View Poll Results: Rate the movie STAR WARS™: The Rise of Skywalker™

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  • ☆☆☆☆ [0]

    121 19.30%
  • ★☆☆☆ [1]

    95 15.15%
  • ★★☆☆ [2]

    153 24.40%
  • ★★★☆ [3]

    167 26.63%
  • ★★★★ [4]

    91 14.51%
  1. #5941
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    It most certainly never heard it used towards Anakin, because "he was the chosen one". I know the outrage around the prequels and they were just as demonstration overblown as the sequels. I have never heard any substation criticism of any male fiction character called a Gary-Stu. It does sound just as dumb as Mary-Sue and someone look to critique a character when they've never even written a book. People want to hold their version of Star Wars they like to a lower standard than that of the ones they don't like. It is rose colored glasses as all of the trilogy have plot holes, weren't thoughtfully planned out, and had canonical issues that had to be continually expanded upon.

    People can cherry pick whatever figures they wants, but stock holders, and board at Disney only care about the money. Star Wars is printing Billions of Dollars and with the latest Trilogy,Disney+. Theme Park, and even the latest game was a success right from the start. Disney has indoctrinated a whole new generation of fans ages 8-16 as was always planned with all Star Wars since the original.
    Chosen one doesn't excuse people from that. Harry Potter was the "chosen one" and still had a large number of struggles. Chosen one doesn't mean you are just a god. Disney likely still hasn't made back their initial investment you realize that right?

  2. #5942
    The Insane Underverse's Avatar
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    Easily the worst movie I've seen this year. Abrams clearly prioritized a lightshow over anything resembling logic or a tenable plot. Just some points off the top of my head:

    - Characters were extremely one-dimensional, other than Kylo and Ren who were great for the most part
    - Liberal use of force powers in ways that don't really make sense; telepathic bead stealing? Life transfer?
    - Rey clearly had quest helper. How many times did she get a distressed look on her face and then just traipse off to some psychically determined location?
    - 'If we don't succeed at this mission, everything we fought for will be for nothing' an eye-rolling example of how you really should show and not tell the audience key plot points - made worse by the fact that this phrase was repeated 4 or 5 times
    - Random fleet of dozens of star destroyers equipped with death star weapons that...can be destroyed by a single fighter because who needs failsafes?
    - Emperor dies to lightning after a soliloquy repeatedly expounding on his motives. Another example of telling and not showing, plus lightning fail again...why would he even use that against someone armed with a lightsaber?
    - Rey gets a yellow lightsaber? Might have missed this, but I'm not sure where this came from
    - Kylo life transferring into Rey was probably the worst ending for this arc I could have tried to imagine. People in the theater actually laughed when this happened

  3. #5943
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Hello, double standards.

    1> Rey beats Kylo, barely, when Kylo is already seriously injured and bleeding out before they even cross sabers. And he wasn't a "Jedi Master"; Snoke considered him an apprentice. Rey lost her first fight with Kylo, when he wasn't injured, and it wasn't even remotely close; she was completely helpless against him.

    2> Luke doesn't "get beat" by a remote. It's a training device. Him getting zapped isn't functionally different than when Rey snipped the wrong wire and released the monsters on Han's freighter.

    3> Luke beats the garbage monster.

    4> Luke also beats the Wampa. Cuts its arm clean off.

    5> Yoda, Vader, and the Emperor are all highly-trained Force users. And Luke beats Vader, in the end, in direct confrontation. Luke also never actually fights Yoda. And he loses to the Emperor. Badly. 100% complete failure.

    You're also ignoring the training Rey recieves both with Luke and with Leia. And that a huge part of Luke's training with Yoda had nothing to do with the Force, and everything to do with getting Luke to stop self-sabotaging and believe in himself. An issue Rey just . . . didn't have to deal with. Because she's not Luke. She's a different character, with different personality and hangups. Like how eagerly she reaches for the Dark Side, without any hesitation, moreso than even Luke ever did.
    1. She wins. Luke never wins outside of maybe the time he is giving into the dark. You can qualify it all you want but she wins Luke ends up being saved or running from every fight

    2. The remotes blasts his butt multiple times and is functionally different because the remote scene are meant to show progression

    3. No he doesn't the garbage compactor turning on does.

    4. And then is out in the cold dying when Han saves him

    5. He really doesn't Vader is holding back and in the end saves Luke yet again Luke's superpower is getting people to easy save him

    6. You are right she isn't Luke she is a trash mary sue character and Luke isn't. Luke isn't necessarily an amazing character but he isn't a mary sue which is the difference.

  4. #5944
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    If that's all Child of Destiny means, it still reflects that Luke has no special characteristics. Han is definitely a Child of Destiny as is Lando and quite a few other folks in Star Wars.

    I have never taken the "New Hope" to mean Luke. IMO, the New Hope everyone gets is from the victory over the Empire in destroying the Death Star giving them hope that the Empire can be defeated.

    As far as various characters declaring other characters as The Chosen One, the story is pretty clear to indicate they are guessing based on the best information they have at the time. However since we can see Rey is the actual one to end Palpatine, then she is the Chosen One who brought balance to the force, unless you subscribe to the theory that "bringing balance to the force" meant trimming down the number of Jedi, since there were only 2 sith. In that case Anakin is often cited to bring balance to the force as he's the one who hunted down and killed the remaining Jedi. In either scenario, it's clear that Luke isn't the One.
    A new hope was just Lucas going 5 years after Star Wars was released going "Oh shit I gave empire the main star wars title I need to add a sub title here." so it's likely no real meaning in that it just sounded good.

    Hell VHS of the originals from mid 90s still considered the first movie to just be called Star Wars as it should be and forever will be /my one purist view.

  5. #5945
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Chosen one doesn't excuse people from that. Harry Potter was the "chosen one" and still had a large number of struggles. Chosen one doesn't mean you are just a god. Disney likely still hasn't made back their initial investment you realize that right?
    According to public figures, they made it back in 2018 and everything has been gravy since. Large Corps such as Disney didn't buy Lucas, Marvel, and Dream Works for billions of dollars for short term profits.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/30/six-...nvestment.html
    The worst part about the internet is that it let the truly crazy, racist, and bigots find each other easily.

  6. #5946
    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    Except at this point, she isn't any of that. Unless you want to throw out any training from Luke and Leia and all the time between the movies. Honestly after "baby Yoda" all this isn't trained with the force so how can they do XYZ non-sense gets thrown out the widow IMHO.
    When do we ever see Rey so exhausted from using her newfound power that she's forced into unconsciousness? Not to mention The Child's over 50 and we have no knowledge of how long he's be learning to flex his force muscles, Rey goes from not knowing the force to battling a trained Jedi to a standstill in a matter of days.

  7. #5947
    It's hilarious that a Mary Sue is now a character who COULD HAVE done it on their own, despite being helped in the actual work of fiction...

    The whirls of the mental loops some people do...
    All right, gentlemen, let's review. The year is 2020 - that's two-zero-two-zero, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of robed sissies.

  8. #5948
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    According to public figures, they made it back in 2018 and everything has been gravy since. Large Corps such as Disney didn't buy Lucas, Marvel, and Dream Works for billions of dollars for short term profits.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/30/six-...nvestment.html
    No they didn't you aren't factoring in costs. Gross of a film is not net. Merchandise is always where Star Wars has made the most and TLJ merch sold worse than AoTC merch. Not to mention how much money they spent making star wars land which is seeing absolute desperation level of push on social media like reddit.

  9. #5949
    I'm pretty late here, I have been trying to see this movie for weeks but I just never had the time until last night.

    Just like the last two movies, or maybe all of the Disney Star Wars movies, this movie was great as a stand-alone science fiction space movie. It was fun in and of itself. But it not only was abysmal as a Star Wars movie, it was abysmal just as a member of its own trilogy.

    I think that trilogy bit is where a lot of this went wrong. I don't think the first movie in this sequence was absolutely fantastic either, but Abrams should not have stepped out from the second movie the way that he did. The way they handled this logistically was downright disrespectful to the IP, and it showed when they made three disjointed movies that each tried to tell a completely different story than the last and each tried to pretend the others didn't exist. It sounds more and more like the guys behind the second movie either weren't told or didn't care what the trilogy's overarching story was going to be, because so many problems here could have been prevented in or altogether stem from that middle sequence.

    What really bugs me is that I'm not a huge Star Wars nerd. I've watched the movies and played some of the more interesting games and that's it. And even I am appalled by how they've stomped on their own canon and storytelling here. I feel bad for the people who have invested lifetimes in being fans of this stuff, because you guys just got a cosmic dump taken on your face.

  10. #5950
    The Lightbringer Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    1. She wins. Luke never wins outside of maybe the time he is giving into the dark. You can qualify it all you want but she wins Luke ends up being saved or running from every fight

    2. The remotes blasts his butt multiple times and is functionally different because the remote scene are meant to show progression

    3. No he doesn't the garbage compactor turning on does.

    4. And then is out in the cold dying when Han saves him

    5. He really doesn't Vader is holding back and in the end saves Luke yet again Luke's superpower is getting people to easy save him

    6. You are right she isn't Luke she is a trash mary sue character and Luke isn't. Luke isn't necessarily an amazing character but he isn't a mary sue which is the difference.
    1. She tapped into the Force ... if you grant Luke using the Dark Side to win, this really shouldn't bother you. It is hypocritical.

    2. I hate when people say "Multiple" when it is 2. It was twice, once before the blast shield, once with the shield. And the rest of this is just your head canon.

    3. And Rey doesn't beat Kylo ... the chasm does. See? Stupid argument is stupid. Luke didn't lose to the dianoga, it runs aways ... he was attack yes, but we have no idea beyond head canon whether or not Luke was going to survive it's attack. He did manage get above surface once, it is possible he could have gotten away. Anything here is pure speculation.

    4. Again, that's speculation.

    5. Vader holding back therefor Luke doesn't win ... but Kylo holding back means Rey wins ... do you not see the hypocrisy in your stance?

    6. You have yet to show remotely how Rey is a Mary Sue and Luke isn't keeping with consistent logic.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    A new hope was just Lucas going 5 years after Star Wars was released going "Oh shit I gave empire the main star wars title I need to add a sub title here." so it's likely no real meaning in that it just sounded good.

    Hell VHS of the originals from mid 90s still considered the first movie to just be called Star Wars as it should be and forever will be /my one purist view.
    4 years at most. Estimates have it as low as a year.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Change...s#Title_change

    Officially, 4 years per Lucasfilm. Just to note, this does leave it open to being earlier, official word doesn't mean it is confirmed.

    And Lucas always wanted a subtitle, but the most he got was to be allowed to called Episode IV ... marketing people didn't want confusion since it was the first movie in the series. At least that is some reports I heard, so who actually knows what really happened.

    Purist view isn't so purist.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2020-01-04 at 02:58 PM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  11. #5951
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    According to public figures, they made it back in 2018 and everything has been gravy since.
    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/30/six-...nvestment.html
    It easy to recover the money if we disregards the expence. From your own link, "The receipts don’t account for the estimated $200 million to $300 million Disney shelled out per film in production costs or the money spent on its robust marketing campaigns to promote each release." or losses ″‘Solo’ still made a lot of money,” Dergarabedian said. “By any other measure ‘Solo’ was a success," Then Solo did LOUSE money....

    Here is a more extensive estimate how financially successful Disney Star Wars is. Be free to disagree if you have some better offical numbers.

    Last edited by Fantomen; 2020-01-04 at 04:20 PM.

  12. #5952
    Quote Originally Posted by Fantomen View Post
    It easy to recover the money if we disregards the expence. From your own link, "The receipts don’t account for the estimated $200 million to $300 million Disney shelled out per film in production costs or the money spent on its robust marketing campaigns to promote each release." or losses ″‘Solo’ still made a lot of money,” Dergarabedian said. “By any other measure ‘Solo’ was a success," Then Solo did LOUSE money....

    Here is a more extensive estimate how financially successful Disney Star Wars is. Be free to disagree if you have some better offical numbers.

    Ah now the numbers guys are going to start showing up. I noticed none of these people wanted to state these numbers before the movie came out. Usually they wait around for 2-3 weeks and then for some reason the numbers they conjure up always are just about where they need to be to make their stories stand. Imagine that working out so perfectly.

    Not saying it was a great movie. Or that the sequel trilogy was that great. But TFA was a huge money maker. Rogue One did really well. Last Jedi got enough butts into seats before word got out to make a lot of money. No one will claim Solo didn't bombed. RoS is still making money so it's not something you can calculate right now unless, of course, you make up a number with some more numbers and concluded what your opinion is with internet made up numbers.

    All of this also doesn't count blue-ray and streaming service contracts that came with each of them. Liencings rights they sold to toy companies. Books. Comics. T-shirts. Ads generated from media sites they own. Or the more daming fact that even if a lot of people put their nose up to SW films this holiday they went and say.. oh.. Frozen.. that went to hook Disney up. Disney+ had like record breaking numbers and a lot of that is because of SW.

    I fucking hate Disney SW. I really do. But I won't sit in a bed of lying shit that the whole Empire is in collapse because the "fandom has spoken" levels of bullshit. It obviously wasn't as strong as it could and should have been. No doubt on that. But it being in the grave and going bankrupt.. lol.. yeah.. right..

  13. #5953
    This is just the best xD

    "The best, Jerry! The best!"
    Last edited by Ihavewaffles; 2020-01-04 at 07:00 PM.

  14. #5954
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    Ah now the numbers guys are going to start showing up. I noticed none of these people wanted to state these numbers before the movie came out. Usually they wait around for 2-3 weeks and then for some reason the numbers they conjure up always are just about where they need to be to make their stories stand. Imagine that working out so perfectly.

    Not saying it was a great movie. Or that the sequel trilogy was that great. But TFA was a huge money maker. Rogue One did really well. Last Jedi got enough butts into seats before word got out to make a lot of money. No one will claim Solo didn't bombed. RoS is still making money so it's not something you can calculate right now unless, of course, you make up a number with some more numbers and concluded what your opinion is with internet made up numbers.

    All of this also doesn't count blue-ray and streaming service contracts that came with each of them. Liencings rights they sold to toy companies. Books. Comics. T-shirts. Ads generated from media sites they own. Or the more daming fact that even if a lot of people put their nose up to SW films this holiday they went and say.. oh.. Frozen.. that went to hook Disney up. Disney+ had like record breaking numbers and a lot of that is because of SW.

    I fucking hate Disney SW. I really do. But I won't sit in a bed of lying shit that the whole Empire is in collapse because the "fandom has spoken" levels of bullshit. It obviously wasn't as strong as it could and should have been. No doubt on that. But it being in the grave and going bankrupt.. lol.. yeah.. right..
    Probably the same people that claimed that Disney bought seats to viewings of Captain Marvel.

  15. #5955
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    I fucking hate Disney SW. I really do. But I won't sit in a bed of lying shit that the whole Empire is in collapse because the "fandom has spoken" levels of bullshit. It obviously wasn't as strong as it could and should have been. No doubt on that. But it being in the grave and going bankrupt.. lol.. yeah.. right..
    They do a lot of math here and include a lot of figures, including some merchandise, but it is definitely true that there's plenty they leave out. They're also including a lot of other things to pad the numbers of Disney still being underwater on Star Wars, primarily by including the initial purchase price of the IP for 4 billion dollars.

    But where we see some of this math really break down is where they use Disney's averaged tax rate in order to trim the earnings. For Disney, it's 34%. But this is lazy (and technically outdated) math. Disney's average effective tax rate while holding the Star Wars IP has been only around 22%. So in one blow they chucked 12% of Disney's profit right out the window.

    But back to the IP thing. If they're going to include the IP purchase price to reflect Disney's Star Wars profitability, they can't also say they're only considering the films toward paying it down. They have to also pay it down with Disney+ subscribers who watched Star Wars IP. They have to pay it down with Disney park revenue, with everything bought in the new Star Wars lands and the increase in park attendance since opening them. LucasFilm is still the beneficiary of royalties and revenues from products made pre-Disney, so Disney earns all of that, too. There are billions, maybe even tens of billions, of dollars in revenue not being accounted for here, because the entirety of the Star Wars IP and the money it brings in is massive.

  16. #5956
    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    All of this also doesn't count blue-ray and streaming service contracts that came with each of them. Liencings rights they sold to toy companies. Books. Comics. T-shirts.
    He do take up merchandise and DVD (do not know if that include blue-ray) Have you better number please share.

    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    Disney+ had like record breaking numbers and a lot of that is because of SW.
    Mandalorian did cost a loot of money... tell me how mutch profit did Disney+ make? ooo forgot that the record number is so impressive that Disney refuse to disclose them, as they was ashame for them....

    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    But I won't sit in a bed of lying shit that the whole Empire is in collapse because the "fandom has spoken" levels of bullshit. It obviously wasn't as strong as it could and should have been. No doubt on that. But it being in the grave and going bankrupt.. lol.. yeah.. right..
    The whole point of the video is to show that Disney Star Wars is still in the red, becuse they did pay 4 billion for the IP. Even if TROS end up doing TLJ numbers (that it will not do) will not change it. Who have ever claimed that Star War will bankrupt Disney? Heads will roll sooner or later becuse after 8 year (that is a very long time in the world of finance) the Lucasfilm investment have not break even yet.

  17. #5957
    Quote Originally Posted by Fantomen View Post
    The whole point of the video is to show that Disney Star Wars is still in the red, becuse they did pay 4 billion for the IP. Even if TROS end up doing TLJ numbers (that it will not do) will not change it. Who have ever claimed that Star War will bankrupt Disney? Heads will roll sooner or later becuse after 8 year (that is a very long time in the world of finance) the Lucasfilm investment have not break even yet.
    I have no doubt Kathleen's contract will not be renewed in her same position. They won't outright fire her though because she is to buddy buddy with all those people and only has a year on the ticket remaining. In fact, I wouldn't doubt if her job is already being done by someone else after the creative direction problems and conflict with directors the franchise has had since she took over. Beyond her and her immediate staffing positions I doubt much more will change. I doubt Bob Iger will fire himself over it. I doubt stockholders in Disney will want his head to roll because its been nothing but sky rocketing for them.

    If 8 years is what it takes to get into the green for a corporate level acquisition than I would say acquisitions themselves are a failure of a business model to follow but for some reason they still happen on the regular. If it was based upon raw bottom line dollars over X amount of time I doubt they would have bought LucasFilm. But it gave them a lot of creative properties that they know hold value for decades to come. Past movies and properties that earn them royalties now and more into the future. I mean Disney also bought Fox Studios and I doubt in 8 years the money they sunk into that will be totally green either. But it gave their streaming platform content to function for decades and more importantly hurt competition in the department.

    With all that said I am not saying it made a ton of money or was wildly a great set of movies. In fact, for the most part, I dislike them. But Disney plays the long game. They aren't sitting around thinking about next year or next quarter. That was taken care of years ago. They are thinking next decade. The following decade. It is why they are and have been huge forever.

  18. #5958
    Movie came out last year

    Art book comes out in Spring...dafuq? Did they hire George RR Martin?...


    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Art-Star-Wa...s%2C164&sr=8-1

  19. #5959
    The Lightbringer Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantomen View Post
    He do take up merchandise and DVD (do not know if that include blue-ray) Have you better number please share.



    Mandalorian did cost a loot of money... tell me how mutch profit did Disney+ make? ooo forgot that the record number is so impressive that Disney refuse to disclose them, as they was ashame for them....



    The whole point of the video is to show that Disney Star Wars is still in the red, becuse they did pay 4 billion for the IP. Even if TROS end up doing TLJ numbers (that it will not do) will not change it. Who have ever claimed that Star War will bankrupt Disney? Heads will roll sooner or later becuse after 8 year (that is a very long time in the world of finance) the Lucasfilm investment have not break even yet.
    Keep in mind, they own everything Star Wars. Books, comics, games, etc ... nothing is produced from Star Wars that Disney doesn't get some money from.
    Finding out how much Money they are making with it is extremely difficult and anyone making a claim they are losing billions of dollars is going to have a very difficult case to prove. And let's just say it isn't going to be someone on the internet.

    They'll have to look into every agreement that Disney has concerning the Star Wars IP and see how much money changed hands.
    Last edited by Darththeo; 2020-01-04 at 07:59 PM.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  20. #5960
    The Insane PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Movie came out last year

    Art book comes out in Spring...dafuq? Did they hire George RR Martin?...


    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Art-Star-Wa...s%2C164&sr=8-1
    I agree that it's stupid but makes sense from a a business standpoint.

    The art book is like a deeper dive of the visual dictionary. Why let impulsive buyers choose one when you can get them to buy both by spreading out the releases? Also have to do the canonical pass because Disney and the fandom is obsessed with merchandise going into the smallest amount of details spread across several sources of material.
    Last edited by PACOX; 2020-01-04 at 08:20 PM.

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