View Poll Results: Rate the movie STAR WARS™: The Rise of Skywalker™

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  • ☆☆☆☆ [0]

    121 19.27%
  • ★☆☆☆ [1]

    95 15.13%
  • ★★☆☆ [2]

    154 24.52%
  • ★★★☆ [3]

    167 26.59%
  • ★★★★ [4]

    91 14.49%
  1. #6081
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    You don’t need to bend over backward to explain it as there is a plausibly expiation and has been for years you not wanting to accept that doesn’t make it go away.
    You just saying that it's plausible doesn't make it so, either. So hey.

    I don't really know what's so hard about just saying that the writers wanted to introduce something new and shiny so they picked this, and that there's no other big explanation or tie-in to existing story. It's perfectly common in all forms of media.

  2. #6082
    I finally saw it, it was a lot better than I expected, but it made no impact, I had already forgotten the movie 30 mins later and the time i spent watching it.

    While I was there, the ride was more enjoyable than previous 2 - but it just felt wrong in so many ways. If i were to put a finger on it, it would they went on the wrong premise to rubbish the progress 4-6 made and kill off all the Skywalkers.

    I so expected Kylo Ren to die, what would have been shocking was if he survived and he didn't. The fact that they kissed and had romantic feeling was a total surprise, as was the fact that Ren was a Palpatine, that was a shocker!

    They spent so many series in other time lines, while they should have done what the prequels did between 2 and 3 and give a series, and this time they had more time to plan so they should have given a series between episode 7, 8 and 9 instead of Rebels and Mandalorian time line setting which comes to late to fill in gaps. But it's not the first time gap filling comes later.

    They forced Leia so much instead of Mark and Harrison, but the force was not with Carrie Fisher (may her soul rest in peace), to me was almost like a sign they backed the wrong horse to survive.

    I would have been fine with Rey as a female hero if they hadn't ditched Luke so badly or in the end not killed Kylo Ren -but the whole basis of 7-9 actually plays more like a mini series set before the real episode 7.


    The last fighting scene was cool, if a bit wtf. The setting the feel, but again disappointed that you see no really high sci-fi futuristic planets or cities, just barren wastelands, deserts, tombs, swamps with a some tech like a small city on an ice cube or a base.. sigh.


    Force powers were much better done this movie, though the cable work in some of the fights was too obvious. Lightsaber action in the duel at the Death star ruins (great scene btw - but again, more ruins) was awful, there seems to be a massive jump in skill when they fight the emperors guards.

    Also too many echoes of episode 4-6, half trained Rey, full trained Kylo reminiscent of Luke and Vader, similar stage, similar leaving training planet, I just felt death star was replaced by massive fleet armada in terms of timing, when we discover the challenge.. however the idea to do an Armada, show it and fit each with planet destroying canons, now wthat was cool


    But for every good and cool thing there was 1 or 2 bad o r awful things, and tehn again you can't fight the premise - choosing a re- tell of 4-6 and killing off /rubbishing all the efforts of 4-6.

    I actually liked Finn this time round, but does he have a thing for Rey or not? Does Rey feel the same? The way it came off was that it was 1-sided, I felt Finn in love with Rey but Rey purely in friend zone. When it actually happened, Kylo with Rey fits much better, but it's really odd for me not to see it before it happened.

    Finally, is Finn force sensitive? I must say Espiosde 9 finally made me warm to Rey, Finn and Kylo - and now I would be interested in what happens next with this new generation. But they killed off Kylo.
    Last edited by ravenmoon; 2020-01-09 at 05:54 PM.

  3. #6083
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    You just saying that it's plausible doesn't make it so, either. So hey.

    I don't really know what's so hard about just saying that the writers wanted to introduce something new and shiny so they picked this, and that there's no other big explanation or tie-in to existing story. It's perfectly common in all forms of media.
    Your right, me saying it’s plausibly doesn’t make it so. but what I’m saying lines up with the actually universe Making it far more likely then your statements based on nothing.

  4. #6084
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Your right, me saying it’s plausibly doesn’t make it so. but what I’m saying lines up with the actually universe Making it far more likely then your statements based on nothing.
    No, you're just another person blindly defending the films for no good reason, even when there's no "attack" being made. You're not even disagreeing with anything, you're just being contrary for the sake of it because you think that I'm somehow diminishing something you're a fan of by pointing out a common plot contrivance.

    So, go ahead and get your next, "nut-uh!" reply typed up.

  5. #6085
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    No, you're just another person blindly defending the films for no good reason, even when there's no "attack" being made. You're not even disagreeing with anything, you're just being contrary for the sake of it because you think that I'm somehow diminishing something you're a fan of by pointing out a common plot contrivance.

    So, go ahead and get your next, "nut-uh!" reply typed up.
    I’ve already said multiple times I don’t like the movie and think it’s a 1/5 at best. I’m explaining why such a power likely wasn’t shown in the prequels not defending its use in the new movies.

    Explaining something about the overall Starwars universe is not the same thing as defending a singular movie.

  6. #6086
    Quote Originally Posted by Altrec View Post
    Well I certainly put most of the blame on Rian Johnson, but that is also why Kathleen deserves some of the blame for letting him do what he did. They were either on the same page with the stupid decisions or she completely failed at doing her job. As for JJ Again the rumors going around is that the released version of the TROS is not his cut of the film or the one he thought was going to be released. We will probably never know the truth.
    I suspect that is because most of the producers of those films kept a lower profile than Kathleen who made herself a bit a of a target(The bolded for additional emphasis on my point). Plus Bay also helps produce a lot of his movies so he is always going to get blame given his involvement from top to bottom.
    JJ was the one who chose to make the heroes the underdogs again and then wipe out the entirety of the Galactic Government and the majority of the resistance at the end of his first film. JJ was the one who chose to have Luke disappear for decades and hang out on a planet. JJ was the one who chose to have Luke think about killing Ben.

    The only things Rian did was kill off 3 main characters (Luke, Snoke, and Ackbar) and create the Holdo maneuver. Hell he even has Luke realize he fucked up staying hidden and then sacrifices himself to help the resistance. Rian wasn't the one who had Luke go into hiding and letting the First Order wipe everything out that was JJ. Rian just followed the most logical path as to why. What reason would JJ had that could have been any better? That he was Force cloaking something so Kylo and Snoke could get it? Why would it even matter when they got a super death star that can eat suns and shoot magical homing lasers that can split?


    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Yeah the text of the film is that he conjured the fleet with Sith magic. But they're all Imperial I class Star Destroyers. It made no sense. Apparently they're all crewed by "Sith loyalists" - how the fuck many of them were there? Since when are there Sith loyalists in the Empire?

    It's all a massive ass pull, let's be real. But you know, if you enjoyed a film it doesn't really matter. This kind of thing annoys me because I'm a huge nerd but ultimately it's not a factor in an audience's enjoyment of something.
    I think the film is designed to entertain but once you stop watching it everything falls apart. As for the ships I saw a video from someone watching the trailer before the film came out said they counted 250 ships so there is probably more but even if it was only 250 and the ships have 50k people aboard like the originals ( JJ's First order ones have over 82k people aboard with around 8k being troopers) Thats well over 12 million people just on those 250 star destroyers alone and lets face it with JJ's love of "improving" shit it likely has 82k or more people aboard each one. Plus you would think you would need more people just to deal with the mini deathstar tech.




    God the more I think about it the more I hate JJ and the Force Awakens I gotta stop thinking about these films cause I'm beginning to think that Rian Johnson was shown the Force Awakens, thought it was a mockbuster film only to be told this was going to be the new Star Wars, and then tried to warn people and save the series from Nostalgia Abrams.

  7. #6087
    The Lightbringer Sanguinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Force-users figuring something out by instinct is well-established in canon. As for Ben; are we forgetting their psychic bond again for some reason?
    Not forgetting it, I just refuse to use it as evidence for things that can't be explained otherwise. It's a lazy way of trying to justify bullshit. Also figuring it out by instinct worked in the baby Yoda setting - it didn't work for Rey. Not to mention the entire reason they were even in that specific cave by total coincidence was because of non-lethal quicksand they didn't even bother trying to escape from because they needed to find that hilarious dagger that happened to just be there

    Her learning how to do it from the sacred texts is one explanation I'm willing to accept. But the cave scene is still total bollocks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Rey was dead. The snake-thing wasn't. They portray the healing as an exchange of life Force. If the person is dead, it's gonna take everything you have to bring them back, and that means you die.
    So you assume.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The body disappearing thing isn't what happens to Jedi when they die. It's a specific Jedi ritual, done by conscious choice. I'm not even sure we see anyone properly die before using it. Yoda drifts off and then fades away. Luke and Obi-wan both pick their moment, without any injury that would cause death. And Ben's just lying down after spending himself to save Rey.
    I know that isn't what happens to all Jedi, Qui-Gons body didn't dissapear either, yet he is force ghost as well. But sure let's accept it's another thing Ben just knew how to do thanks to his magic bond with Rey.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    With Rey and Ben, Rey was focused on taking down Sheev. She didn't have time to set herself up for that shift, if she even knew how. Ben did.
    Yeah the few seconds it took for him to run over there he was setting himself up to do it!! That must be it.

  8. #6088
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    You just saying that it's plausible doesn't make it so, either. So hey.

    I don't really know what's so hard about just saying that the writers wanted to introduce something new and shiny so they picked this, and that there's no other big explanation or tie-in to existing story. It's perfectly common in all forms of media.
    I don't really know what's so hard about just to stop assuming that you are smarter than the writers and just accept that they most certainly had to write things consistently with an in-universe explanation for them. That they didn't need to spell the explanation in plain dialogue lines to those less unfortunate to not know the lore, and when people who picked up on it explain it to you - it's not just them defending the movie.

    Oh wait, I know what's so hard about it... it's Ego, the Starlord's dad.
    All right, gentlemen, let's review. The year is 2020 - that's two-zero-two-zero, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of robed sissies.

  9. #6089
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguinerd View Post
    Not forgetting it, I just refuse to use it as evidence for things that can't be explained otherwise. It's a lazy way of trying to justify bullshit. Also figuring it out by instinct worked in the baby Yoda setting - it didn't work for Rey. Not to mention the entire reason they were even in that specific cave by total coincidence was because of non-lethal quicksand they didn't even bother trying to escape from because they needed to find that hilarious dagger that happened to just be there

    Her learning how to do it from the sacred texts is one explanation I'm willing to accept. But the cave scene is still total bollocks.
    Everything about the Force is "lazy". It exists to solve problems for the protagonists, not create problems.

    The caves were RIGHT next to the guy's ship, and they were searching for the guy, because they knew he had intel. The dagger was what they were looking for. They had every reason to be there. The quicksand just cut short the time they'd need to spend searching. The dagger didn't "just happen" to be there; it was literally what they were in that location to search for.

    So you assume.
    Not particularly. The film explicitly shows this.

    I know that isn't what happens to all Jedi, Qui-Gons body didn't dissapear either, yet he is force ghost as well. But sure let's accept it's another thing Ben just knew how to do thanks to his magic bond with Rey.
    Or that he was taught, by Luke, who he trained with for literally years.

    You're ignoring basic plot elements the films explicitly showed, and pretending that you ignoring those plot points creates a plot hole.

    It doesn't.

    You're just ignoring the explanation.

    Yeah the few seconds it took for him to run over there he was setting himself up to do it!! That must be it.
    Like the few seconds it took Obi-Wan, while dueling Vader. Literally the first time we see it happen on-screen.

    It's tiring having you question stuff that has clear precedent or explanation in the films.

  10. #6090
    The Lightbringer Sanguinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It's tiring having you question stuff that has clear precedent or explanation in the films.
    What's tiring is people like you who think they're "explaining" things but actually are just making excuses and assumptions.

    But you do you man.
    Last edited by Sanguinerd; 2020-01-09 at 08:13 PM.

  11. #6091
    Yeah, if you like...dislike...love...hate...the movie, no amount of 'splaining in either way is going to convince the other side to join the team.
    Acquittal doesn't mean exoneration


  12. #6092
    The Lightbringer Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    The thing is, she didn't know anything about the force at this point. To know that the Mind Trick is possible is the first problem, to be able to use it against a well trained force user is the second problem.

    And imo, force healing can F right off. I hate that it has been introduced.
    Ignoring of course that Kylo just spent time using the more advanced version on her. You know what can she know of the Force when someone is using the Force on her. "Hey that guy tried this one me, maybe I'll try something like that one the guard."

    - - - Updated - - -

    To all the people bringing up "FORCE HEAL RUINS ANAKINS FALL!" no it doesn't.

    First, prove that Anakin knew the Jedi could do it. If this is the case, you may have an argument ... key word is may.

    Secondly, prove Anakin also knew that he could save someone from death ... hint, the way it is shown one must die regardless.

    Thirdly, prove Anakin was willing to sacrifice himself to save Padme at that time. We know he sacrificed himself to save Luke, but that was much later in his life.

    Forthly, prove that Force healing is something everyone is capable of who can use the Force.

    Plageuis was described as someone who was stated as "Preventing someone from death" ... not "only person who can heal." Your head canon is not actual head canon. Also, Force healing was a thing in the expanded universe, I don't know why this is suddenly a problem for "Star Wars Fans."
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  13. #6093
    I am Murloc! Logwyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Ignoring of course that Kylo just spent time using the more advanced version on her. You know what can she know of the Force when someone is using the Force on her. "Hey that guy tried this one me, maybe I'll try something like that one the guard."

    - - - Updated - - -

    To all the people bringing up "FORCE HEAL RUINS ANAKINS FALL!" no it doesn't.

    First, prove that Anakin knew the Jedi could do it. If this is the case, you may have an argument ... key word is may.

    Secondly, prove Anakin also knew that he could save someone from death ... hint, the way it is shown one must die regardless.

    Thirdly, prove Anakin was willing to sacrifice himself to save Padme at that time. We know he sacrificed himself to save Luke, but that was much later in his life.

    Forthly, prove that Force healing is something everyone is capable of who can use the Force.

    Plageuis was described as someone who was stated as "Preventing someone from death" ... not "only person who can heal." Your head canon is not actual head canon. Also, Force healing was a thing in the expanded universe, I don't know why this is suddenly a problem for "Star Wars Fans."

    Not sure what this is all about....But after Anakin force chokes Padme Obi-Wan reaches down and touches her forehead. Healing her? Not sure. The other thing I'll add about force healing doesn't the person have to want to be healed or to live? Padme WANTED to die as her heart was so broken by Anakin she did not want to go on living. Her lack of will to will would have made force healing moot. No?

  14. #6094
    The Lightbringer Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    Not sure what this is all about....But after Anakin force chokes Padme Obi-Wan reaches down and touches her forehead. Healing her? Not sure. The other thing I'll add about force healing doesn't the person have to want to be healed or to live? Padme WANTED to die as her heart was so broken by Anakin she did not want to go on living. Her lack of will to will would have made force healing moot. No?
    It is more about me getting tired of hearing that Force Healing makes Anakin's fall pointless, ruined, etc ... we had Force Healing in C-Canon before Disney bought it. Disney then threw out the Expanded Universe and brings back pieces it likes. There were Clone Wars novels that came out where Jedi were healing with the Force so it was something that existed in the old EU.

    I don't get how it ruins his fall now that Disney has reintroduced Force Healing to the canon.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  15. #6095
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    It is more about me getting tired of hearing that Force Healing makes Anakin's fall pointless, ruined, etc ... we had Force Healing in C-Canon before Disney bought it. Disney then threw out the Expanded Universe and brings back pieces it likes. There were Clone Wars novels that came out where Jedi were healing with the Force so it was something that existed in the old EU.

    I don't get how it ruins his fall now that Disney has reintroduced Force Healing to the canon.
    The first instances of force healing I remember predate the Clone Wars novels. It’s fucking weird people have a problem with an ability that has been in the universe for over 25 years(first novel I remember it being a major plot point was Champions of the Force from 94).
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    100:1 odds that he wont
    Quote Originally Posted by freefolk View Post
    Okay. I'll stop sharing my views.

  16. #6096
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    I don't really know what's so hard about just to stop assuming that you are smarter than the writers and just accept that they most certainly had to write things consistently with an in-universe explanation for them. That they didn't need to spell the explanation in plain dialogue lines to those less unfortunate to not know the lore, and when people who picked up on it explain it to you - it's not just them defending the movie.

    Oh wait, I know what's so hard about it... it's Ego, the Starlord's dad.
    So it's "ego" to say that Force Healing just came out of nowhere for the sake of giving their protagonist something new?

    Sure. It's not a totally common and regular plot contrivance or anything, it must be my totally out of control ego talking, daring to question the almighty writers as if they're not just writing fiction but recounting true and real events from a set of historical documents or something.

  17. #6097
    I think the force healing stuff isn't a big deal, because this is Star Wars, and its not serious scifi meant to hold up to severe scrutiny by obsessed nerds.

  18. #6098
    The Insane PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polyxo View Post
    I think the force healing stuff isn't a big deal, because this is Star Wars, and its not serious scifi meant to hold up to severe scrutiny by obsessed nerds.
    Exactly. At the end of the day it's Star Wars, where the 'cool' factor is traded for logic.

  19. #6099
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    So it's "ego" to say that Force Healing just came out of nowhere for the sake of giving their protagonist something new?

    Sure. It's not a totally common and regular plot contrivance or anything, it must be my totally out of control ego talking, daring to question the almighty writers as if they're not just writing fiction but recounting true and real events from a set of historical documents or something.
    If you assume to be smarter than people you criticize - whom you have never met in person - it's always about your ego. Check your narcissism.
    All right, gentlemen, let's review. The year is 2020 - that's two-zero-two-zero, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of robed sissies.

  20. #6100
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    If you assume to be smarter than people you criticize - whom you have never met in person - it's always about your ego. Check your narcissism.
    Oh come off it. Now you're just throwing words around. You just want to insult me but you're too weak to actually say something that will get you moderated.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Polyxo View Post
    I think the force healing stuff isn't a big deal, because this is Star Wars, and its not serious scifi meant to hold up to severe scrutiny by obsessed nerds.
    That's pretty much what I've said it was added for - to give the new protagonist something new and cool - but I guess that's too much for some people.

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