Poll: Rate the movie STAR WARS™: The Rise of Skywalker™

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  1. #5361
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Your post doesn’t really make sense to read so I’ll just respond to the divine part.

    To the Jedi the force or more strictly the light side is very much so divine/god the Jedi order is a religion based off of it as are the sith. The force is very much so the god of the Starwars universe guiding and binding every thing and the Jedi very much so treat it as one in all Starwars canons.
    If killing the emperor was meaningless then, it has to be meaningless now. Think.

    And it is not established like that in the movie. Don't link a comic. No movie universe should require dlc to make sense.

  2. #5362
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dextroden View Post
    If killing the emperor was meaningless then, it has to be meaningless now. Think.

    And it is not established like that in the movie. Don't link a comic. No movie universe should require dlc to make sense.
    Ah, that’s what you meant. Killing the emperor was meaningless in saving his freinds if they were actually in danger as he said. Sure it helps the galaxy but if Han and chewy had blasters to there heads on the moon at that moment killing him does nothing to save them.

    I also don’t need to link a comic but if I did it would be just as legitimate as the movies as the universe isn’t limited to the movies. But any way the prequels show that the Jedi were an organized religion and yoda describes the force as a Devine guiding hand that binds and connects every thing in empire iE god. The clone wars cartoon reinforces this view which Lucas is on record saying it’s the same to him as the movies as far as canon goes.

    So in each and every canon the force is the god of Starwars.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2019-12-31 at 04:50 PM.

  3. #5363
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Your post doesn’t really make sense to read so I’ll just respond to the divine part.

    To the Jedi the force or more strictly the light side is very much so divine/god the Jedi order is a religion based off of it as are the sith. The force is very much so the god of the Starwars universe guiding and binding every thing and the Jedi very much so treat it as one in all Starwars canons.

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    Lucas stated numerous times that he didn’t deal with the Eu that it was to much for him to keep track of that he didn’t read the books and saw them as an alternate universe. Sure he could have been lying though this teeth all of those times but I’ve never seen any statements to point other wise.
    He may have said that but the authors also clearly stated he gave them direction, so i guess he was either full of shit or did it to spite all the angry nerds on the internet arguing about it.

  4. #5364
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta333 View Post
    He may have said that but the authors also clearly stated he gave them direction, so i guess he was either full of shit or did it to spite all the angry nerds on the internet arguing about it.
    Lucas said a Lot of nonsense but this is one he restated again and again so I can’t say I doubt it. It could very well be that the authors were referring to his basic outlines stuff like not being able to show anakins birth/father.

  5. #5365
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    My "hostility" is because they decanonized everything including the Thrawn trilogy which is a much better story than the shitshow that is the sequel trilogy. It's not one person it was the official system the canon categories are at the bottom of the article.
    I really don't understand this obsession people have with "cannon" vs. "non-cannon". At the end of the day, these stories only exist in your head, and nothing is actually "cannon". Nothing is stopping you from going on with the notion that the Thrawn trilogy is "real" Star Wars, because in reality there is no Star Wars.

  6. #5366
    Has anyone else facepalmed at the effects they used for blowing up a planet? Fire, Smoke and Chunks of planet like a real explosion ? Is this 1960?

    It's 2020. Pretty sure blowing up a planet involves more physics than just blowing a grenade.

  7. #5367
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cordrann View Post
    I really don't understand this obsession people have with "cannon" vs. "non-cannon". At the end of the day, these stories only exist in your head, and nothing is actually "cannon". Nothing is stopping you from going on with the notion that the Thrawn trilogy is "real" Star Wars, because in reality there is no Star Wars.
    The whole point of canon is that when new content for something comes out it pulls from what’s canon. For example we’re not gonna get star trek characters showing up in Starwars so if you want it to be canon that the empire will fight the borg there’s never gonna be any content based on that.

    So if you want new content where the thrawn trilogy happens and is referenced your kinda screwed but if you don’t care about new content and you just want the old stuff then canon doesn’t matter.

  8. #5368
    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    I don't care about a personal opinion you're allowed to have them, but when you start attacking others who enjoy it, directors, actors, etc you're a terrible "fan".
    You can proudly declare yourself a fan of the Transformers movies, or Batman & Robin, but few do, because those films are terrible.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  9. #5369
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    You can proudly declare yourself a fan of the Transformers movies, or Batman & Robin, but few do, because those films are terrible.
    I’d proudly say I’m a fan of batman and robin it’s an awful movie but awful in a great way, my favourite batman movie in fact.

  10. #5370
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    I’d proudly say I’m a fan of batman and robin it’s an awful movie but awful in a great way, my favourite batman movie in fact.
    "Hey Batman, what killed the dinosaurs!? The ice age!!!"
    "Everybody chill, chill! CHILL!" *while firing freeze gun*
    "Let's kick some ice!"
    "I'm afraid the air conditioners left me COLD to your pleas of mercy."
    "Ice to see you."
    "You're not sending me to the cooler!"

  11. #5371
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    "Hey Batman, what killed the dinosaurs!? The ice age!!!"
    "Everybody chill, chill! CHILL!" *while firing freeze gun*
    "Let's kick some ice!"
    "I'm afraid the air conditioners left me COLD to your pleas of mercy."
    "Ice to see you."
    "You're not sending me to the cooler!"
    See no other batman movie has such cool puns that’s what makes it the best!

  12. #5372
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    See no other batman movie has such cool puns that’s what makes it the best!
    Well it definitely made me laugh, but not for the right reasons, I was laughing at it, not with it, not sure that's what Joel Schumacher intended, but that whole movie was just a 90 minute toy commercial anyway.

    One movie that's so bad it's good I love is Street Fighter, but it's just because of how amazing Raul Julia is. That man was so talented, nothing he did was ever bad.

  13. #5373
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Well it definitely made me laugh, but not for the right reasons, I was laughing at it, not with it, not sure that's what Joel Schumacher intended, but that whole movie was just a 90 minute toy commercial anyway.

    One movie that's so bad it's good I love is Street Fighter, but it's just because of how amazing Raul Julia is. That man was so talented, nothing he did was ever bad.
    If you can’t get abunch of horrible ice puns out of a batman movie what’s the point. I mean I could make orphans fight for my entertainment at any orphanage.

  14. #5374
    It was an amazing movie and a fit ending for for the franchise.

  15. #5375
    I just realized another flaw in the whole sequel series because of JJ loving to rehash and copy:

    The galactic government let hundred of thousands of kids get kidnapped by the first order as well as millions kidnapped by Palpatine. There are only 2 wayfinders in existence how on earth did they get all those kids to the planet when both wayfinders were outside in the normal galaxy? And even if they could go out, how did anyone not notice ships larger enough to hold that many kids? Or did Palpatine just grab a handful and when they became adults and had em fuck like rabbits? Or did he send people there before he died and everyone is just like 60-70 years old?

  16. #5376
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    As for Poe "needing" to destroy the Dreadnaught....no. The plan, as agreed upon, was to jump to hyperspace and flee, but Poe felt the need to destroy the Dreadnaught cause it was too big a trophy for him to pass up. If they couldn't trace through hyperspace, again, that plan would have worked, and the bombers would have been intact and fine. They obviously didn't know that they could be tracked, but they had the best plan for what they knew. He only "saved" them inadvertently, by complete fucking accident, because had the Dreadnaught come out on the other side of the hyperspace jump, it would have been able to easily destroy the fleet, unlike the other ships.
    Your last line is correct, which is why Poe was correct. If they give up their chance to destroy the Dreadnought, as Poe did, it's going to continue to wreak havoc. Even if they were able to get away with the light speed jump, the Dreadnought would annihilate them at a later point. Fortunately for Poe, we get to find out immediately that he's the smartest guy in the organization as they all would have been immediately killed if Poe did not take the Dreadnought out.

    And now that we know Poe's the smartest guy there, he has a command level rank, the troops admire him, and you know he will take initiative to make his own plans when he sees a need, and he's going to do whatever it takes to save the resistance, which is exactly why you include him in the planning committee.

    "but Holdo didn't know who the mole was"...yeah, probably the guy that just destroyed the biggest weapon your enemy has, that would have taken them years to make including an incredible amount of resources...yeah, that guy's the mole.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  17. #5377
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    Your last line is correct, which is why Poe was correct. If they give up their chance to destroy the Dreadnought, as Poe did, it's going to continue to wreak havoc. Even if they were able to get away with the light speed jump, the Dreadnought would annihilate them at a later point. Fortunately for Poe, we get to find out immediately that he's the smartest guy in the organization as they all would have been immediately killed if Poe did not take the Dreadnought out.
    Except they didn't know the hypothetical still-around Dreadnaught could follow them through hyperspace. I don't know much about the Disney canon, but the understanding I got from the movie was that was a Very Big Deal which had never happened before. If they escape, they escape. And if they escape without Poe's disobedience, they escape with more people and more ships. You can't 20/20 Poe's decision as "right" because it eventually saved their ass due to information neither Poe nor the command structure knew.

    And the whole "at a later point" is a moot point. Yeah, sure, maybe they run across the Dreadnaught in 7 years. Presumably, they'd be better prepared then, as opposed to now, when they're literally fleeing with the barest scraps of their base from TFA and the battle on Starkiller Base.

    And Poe didn't have a command rank any more. Leia literally demoted him for his rashness. At this point, you're questioning Leia's competence and her sway with the troops, and their trust in her. Do you think the troops trusted Poe more than Leia? Cause I don't. She's an OG. She was there on Endor, and Hoth before that, and Yavin before that. Poe's.......what, a good pilot?

  18. #5378
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    The whole point of canon is that when new content for something comes out it pulls from what’s canon. For example we’re not gonna get star trek characters showing up in Starwars so if you want it to be canon that the empire will fight the borg there’s never gonna be any content based on that.

    So if you want new content where the thrawn trilogy happens and is referenced your kinda screwed but if you don’t care about new content and you just want the old stuff then canon doesn’t matter.
    Completely agree. Also to add why some of us got upset with the move to de-canonize Legends material; we have invested 20 years to reading the books, playing the games, etc. etc. So after 20 years, and reading more than 100 books, I've got a pretty good idea of how Lucas' universe works and what's in it. Then for Disney to say it's going to be too hard to make movies from that material, so we are just going to write a new better EU. Some may say that I'm dumb for getting invested in a make believe fantasy world to the point where I would read all that material, and maybe they are right. But the point is, Lucasfilm also made that point clear to me when they created "Legends". Which is why I won't bother reading any of the new Disney EU. However pointless it may or may not have been before, it is even more so now that Disney has shown they will arbitrarily toss their own lore in the garbage when it convenient to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    And Poe didn't have a command rank any more. Leia literally demoted him for his rashness. At this point, you're questioning Leia's competence and her sway with the troops, and their trust in her. Do you think the troops trusted Poe more than Leia? Cause I don't. She's an OG. She was there on Endor, and Hoth before that, and Yavin before that. Poe's.......what, a good pilot?
    Poe was demoted, but still had a command rank. He wouldn't be next in charge otherwise when Holdo dies.

    Yes, Leia made an error when she said to abort the attack on the dreadnought. She couldn't know what was going to happen next, but if Poe obeyed her order, everyone was dead.

    At the point that the troops listened to Poe over Leia and continued the attack on the dreadnought instead of listening to Leia, it was pretty obvious they trusted Poe more than Leia. That trust would have been buoyed by the fact that the troops would have known they would all be dead if they didn't follow Poe's orders.

    Leia is an OG who made a bad call on the dreadnought. Poe is a great pilot, the tactical field commander of their fighter craft wing, and 2nd in command after Holdo dies, and someone who made a great call that saved the entire Resistance. ...unless you think Rey going to solo the New Order.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  19. #5379
    I never got the impression Poe was "Next in Charge" if Holdo died. I was under the impression he led a mutiny, and that plain, dour looking woman who was serving Holdo was second in charge (she was also Leia's second in charge?)

    There was literally a whole makeshift bridge (as the original bridge was blown up on the Raddus) of people who knew Holdo's plan and were executing it, including said unnamed woman. I imagine that was the command structure, though if anyone has clarity on that I'd love to hear it.

    I'd be very surprised if a Captain was 2nd in charge to an Admiral, considering Holdo herself had just been promoted up from Vice-Admiral, and we know there's a Commander rank which Poe was demoted from, and I'm assuming there's other Commanders.

  20. #5380
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    The whole point of canon is that when new content for something comes out it pulls from what’s canon. For example we’re not gonna get star trek characters showing up in Starwars so if you want it to be canon that the empire will fight the borg there’s never gonna be any content based on that.

    So if you want new content where the thrawn trilogy happens and is referenced your kinda screwed but if you don’t care about new content and you just want the old stuff then canon doesn’t matter.
    I mean not really, as a creator if you reference something then it becomes canon. The point is more that it precludes possibilities. The characters can't have been doing X at Y time because we know what they were canonically up to.

    Some people seem to require it to imagine "correctly" I guess? It all seems like a very silly thing to worry about, given how easily it can be swept up and changed. Imagine things however you like, and for Pete's sake don't worry at all about how other people imagine it.

    For the purposes of some kind of technical debate it has a kind of relevance, but the idea that we should be grateful that St. Thrawn has been canonized is so absurd it makes me chuckle.

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