Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[Elim Garak]

I always cringed at celebration scenes in the original and prequel trilogies.

[Darththeo]

It's like trying to justify the nightborne being on horde because Tyrande was mean. Things made after a decision has been made are an example of a concept called post justification.

My justification for the Holdo maneuver involves a line from Han Solo in ANH.
My justification on the healing thing involves fact found in the Clone Wars.

So, again, I have to repeat myself. You only accept explanations based on your own pre-determinec guidelines that you are free to discount when it suits you.

[Ragedaug]

Honestly, I can't recall that being said in the book.

However, I did find a quote from JJ.

https://www.cinemablend.com/new/Why-...ams-98837.html

"It was a great question, and one that we talked about quite a bit, even with Carrie [Fisher]…Why did she not take advantage of this natural Force strength that this character had. And one of the answers was that it was simply a choice that she made, that her decision to run the Rebellion, and ultimately this Resistance, and consider herself a General, as opposed to a Jedi. It was simply a choice that she took."

He doesn't talk about being a Senator, merely leading the Rebellion and Resistance. Was this what you were thinking of?

She's a senator in Bloodline (best I can tell). That excuse is also consistent with Legends, in that she was always too busy with politics, and she stepped up her training once her political career was over.

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It's like trying to justify the nightborne being on horde because Tyrande was mean. Things made after a decision has been made are an example of a concept called post justification.

That's very common in story telling. I'm completely guessing here, but I would suspect most authors have an ending in mind when they start, so the entire rest of the story is justifying that end.

The question is always, is it an acceptable or satisfying justification, and when it does not we usually describe that as contrivance. Contrivance leading to poor story telling when the author can't figure a convincing or satisfying solution to reach their ends.

[Darththeo]

She's a senator in Bloodline (best I can tell). That excuse is also consistent with Legends, in that she was always too busy with politics, and she stepped up her training once her political career was over.

She also trained as a Jedi on and off in Legends. And yes, she is a senator in Bloodlines, I am saying I don't recall her saying in that book she never trained as a Jedi.

[Fabinas]

This is the literal definition of a double standard.

It's okay to admit you don't like Star Wars any more, y'know. Nobody's forcing you to like it. I'm just pointing out that it's ridiculous to hold the original trilogy to one standard, and then blame the newer films for failing to live up to a much stricter standard, which even the original trilogy couldn't hold up to. It's all Star Wars, and it should all be assessed by the same standard. If you think the newer films are silly because the Force is a deus ex machina that does whatever the writers need it to do, well, that's true of the OT as well. This is you not liking Star Wars as an IP, wholesale, it is not the newer films somehow not living up to their legacy.

People compare the Star Wars thing with the Transformers films. I was a huge Transformers fan as a kid. And I stopped being able to watch the films. Not because the models were so much more detailed and different, not because Sam Witwicky was so central a character. Because they kept using toilet humour and shit like racist tropes. That was a significant change, pulling away from the older content. You show me a Constructicon with big hanging steel balls clanging, and make a joke about his big balls, and you lose me. I can point to exactly what changed, and why I dislike it.

And it's why I did really enjoy the Bumblebee film, which was a lot more true to that original legacy and cut all that crap out.

With Star Wars, though, it's people like yourself admitting that they hold the new films to standards the older films can't meet, and hating the newer films for things that made the original films iconic. That's nonsense. You just don't like Star Wars. Which is fine. Feel free to find your fandom. Nobody's demanding you like Star Wars, here. Just that shitting on Star Wars films for being Star Wars films and holding true to the same silliness that Star Wars has always held is . . . nonsense.

Sure, mate. It's nonsense to grow, to evolve, to want better. We should stick to the past and never criticise the future, as long as its faulty as the past.

Yes, double standards. You got me there. Here's an internetz fo juu.

[qwerty123456]

Probably because Palpatine's goal wasn't to kill everyone? I think you misunderstood his goal, he never want to kill everyone. He wanted to inflict fear on them to force them to submit to his rule again.

I saw it again last night and I could have sworn they said he was going to use his fleet to wipe out the planets. but even if I'm wrong:

He already wiped the galactic government out with the first order and was kidnapping kids for years. They were already scared shitless and nobody came to help the resistance until he announced himself and Lando somehow rallied everyone. Also why wouldn't he have sent all his ship to all the worlds before he announced himself and had them stuck on the planet?

His star destroyers have over 50k people on them and he had hundreds if not thousands of ships. Plus the entire throne room or whatever was filled with thousands of people as well. Even if there were only 250 ships the dude would have had over 12 million followers (excluding everyone in the first order) and we already knew he was willing to blow up planets I doubt he would have cared if he had to wipe out every planet.

Also all this happens in under 16 hours.

Don't get me wrong I don't hate the movie and I think its more entertaining than the Force Awakens(and maybe even a couple of the prequels) but the entire plot is just terrible nonsense.

[LordVargK]

Spoiler
Has anyone answered why Anakin choose dark side while Jedis could heal too?
Story became meaningless to me now.

My personal explanation: Rey (and only Rey) inherited this ability as granddaughter of Palpatine (like her lightning powers). In new Star Wars Force powers seem to be inheritable, Kylo uses Force choke all the time and the only other Sith who used it was Darth Vader. So Rey inherited Palpatines ability to "prevent death" and through the plotdevice of "unseen bond" she transfered this ability to Kylo.

I saw it again last night and I could have sworn they said he was going to use his fleet to wipe out the planets. but even if I'm wrong:

I think you are right. And why else would he need 10000 planet killer Stardestroyers? One would be enough as a demonstration of Power (like the deathstar was).

He already wiped the galactic government out with the first order and was kidnapping kids for years. They were already scared shitless and nobody came to help the resistance until he announced himself and Lando somehow rallied everyone. Also why wouldn't he have sent all his ship to all the worlds before he announced himself and had them stuck on the planet?

Because there would be no movie. Like every other Superhero/Action movie. But i'll play devil's advocate: His main goal was to get Rey to come to him to get a new, fresher body for himself. And he likes drama and demonstrating his power. A victory is less triumphant if there was no resistance (pun not intended). As an nearly allmighty being, just subdueing the galaxy might be boring.

His star destroyers have over 50k people on them and he had hundreds if not thousands of ships. Plus the entire throne room or whatever was filled with thousands of people as well. Even if there were only 250 ships the dude would have had over 12 million followers (excluding everyone in the first order) and we already knew he was willing to blow up planets I doubt he would have cared if he had to wipe out every planet.

My theory on this: Only the commando ship was manned, the others were remote-controlled. That would also explain why they had to send the travel coordinates from the commando ship (instead of transferring the signal to EVERY ship after the beacon got disabled).

Also all this happens in under 16 hours.

Yeah, not even I as the devil's advocate can defend that. It's just way too ridiculous...

Don't get me wrong I don't hate the movie and I think its more entertaining than the Force Awakens(and maybe even a couple of the prequels) but the entire plot is just terrible nonsense.

It's a fine movie but feels like a random starwars fanfic spinoff.

[Orby]

Finding my old ratings posts on these forums for all the new Star Wars movies is very interesting on what I gave them, because I almost forgot what scores I gave out.

Force Awakens 7/10
The Last Jedi 6/10
Rise of Skywalker 6/10

Solo 5/10

Rogue One 8/10

Looking back at those scores I gave them I stand by it... although maybe I was a little easy on Rise of Skywalker as I made the review very soon after I saw it, maybe I should have given it a 5/10 or maybe a 4/10, but I gotta stand by my initial opinion. Lesson learned.

But I stand by my belief that Rogue One was certainly the better movie of the modern Star Wars movies... It's the only new modern Star Wars movie I have re-watched.

[exochaft]

That's very common in story telling. I'm completely guessing here, but I would suspect most authors have an ending in mind when they start, so the entire rest of the story is justifying that end.

The question is always, is it an acceptable or satisfying justification, and when it does not we usually describe that as contrivance. Contrivance leading to poor story telling when the author can't figure a convincing or satisfying solution to reach their ends.

Depends on the author, but in general many have an idea where the story is going. However, many also have a basic structure as how you get from the beginning to the end, and that can make a huge difference in the resulting work. This is why, when it comes to the new Star Wars trilogy, the biggest thing it had going against the trilogy was that there was no master plan with not only the ending worked out but also the major story beats and main plot arcs roughly figured out. The trilogy cycles through directors and writers who all had their own vision of what should happen and were likely never on the same page, so we should be so fortunate that the trilogy didn't end up worse, but what likely makes people upset is that the movies could've been so much better if Disney had spent time to formulate a plan.

I'll admit there are some authors/writers that can create a good and convincing story without an ending in mind. However, those people are very talented and very few in number. Most authors try their best when they're forced into such situations, kind of when the author has a set number of arcs in a story, then the publisher/network wants them to create more beyond what they originally wanted. Happens in manga, TV shows, and even film franchises, and people tend to notice this when the story lines in said content become a stretch to believe, the logic/reasoning portray begins to veer way off course of what the characters normally do, you get more and more unexplained jumps in power or radical changes in how power/abilities work, plot progression seems to speed up and skip over details, etc. Most commonly you see this in "filler" episodes so you can make your episode count, in "filler" arcs/seasons where you need to buy time, or in later seasons where the show has gone well beyond the creator's initial plan.

In this regard, I give JJ credit for what he did with RoS, as he had to deal with the mess of no plan or cohesive plot line and try to make some semblance of a finale. I still think the result was pretty bad, but as I've said before, this is probably the best we could've hoped for with what he was given. Doesn't mean you have to like the movie at all, I just give props to JJ for trying and not making it insanely bad.

[tromage2]

But I stand by my belief that Rogue One was certainly the better movie of the modern Star Wars movies... It's the only new modern Star Wars movie I have re-watched.

Rogue one is the best Disney Star Wars movie because it only adds to the franchise and is not breaking stuff.
It is pretty sad that a standalone movie is actually the one movie that fits in the Skywalker franchise the most out of them all.

[Kyphael]

Even the original version pre special edition was better then what we got in TRoS.

May be an unpopular opinion, but I much prefer the special edition over the original. I thought the special edition did a good job tying the originals to the prequels. I even like the idea of Anakin's ghost appearing youthful, he did truly die when he became Vader as a young man. It also boosts the original's stock, IMO with celebrations on Tatooine, Coruscant, etc. by showing how much of a grip The Empire had in those places. We never even saw Coruscant and Naboo in the original trilogy for obvious reasons, but they were beautiful cities fully explored in the prequels. Showing celebrations there ties it all together nicely.

I've yet to see the celebration scene in Rise of Skywalker.

[Skulltaker]

May be an unpopular opinion, but I much prefer the special edition over the original. I thought the special edition did a good job tying the originals to the prequels. I even like the idea of Anakin's ghost appearing youthful, he did truly die when he became Vader as a young man. It also boosts the original's stock, IMO with celebrations on Tatooine, Coruscant, etc. by showing how much of a grip The Empire had in those places. We never even saw Coruscant and Naboo in the original trilogy for obvious reasons, but they were beautiful cities fully explored in the prequels. Showing celebrations there ties it all together nicely.

I've yet to see the celebration scene in Rise of Skywalker.

Coruscant was in the original 'digitally improved' overhaul from the 90es. The scene depicted here is the improved improved version for the BluRay release where they added Naboo, The Senate building and the Jedi temple to Coruscant in addition to adding Hayden Christiansen in the end. If memory serves me right that's also the version where they undid the Greedo shot first scene.

[Kyphael]

Coruscant was in the original 'digitally improved' overhaul from the 90es. The scene depicted here is the improved improved version for the BluRay release where they added Naboo, The Senate building and the Jedi temple to Coruscant in addition to adding Hayden Christiansen in the end. If memory serves me right that's also the version where they undid the Greedo shot first scene.

Whoa, to be honest I didn't even know there was a digital re-release in the 90's. I didn't get into Star Wars until Episode II. That was the first Star Wars movie I saw and it blew me away. I remembered seeing the original trilogy on VHS my dad rented in the early 90's but I was like 8 so I thought it was corny. When Episode II came out, the special effects and the Jedi lore got me hooked, and I got the original trilogy re-release with "Greedo shoots first" and watched them all.

[Th3Scourge]

Finding my old ratings posts on these forums for all the new Star Wars movies is very interesting on what I gave them, because I almost forgot what scores I gave out.

Force Awakens 7/10
The Last Jedi 6/10
Rise of Skywalker 6/10

Solo 5/10

Rogue One 8/10

Looking back at those scores I gave them I stand by it... although maybe I was a little easy on Rise of Skywalker as I made the review very soon after I saw it, maybe I should have given it a 5/10 or maybe a 4/10, but I gotta stand by my initial opinion. Lesson learned.

But I stand by my belief that Rogue One was certainly the better movie of the modern Star Wars movies... It's the only new modern Star Wars movie I have re-watched.

I agree with you about Rogue One, I've watched it multiple times and although I did see The Force Awakens at the cinema twice, I can't bring myself to watch it again because The Last Jedi really brought it's flaws to the surface.

If I was to rate them:

TFA: 5/10
R1: 7.5/10
TLJ: 1/10
RoS: 3/10

Haven't see Solo, and if it wasn't for a free ticket, I would've never seen RoS. I can't even re-watch reviews panning TLJ, it's such a steaming pile of shit

[Skulltaker]

Whoa, to be honest I didn't even know there was a digital re-release in the 90's. I didn't get into Star Wars until Episode II. That was the first Star Wars movie I saw and it blew me away. I remembered seeing the original trilogy on VHS my dad rented in the early 90's but I was like 8 so I thought it was corny. When Episode II came out, the special effects and the Jedi lore got me hooked, and I got the original trilogy re-release with "Greedo shoots first" and watched them all.

It wasn't digital. Early 90es George Lucas decided to redo the movies and used unused footage and modern CGI to 'improve' the movies. It meant that a whole new generation could see Star Wars in theatres. People assumed Lucas did this to gather funds and experience for making the prequels, but it also canonized Coruscant befor the prequels production started.

[Kyphael]

It wasn't digital. Early 90es George Lucas decided to redo the movies and used unused footage and modern CGI to 'improve' the movies. It meant that a whole new generation could see Star Wars in theatres. People assumed Lucas did this to gather funds and experience for making the prequels, but it also canonized Coruscant befor the prequels production started.

Ooh, makes sense. These were the 1997 re-releases, right? Was later in the 90's than I realized since I heard Lucas had made the decision to make the prequels after seeing Jurassic Park, which showed him special effects had caught up to his vision of what a Star Wars movie should look like. Then again, seems right, takes 3-5 years to plan a new trilogy from scripting and all.

[eschatological]

The '97 re-releases were just another example of Lucas's massive ego just inserting random shit into the frame to show off new CGI which was completely unnecessary. Obi Wan and Luke's entrance to Mos Isley is probably the best example.

And then the Greedo shot. Wow. Dude can't stop editing that one scene, I think it's gone through 4 changes at this point.

[Dwarfhamster]

OK. Finally saw TROS. Was not as bad as so many people made it to be. In fact, I thought it was pretty decent, much better than TLJ. It was a bit frantic and the first half was all over the place but it ended well, in my opinion. I'm glad Ben Solo died--narrative-wise, there was no way he can live after killing his father. It was cool to see Ahsoka Tano at the end as well. And the last shot with the twin sunsets on Tatooine. <3

There were definitely things I thought were lacking or could've been done differently, but I enjoyed it for what it is. And Fin is annoying as fuck.

[Xath]

Everyone missing the point. I loved the first 2 Harry Potter films, the third was just okay, but honestly hate the later films.
Guess what I didn't do? I didn't go online and disparage everyone who was enjoying the films, harass the director, or actors (all things people of Fandom Menace have no qualms with doing).

I moved on with my life and let my money do the talking to the point I didn't go see the last two films. You don't like the films we get it, what do you add by chasting everyone who enjoyed them?

Nobody here is harssing the director so stop with that bs. Yes there are some idiots there were also idiots who harassed the director of sex and the city because it didn't end how they wanted it. There are idiots in every fandom talking about the deficiencies of the movie is not the same as harassing the cast. Stop making leaps that don't make sense.

[BeepBoo]

Honestly, after being prepared for the worst, I actually really liked it. I'm happy they un-fucked everything from the abom that was TLJ, and the rest was exactly what I want from starwars. Rey still my least favorite main character, but she did her thing fine and it ended how I expected. 10/10 for new star wars saga. My favorite of the 3. Solid 7/10 for movies I've liked overall. Notbadobama.