone who thinks this film is *actually* a 0 or 1 star film does not deserve to have their criticisms heard.
    the movie is very much so a 1 to me it looks nice but its hollow and brings back elements of the old canon into the new canon its a total wasted opportunity.
    Last edited by Daemos daemonium; 2020-01-01 at 11:45 PM.

  7. #5767
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    The only Retcon that I personally know of is Poe's backstory as he was a New Republic pilot prior to joining the Resistance and his friend(?) implied he left spice running to join the Resistance. It isn't really a retcon per se as Resistance, Rebels and New Republic seem to get mixed up by a lot of people anyway.
    Retconning Leia into having the full Jedi training, she laments never taking Luke up on his offer to train her as a Jedi in Bloodline, and the Visual Dictionary for TLJ states that she didn't become Luke's student because the extended isolation required for Jedi training would take away from her duties as a senator. Even if she's not going to officially act as a Jedi she wouldn't not use her Force powers in life or death situations, especially the ones that come unbidden like sensing danger.


  8. #5768
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahovv View Post
    All the 0-star ratings justify the notion that nobody should listen to the toxic "fanbase."

    Anyone who thinks this film is *actually* a 0 or 1 star film does not deserve to have their criticisms heard.
    Well. There's another toxic hot take by the fandom.

  9. #5769
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    her statement is about the the last movie in the new trilogy you can't say its proof they ignore the EU when the quote isn't about the EU in any way.
    "Every one of these movies is a particularly hard nut to crack. There’s no source material. We don’t have comic books. We don’t have 800-page novels. We don’t have anything other than passionate storytellers who get together and talk about what the next iteration might be." - Kathleen Kennedy

    It's not just about IX, she literally forgot 40 years of literature existed.

  10. #5770
    The Lightbringer Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurrora View Post
    Retconning Leia into having the full Jedi training, she laments never taking Luke up on his offer to train her as a Jedi in Bloodline, and the Visual Dictionary for TLJ states that she didn't become Luke's student because the extended isolation required for Jedi training would take away from her duties as a senator. Even if she's not going to officially act as a Jedi she wouldn't not use her Force powers in life or death situations, especially the ones that come unbidden like sensing danger.

    Could you tell me on what page on Bloodlines you are quoting because I don't recall that line.

    Also, and that is a similar level retcon as the one I listed. Did you read it? "First true students" ... not "First students", that clearly leaves open the possibility of Leia being trained as a Jedi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahovv View Post
    All the 0-star ratings justify the notion that nobody should listen to the toxic "fanbase."

    Anyone who thinks this film is *actually* a 0 or 1 star film does not deserve to have their criticisms heard.
    I rated it 1 star. That is because the scale is 0 to 4. I would have rated 2 star on a five star scale.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  11. #5771
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurrora View Post
    "Every one of these movies is a particularly hard nut to crack. There’s no source material. We don’t have comic books. We don’t have 800-page novels. We don’t have anything other than passionate storytellers who get together and talk about what the next iteration might be." - Kathleen Kennedy

    It's not just about IX, she literally forgot 40 years of literature existed.
    I mean it is about IX as she was asked a question about IX but your right she is talking about all of the new trilogy. but it doesn't change that she's right and there is no source material they could have used as the actors wanted out or died. as far as other media goes they can use post return EU stuff as source material but that's just not an option for the live action movies.

    I mean i guess they could have recast all of the original characters and then taken from the EU but the fan base would have hated that and it would have likely ended the same way with poor movies.
    Last edited by Daemos daemonium; 2020-01-02 at 12:22 AM.

  12. #5772
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Could you tell me on what page on Bloodlines you are quoting because I don't recall that line.
    Sorry, it's been years since I've read Bloodline so I don't remember where it's at in the book.

    Also, and that is a similar level retcon as the one I listed. Did you read it? "First true students" ... not "First students", that clearly leaves open the possibility of Leia being trained as a Jedi
    "However, she ultimately decided that the best path for her to serve the galaxy left no room for the extended isolation of Jedi training." This line precludes her from having all but a crash course in Jedi training, but in TRoS Luke tells us that she had the full training but laid down her saber on the last day of her training due to a force vision.

  13. #5773
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahovv View Post
    All the 0-star ratings justify the notion that nobody should listen to the toxic "fanbase."

    Anyone who thinks this film is *actually* a 0 or 1 star film does not deserve to have their criticisms heard.
    Whose is actually toxic here? The person who says they didnt like the movie and can explain why. Or the person claiming not liking the film makes your opinion invalid?

  14. #5774
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    It's the universe that's expanded off the movies. The old EU was named "legends" to differentiate it from the new EU, which simply means: Star Wars stories that aren't the movies.
    EU was used specifically because it was separate canon from the films. It was renamed legends and EU has gone out of usage.
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  15. #5775
    The Lightbringer Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurrora View Post
    Sorry, it's been years since I've read Bloodline so I don't remember where it's at in the book.



    "However, she ultimately decided that the best path for her to serve the galaxy left no room for the extended isolation of Jedi training." This line precludes her from having all but a crash course in Jedi training, but in TRoS Luke tells us that she had the full training but laid down her saber on the last day of her training due to a force vision.
    Not really, that is how you choose to read it. But, even saying you are 100% correct, that isn't really close to retcons that Legends had. The word "ultimately" to me implies a decent length of time, more than a crash course or at the very least lengthy consideration. So for me, it is definitely open to interpretation.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  16. #5776
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurrora View Post
    "However, she ultimately decided that the best path for her to serve the galaxy left no room for the extended isolation of Jedi training." This line precludes her from having all but a crash course in Jedi training, but in TRoS Luke tells us that she had the full training but laid down her saber on the last day of her training due to a force vision.
    Let's not forget that Luke's goal of ending the Jedi in TLJ is impossible if Leia is fully trained and capable of passing on the knowledge herself. And the title crawl for Episode 7 calling Luke the Last Jedi. Rey (whose only connection to Luke is that she is force sensitive) is sent to find him at the end of TFA, the implication is she is being sent to him for training.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Not really, that is how you choose to read it. But, even saying you are 100% correct, that isn't really close to retcons that Legends had. The word "ultimately" to me implies a decent length of time, more than a crash course or at the very least lengthy consideration. So for me, it is definitely open to interpretation.
    Even going with your interpretation TRoS is a retcon due to it saying she completed her training.

  17. #5777
    The Lightbringer Ahovv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fayolynn View Post
    Whose is actually toxic here? The person who says they didnt like the movie and can explain why. Or the person claiming not liking the film makes your opinion invalid?
    There's a difference between something not being quite your cup of tea and asserting that a movie is actually shit and worse than most other films of the year.

    Also, most of the flaws people point out in this film are inexplicably excused from past Star Wars films, be it nostalgia glasses or sexism. Case in point, all the crying that Rey is a Mary Sue but meanwhile believing the original trilogy with Luke Skywalker was amazing and that his character somehow doesn't suffer the same problem.

    These people aren't wrong because they dislike the movie, they're wrong because they aren't applying their reasoning evenly across the series. They should hate the older films as well but instead those are given free passes.

  18. #5778
    The Lightbringer Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fayolynn View Post

    Even going with your interpretation TRoS is a retcon due to it saying she completed her training.
    Except she didn't. The events shown was her last night of training, nearly completed ... but nearly completed is partially not completed.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  19. #5779
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahovv View Post
    There's a difference between something not being quite your cup of tea and asserting that a movie is actually shit and worse than most other films of the year.

    Also, most of the flaws people point out in this film are inexplicably excused from past Star Wars films, be it nostalgia glasses or sexism. Case in point, all the crying that Rey is a Mary Sue but meanwhile believing the original trilogy with Luke Skywalker was amazing and that his character somehow doesn't suffer the same problem.

    These people aren't wrong because they dislike the movie, they're wrong because they aren't applying their reasoning evenly across the series. They should hate the older films as well but instead those are given free passes.
    And we have accusations of sexism with no proof. What's next on the checklist for played out star wars fan arguments?

  20. #5780
    The Lightbringer Ahovv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dextroden View Post
    And we have accusations of sexism with no proof. What's next on the checklist for played out star wars can arguments?
    If you can't understand why it's sexist to claim Rey is a Mary Sue but that somehow Luke Skywalker doesn't suffer the same writing issues, you might be a sexist.

    If you didn't give a shit when Luke did all sorts of shit with no/minimal training, you're not allowed to suddenly give a shit for Rey (who actually trains more than Luke does in the films).

    All you have to look at is the ending of Episode 4. Dude just magically blows up the death star without proper training. If Rey did that kind of shit you'd be crying about it.

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