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  1. #881
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    The dreadnought is only a 'fleet killer' if the fleet just sits there. Its was a flying glass cannon WW2 artillery guns. All they had to do was jump. Poe's stunt allowed them (the Resistance) to get tagged and later bagged.

    You don't ram stuff at hyperspeed in SW because

    1) It's extremely difficult. You have to get danger close to your target, home girl would have been shot down if the FO wasn't being arrogant. Then you wait until your computers plot a trajectory that sends you through your target right before you slip into hyperspace. The Raddus didn't take out the ship it hit either, she just made it limp. The impact did create a shotgun effect that took out some of the ships behind the Supremacy but you wouldn't see ships lined up like that in an actual battle. If you mess and you hit the ship too slow to do any real damage or zoom right past it. This all correlates to why Japanese kamikazes were ineffective after the shock of them wore off.

    2) Hyperspace full is extremely expensive. During the Galactic Civil War (Ep 4-6). The Rebels couldn't afford to throw fuel away like that. Fuel that could be used for pilots and capital ships that proved a lot more effective. The Resistance is a privately funded venture that has fewer resources than that of the Rebel Alliance facing a more formidable foe. We literally saw them run out of fuel in the movie. They wouldn't be able to afford to throw fuel away like that either.

    3) The CIS tried to use suicide tactics and failed most of the time.
    1. Poe considered a fleet killer even though they were running. Meaning it would be a manager to them if they followed. No one argued against it being a fleet killer, no one countered that it wouldnt be a threat if they ran. They only got mad because he disobeyed an order, not that he disobeyed an order and wasted lives on a target that had no value.

    2) at the battle of Endor the rebel fleet managed to last long enough (engaging those star Destroyers at point blank range) I fail to see how if that is a tactic tused in actual fleet to fleet combat that people would unable to get a hyperspace ram close enough to be used.

    3) is it really throwing fuel away when you are saving money on construction of massive ships, mx of said ships, training of personnel, keeping them fed and happy ect ect. Going back to the battle of Endor, the Imperials lost their flag ship and it was a big moment in the fight. That victory could have come soon er and cheaper with a hyperspace ram. But all of this is besides the point. I'm not looking at the rebels and resistance specifically and asking why they didnt use them. I'm saying the fact that they exist and can be used to such an efficient degree means that capital ships shouldnt even exist. They are to vulnerable and to costly to be worth using.

  2. #882
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta333 View Post
    Disney has milked star wars to death, even the blinded by the franchise uberfanbois have seen it. After this i hope we can just let the brand die. Its really sad to say but starwars would have been far better off if lucas hadnt been bullied by the idiot fucking fans into selling to disney. We have had zero good starwars games since it being sold. The only bearable movie was rogue one and that was a basic bitch storyline that was hard to fuck up but entirely forgetable. Not even luke skywalker is pleased with how he was forced to portray luke skywalker and then silenced by disney. Also fuck kathleen kenedy and her cancer direction of the story
    When your sites will told you that Kathleen Kennedy is the cause of ISIS, you will believe them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fayolynn View Post
    1. Poe considered a fleet killer even though they were running. Meaning it would be a manager to them if they followed. No one argued against it being a fleet killer, no one countered that it wouldnt be a threat if they ran. They only got mad because he disobeyed an order, not that he disobeyed an order and wasted lives on a target that had no value.

    2) at the battle of Endor the rebel fleet managed to last long enough (engaging those star Destroyers at point blank range) I fail to see how if that is a tactic tused in actual fleet to fleet combat that people would unable to get a hyperspace ram close enough to be used.

    3) is it really throwing fuel away when you are saving money on construction of massive ships, mx of said ships, training of personnel, keeping them fed and happy ect ect. Going back to the battle of Endor, the Imperials lost their flag ship and it was a big moment in the fight. That victory could have come soon er and cheaper with a hyperspace ram. But all of this is besides the point. I'm not looking at the rebels and resistance specifically and asking why they didnt use them. I'm saying the fact that they exist and can be used to such an efficient degree means that capital ships shouldnt even exist. They are to vulnerable and to costly to be worth using.
    Per Star Wars standard, the dreadnought, which is a bombardment ship crewed by imbeciles who it targets that can' t move before targets that can move opposed extremely heavy resistance to the Resistance starfighters. Even in Rogue and Wraith books, the novels most heavy in star combat, losing half the squadron is considered unacceptable, let alone the entire squadron. If you lose the entire squadron, you lose all possibility of striking back. Plus, in a desperation for rational behavior in SW, I kinda imagine in my head that the bomber with horizontal flight gravity bomb was designated for surface bombing runs….

  3. #883
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    No one is saying that. He was responsible for making a GOOD movie, and a lot of people (me included) think he failed miserably. The Force Awakens may have been A New Hope version 2.0, but it FELT like a Star Wars movie. The Last Jedi, felt like a badly written Guardians of the Galaxy with lightsabers. This isn't going to be very effective at making my point but I know people will get it. I left The Force Awakens excited and happy, feeling like I just saw a brand new fucking STAR WARS movie and even went and saw it two more times in the theater. I left Rogue One feeling the same way. I left The Last Jedi feeling confused, disappointed and asking "what the fuck did I just watch?" That's not a very empirical review, but Star Wars was never really about a critically acclaimed they were, they were entertaining and fun and they all had a similar feeling when watching them, including the prequels. TLJ failed in all regards as a Star Wars movie to me.
    I think you inadvertently proved my point, with your closing line of 'TLJ failed in all regards as a Star Wars movie to me' which is sort of the point I was trying to make; with a vast, diverse audience that's been growing over the past 30 years, it's impossible for any filmmaker to make a movie that everyone likes. Look I'm a pretty hardcore Star Wars fan, too. Did I like everything about the movie? No way Jose. But, it did have some good points, and above all, it delivered what Star Wars fans apparently wanted: "something different". People said that The Force Awakens was too much like A New Hope. They wanted 'Something different' Rian Johnson gave them something different = fans are outraged. Can't win 'em all. And again, I think the point I really want to make is Who Fucking Cares in the end? It's a movie, get over it. If you don't like it, why not make your own? (I'm not saying you specifically, this kind of turned into a rant against hardcore, mouth-breathing fan boi's)

  4. #884
    Old God Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarahtasher View Post
    The problem is that every author/game/comic tends to invent his own stuff that would be overkill in other books, but keep being ignored.

    -Zahn and the RPG designed the Interdictor cruiser, which make the battles in ESRB and ROTJ looks extremely stupid. Why they don't brought those ships there (short of ''well, they were not designed in the real world at the same time)
    -The same designed the Lancer frigate, a starship specially made to fight the Rebels and very good at it. (AA guns). Ignored, as this make impossible plots like ''and Luke drop a torpedo on the weapon of the week
    -As you said, canonically, use of ramming and hyperdrive tends to vary immensely from author to author. Ramming is however extensively used (the general problem is that hyperdrive is essentially a black box device, something that can be copied but tends to be poorly understood. By desactivating the safety features, such as automatic drop off of hyperspace, you can do stuff judged impossible in other movies….because it's was not convenient in the plot)

    I would repeat there that historical poor man tactics, like kamikaze attacks using civilian ships are difficult to put in SW, because they are associated with ''bad guys'' for the Americans. Hence the rather inexplicable heaviest use of them in Star Wars, where the immense Yuutzan Vong fleet, who can drop moons and asteroids with ease, subtly rams captured civilian ships on Coruscant shields. Subtle. Book published October 2001.
    What I find funny is that this applys to force powers/users as well. untrained force users can shake star destroyers break necks and make flesh sculptures but rey lifts a few rocks and people say it breaks starwars.

  5. #885
    Quote Originally Posted by tyrlaan View Post
    Calling out Phasma as uninteresting really resonates with me. I guess they were going for the Boba Fett effect, but honestly it just fell flat (I'd also argue there's little to explain why Boba Fett was seen as such a badass so quickly.
    I think what confuses me the most about Phasma is how much they talk her up and how they were like omg we got Gwendoline Christie to be in the movie. And then she proceeded to absolutely nothing except be a big joke.

  6. #886
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    What I find funny is that this applys to force powers/users as well. untrained force users can shake star destroyers break necks and make flesh sculptures but rey lifts a few rocks and people say it breaks starwars.
    Let's not forget KJA creative zenith, in which a group of force trainees push an entire fleet out of the Yavin system.

  7. #887
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHotz View Post
    Rian Johnson is not responsible for making the movie that every Star Wars fan has in their heads.

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    I have noticed that people seem to keep going back to this 'Why did Holdo ram the Calmari Cruiser into Snoke's ship?!?!? Why hasn't this been done before?!??!!??! Why didn't they do this in other Star Wars movies?!?!?!?? MOM WIPE ME!' etc and so forth.
    There's two reasons for this. One, being that no writer thought to ever do this. Two, in the fictional Star Wars universe itself, this would be extremely impractical. Ships are expensive, and they take a very, very long time (presumably) to build, so if you just go around Hyper-jumping one ship into another, you're now out of a ship that you probably really needed. In war times, resources are quite precious. Churchill gave Turing one million Pounds to create his code-breaking machine and that was considered an insane waste of resources by many. I think the reason most fan boy's haven't realized this is because they are so obsessed with a fictional universe and characters that someone else created, that they do not have enough of an understand of the actual world we live in, and as such are not able to understand the time/resource/cost trade-off's that must often be made, probably because their mother's cook their food and buy their underwear for them. Thank you for reading, have a great day.
    I didnt expect RJ to make the movie I wanted. I expected him to make one that wasnt badly written, full of mixed messages and events that didnt make any sort of logical sense.

  8. #888
    Old God Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta333 View Post
    Disney has milked star wars to death, even the blinded by the franchise uberfanbois have seen it. After this i hope we can just let the brand die. Its really sad to say but starwars would have been far better off if lucas hadnt been bullied by the idiot fucking fans into selling to disney. We have had zero good starwars games since it being sold. The only bearable movie was rogue one and that was a basic bitch storyline that was hard to fuck up but entirely forgetable. Not even luke skywalker is pleased with how he was forced to portray luke skywalker and then silenced by disney. Also fuck kathleen kenedy and her cancer direction of the story

    You could agrue that starwars is far lessed milked then in the past where the eu was polluted with 100’s of comics books and games that messed the canon up to all hell. The only differance has been more movies coming out while the other material has been slowed to try and stay in canon.

  9. #889
    Quote Originally Posted by Fayolynn View Post
    I didnt expect RJ to make the movie I wanted. I expected him to make one that wasnt badly written, full of mixed messages and events that didnt make any sort of logical sense.
    As opposed as those bastion of completely logical movies that are all Star Wars books, comics and movies ?

    For instance, there is the mother of all plot holes thanks to Georges insistance at putting the droids in the OT, to have more fanservice than a TV show about Twi'lek single mothers dancing to pay for the bills.

    Why R2-D2 does not tell Luke about Padme ?
    Last edited by sarahtasher; 2019-04-15 at 03:12 PM.

  10. #890
    Quote Originally Posted by Fayolynn View Post
    I didnt expect RJ to make the movie I wanted. I expected him to make one that wasnt badly written, full of mixed messages and events that didnt make any sort of logical sense.
    Can you be specific?

  11. #891

  12. #892

  13. #893
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    Nolan's Batman trilogy also ended with The Dark Knight Rises.

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    To be honest, I'm not completely sure it was the Emperor. I mean, context suggests it, but... Hamill made quite a living on maniac laughs.
    Ian McDiarmid then came on to the stage and said, in the Emperor's voice, "Roll it again"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZijkWOhj_G4

  14. #894
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHotz View Post
    Rian Johnson is not responsible for making the movie that every Star Wars fan has in their heads.

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    I have noticed that people seem to keep going back to this 'Why did Holdo ram the Calmari Cruiser into Snoke's ship?!?!? Why hasn't this been done before?!??!!??! Why didn't they do this in other Star Wars movies?!?!?!?? MOM WIPE ME!' etc and so forth.
    There's two reasons for this. One, being that no writer thought to ever do this. Two, in the fictional Star Wars universe itself, this would be extremely impractical. Ships are expensive, and they take a very, very long time (presumably) to build, so if you just go around Hyper-jumping one ship into another, you're now out of a ship that you probably really needed. In war times, resources are quite precious. Churchill gave Turing one million Pounds to create his code-breaking machine and that was considered an insane waste of resources by many. I think the reason most fan boy's haven't realized this is because they are so obsessed with a fictional universe and characters that someone else created, that they do not have enough of an understand of the actual world we live in, and as such are not able to understand the time/resource/cost trade-off's that must often be made, probably because their mother's cook their food and buy their underwear for them. Thank you for reading, have a great day.
    I'm sorry but a time/resource/cost trade-off of what? You have a Star Destroyer, costing huge amounts of money, tons of people on it, small fighter craft etc...now all of this can be destroyed by just ramming any ship into it at lightspeed. Could even be remote controlled. Just hit the bridge of a STD and it's game over (like the Executor in RotJ). Steal a random cargo freighter, and just bam. If that's not resource efficient then I don't know what is.
    Resistance members should be used to guerilla tactics so this should be kind of a no brainer for them.

  15. #895
    Quote Originally Posted by unholytestament View Post
    The trailer dropped days ago. It has been confirmed since that it most definitely is the Emperor.

    https://twitter.com/jamescdyer/statu...68667948077056
    Sure. I just had this passing doubt.

    (also explaining shit in teasers in lame, let the fans work on theories)

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHotz View Post
    Ian McDiarmid then came on to the stage and said, in the Emperor's voice, "Roll it again"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZijkWOhj_G4
    There was no stage where I watched the teaser. Sorry.

  16. #896
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHotz View Post
    I think you inadvertently proved my point, with your closing line of 'TLJ failed in all regards as a Star Wars movie to me' which is sort of the point I was trying to make; with a vast, diverse audience that's been growing over the past 30 years, it's impossible for any filmmaker to make a movie that everyone likes. Look I'm a pretty hardcore Star Wars fan, too. Did I like everything about the movie? No way Jose. But, it did have some good points, and above all, it delivered what Star Wars fans apparently wanted: "something different". People said that The Force Awakens was too much like A New Hope. They wanted 'Something different' Rian Johnson gave them something different = fans are outraged. Can't win 'em all. And again, I think the point I really want to make is Who Fucking Cares in the end? It's a movie, get over it. If you don't like it, why not make your own? (I'm not saying you specifically, this kind of turned into a rant against hardcore, mouth-breathing fan boi's)
    You're also kind of proving my point. You say Star Wars fans wanted "something different" whereas the Box Office performance of TLJ suggests that's not what a lot of fans really wanted. Of course there is a huge diverse pool of "fans" but I'd wager there are more who align with my view and were disappointed with the movie than those who thoroughly enjoyed it.

    There are ways to do "something different" without gutting what IMO was the soul of a Star Wars movie. I have to say IMO, "to me" etc... because I don't speak for everyone else, but I at least know I'm not the only one who feels this way as I have friends who think this way too, it's not impossible others out there feel that way as well.

    Star Wars was always took itself more seriously in it's story telling with comedy being on the side, or more sporadic. It had light hearted moments, but it was never a comedy. TLJ felt more like a comedy movie than a Star Wars movie. Anytime things were getting a little close to serious, someone cracks a joke, or does something ridiculous. Admittedly, some of the jokes were well done and incredibly funny, like the opening bit with Poe on the comm, but IMO most of them were unnecessary and timed inappropriately. It tried to be like the Marvel movies that have comedic moments thrown in pretty regularly, but sacrificed too much of itself to have the comedy.

    And your question is a bit ridiculous. There are a number of reasons random fans can't just make their own Star Wars movie. The biggest one being the IP is OWNED BY DISNEY. So there's no chance of a fan made movie ever getting released. Second biggest issue is money, but that hurdle could be surpassed using crowd funding I suppose which leads back to DISNEY OWNING THE IP.

  17. #897
    Quote Originally Posted by Avengerx View Post
    I'm sorry but a time/resource/cost trade-off of what? You have a Star Destroyer, costing huge amounts of money, tons of people on it, small fighter craft etc...now all of this can be destroyed by just ramming any ship into it at lightspeed. Could even be remote controlled. Just hit the bridge of a STD and it's game over (like the Executor in RotJ). Steal a random cargo freighter, and just bam. If that's not resource efficient then I don't know what is.
    Resistance members should be used to guerilla tactics so this should be kind of a no brainer for them.
    Dude, you are really asking why, in an American franchise, the designated good guys do not use historical tactics of attacking targets with suicide bombers (or ''amounting to suicide'' bombers) ? Subtly, the only rebel faction that does it are Gerrera Partisans, the space Afghans. Do you see how conservative groups would HOWL for murder ?

    For the record, for someone outside out of the US, it's very obvious and it kinda ruins the endless crying about ''duze dunm ebil SJWs''
    Last edited by sarahtasher; 2019-04-15 at 03:33 PM.

  18. #898
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    Sure. I just had this passing doubt.

    (also explaining shit in teasers in lame, let the fans work on theories)

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    There was no stage where I watched the teaser. Sorry.
    No need for an apology, friend, just wanted you to see it

  19. #899
    Old God Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avengerx View Post
    I'm sorry but a time/resource/cost trade-off of what? You have a Star Destroyer, costing huge amounts of money, tons of people on it, small fighter craft etc...now all of this can be destroyed by just ramming any ship into it at lightspeed. Could even be remote controlled. Just hit the bridge of a STD and it's game over (like the Executor in RotJ). Steal a random cargo freighter, and just bam. If that's not resource efficient then I don't know what is.
    Resistance members should be used to guerilla tactics so this should be kind of a no brainer for them.
    You would Proabbly need ships with quite a bit of mass as light speed wouldn’t just let you punch though any thing before the ship was destroyed. A small ship would Proabbly do some damage but it wouldn’t have the same effect we saw in TLJ.

  20. #900
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    You would Proabbly need ships with quite a bit of mass as light speed wouldn’t just let you punch though any thing before the ship was destroyed. A small ship would Proabbly do some damage but it wouldn’t have the same effect we saw in TLJ.
    Morever, the entire problem seems to be the assumption that conventional militaries in SW are vey uncreative and incapable of thinking outside the box.

    No way.

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