Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[Ragedaug]

I never got the impression Poe was "Next in Charge" if Holdo died. I was under the impression he led a mutiny, and that plain, dour looking woman who was serving Holdo was second in charge (she was also Leia's second in charge?)

There was literally a whole makeshift bridge (as the original bridge was blown up on the Raddus) of people who knew Holdo's plan and were executing it, including said unnamed woman. I imagine that was the command structure, though if anyone has clarity on that I'd love to hear it.

I'd be very surprised if a Captain was 2nd in charge to an Admiral, considering Holdo herself had just been promoted up from Vice-Admiral, and we know there's a Commander rank which Poe was demoted from, and I'm assuming there's other Commanders.

If Poe's not 2nd in charge, you have to explain how he's in charge after Leia.

As far as compartmentalizing the plan from your leaders, this movie explains exactly why that doesn't work. Even if Poe was the mole, or regardless of who the mole is (if they had one), as soon as they start boarding the landers, the mole would let the FO know what they were doing. If they had a mole, the FO would have known the plan before DJ had a chance to spill it. So hiding the plan from Poe would not have helped them regardless. By shielding the plan from key leaders, you remove any chance of helpful input they may have to help improve the plan, and increase the risk they'll do something to spoil the plan, because they have no idea of what the plan is...which is what happened.

Holdo = 1 bad decision after another, ad infinitum.

[eschatological]

If Poe's not 2nd in charge, you have to explain how he's in charge after Leia.

As far as compartmentalizing the plan from your leaders, this movie explains exactly why that doesn't work. Even if Poe was the mole, or regardless of who the mole is (if they had one), as soon as they start boarding the landers, the mole would let the FO know what they were doing. If they had a mole, the FO would have known the plan before DJ had a chance to spill it. So hiding the plan from Poe would not have helped them regardless. By shielding the plan from key leaders, you remove any chance of helpful input they may have to help improve the plan, and increase the risk they'll do something to spoil the plan, because they have no idea of what the plan is...which is what happened.

Holdo = 1 bad decision after another, ad infinitum.

You mean how he's second in charge after the movie ends? I imagine Leia saw he learned his lesson and was willing to promote him with Holdo dead. I took it to mean that Leia was "anointing" him as 2nd in charge in that moment, and a promotion would be hashed out later.

Does he have a rank in TRoS? I've still not seen it yet. But from a quick google search, the ranks are General (Leia) -> Admiral -> Colonel -> Commander (Poe's rank at the beginning of TLJ) -> Major -> Captain (his rank after demotion) -> Lieutenant.

So if all the admirals and colonels are dead, and Poe is at least ranked back up to Commander, or maybe even Colonel, then yeah, he could be 2nd in charge. A lot of people died in this movie. There's literally one Millennium Falcon's worth of them left.

That doesn't mean he belonged in the command structure prior to the end of the movie.

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Also, Poe didn't know the transports were being fueled until he saw a screen on the bridge. Obviously it was being done covertly.

And when you have a leak of information, you hold onto information tightly, and make it so that if they eventually have to know something because it'll be impossible to hide, make sure they know it at the last possible second. Which is precisely what Holdo did.

[Kyphael]

If you can’t get abunch of horrible ice puns out of a batman movie what’s the point. I mean I could make orphans fight for my entertainment at any orphanage.

Lol whuh? I mean, my favorite Batman movie featuring Mr. Freeze is the animated feature.



Good comic relief from Robin as usual, but still a good Batman story.

[Skulltaker]

I never got the impression Poe was "Next in Charge" if Holdo died. I was under the impression he led a mutiny, and that plain, dour looking woman who was serving Holdo was second in charge (she was also Leia's second in charge?)

There was literally a whole makeshift bridge (as the original bridge was blown up on the Raddus) of people who knew Holdo's plan and were executing it, including said unnamed woman. I imagine that was the command structure, though if anyone has clarity on that I'd love to hear it.

I'd be very surprised if a Captain was 2nd in charge to an Admiral, considering Holdo herself had just been promoted up from Vice-Admiral, and we know there's a Commander rank which Poe was demoted from, and I'm assuming there's other Commanders.

I assume the dour looking woman you're referring to is Commander D'Acy, who served with Resistance Ground Forces. While technically outranking Poe, she has no authority on fleet operations. The only other named character on the bridge would be Lieutenant Connix, played by Carrie Fisher's daughter, Billy Lourd. As far as named characters go, Poe was the second highest ranking fleet officer on the Raddus, even after his demotion, and the fourth-highest overall ranking officer known by name. Unless D'acy got an impromptu transfer from ground forces to navy, Poe was still Holdo's second in command, being the only captain assigned to the Raddus. He was also the fourth-highest (named) ranking member of the surviving military, after D'Acy, Holdo and Ematt, General of Ground forces, veteran of Hoth and Endor.

[Volatilis]

I don't mind the transformer movies, they are fine for what I expect.

yes when you think of transformers you think of pedo jokes/conversation. Mark Walhbergs love life and whatever super hottie they have as the female lead talking about when shes gonna have a baby. 360 panning shots and American flags.

Those movies are disgusting to the senses and are also shot out of frame / wrong aspect ratio so you cant even enjoy the mindless cgi action that looks like junkyard cars mating each other.

If people are super unhappy with the star wars movies, you know what the thread is supposed to be about make sure you check out the mandolorian. Its great

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I mean not really, as a creator if you reference something then it becomes canon. The point is more that it precludes possibilities. The characters can't have been doing X at Y time because we know what they were canonically up to.

Some people seem to require it to imagine "correctly" I guess? It all seems like a very silly thing to worry about, given how easily it can be swept up and changed. Imagine things however you like, and for Pete's sake don't worry at all about how other people imagine it.

For the purposes of some kind of technical debate it has a kind of relevance, but the idea that we should be grateful that St. Thrawn has been canonized is so absurd it makes me chuckle.

it precluding possibility's would be part of them pulling from the canon, you know what happened before and you know how that effects the characters and what happens after it.

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Lol whuh? I mean, my favorite Batman movie featuring Mr. Freeze is the animated feature.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....ZL._SY445_.jpg

Good comic relief from Robin as usual, but still a good Batman story.

animated movies don't count as those tend to be good unlike most live action batmen.

[Kyphael]

yes when you think of transformers you think of pedo jokes/conversation. Mark Walhbergs love life and whatever super hottie they have as the female lead talking about when shes gonna have a baby. 360 panning shots and American flags.

Those movies are disgusting to the senses and are also shot out of frame / wrong aspect ratio so you cant even enjoy the mindless cgi action that looks like junkyard cars mating each other.

If people are super unhappy with the star wars movies, you know what the thread is supposed to be about make sure you check out the mandolorian. Its great

Blame Michael Bay. He's a total hack and caters to the lowest common denominator. But as long as the 18-49 male demographic keep showing up to see hot women and fast cars, he'll keep finding employment. Really, it's more of a reflection on what society at large finds good.

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animated movies don't count as those tend to be good unlike most live action batmen.

Well, The Dark Knight trilogy was awesome. If it possible to make excellent, serious Batman movies. At one point I had hoped Mr. Freeze was going to be the villain of The Dark Knight Rises. I would have liked to see what Nolan could have done with him. A chemical terrorist would have fit perfectly with annexing Gotham and holding it for ransom like Bane did. It just wouldn't have made sense for Victor Fries to have ties with Ra's Al Ghul.

[Aurrora]

They did not decanonize anything. If you bothered to listen to George Lucas interviews not some employee at Lucas arts your thick skull would know one thing.

That the ONLY Canon was the movies. Period. Lucas own words on the matter.

Thrawn was nothing more than a fanfic wet dream until Disney made him canon.

Fuck off with this bullshit, Lucasfilm signed off on it, Lucas profited from it, the EU was canon. If your point of view is that the only things canonical are what Lucas deems canonical then the entire sequel trilogy and all of the Disney cartoons, books and comics are fan fiction too.

[Frontenac]

Fuck off with this bullshit, Lucasfilm signed off on it, Lucas profited from it, the EU was canon. If your point of view is that the only things canonical are what Lucas deems canonical then the entire sequel trilogy and all of the Disney cartoons, books and comics are fan fiction too.

Lucas wrote the prequels without any consideration for the EU. He just took what he liked in them (basically Coruscant), then ignored the rest. No Dreadnaughts, no Garm Bel Iblis, no Victory Star Destroyers and the clones were on the Republic's side instead of being the enemy lead by the Clone Masters.

[Zaktar]

Lucas wrote the prequels without any consideration for the EU. He just took what he liked in them (basically Coruscant), then ignored the rest. No Dreadnaughts, no Garm Bel Iblis, no Victory Star Destroyers and the clones were on the Republic's side instead of being the enemy lead by the Clone Masters.

And this new trilogy showed significant respect to the Disney EU?

[Skulltaker]

Lucas wrote the prequels without any consideration for the EU. He just took what he liked in them (basically Coruscant), then ignored the rest. No Dreadnaughts, no Garm Bel Iblis, no Victory Star Destroyers and the clones were on the Republic's side instead of being the enemy lead by the Clone Masters.

The Providence Class ships were created as a tribute to the old Dreadnought design.

[I Push Buttons]

Damn John Boyega has already achieved Harrison Ford levels of not giving a fuck.

[Skulltaker]

Damn John Boyega has already achieved Harrison Ford levels of not giving a fuck.

Bit OT, but what exactly did he say?

[Ezyah]

My old self being a game master in dungeon and dragon and dropping random acme anvil on my players s characters when they were doing something i did not like would have done a better job at writting the scenario

"Poe i hate you and i will sell your friends for the reward ! "
*get thrown on the ground*
-there is good in you we now are friends and i will jeopardize my future to help you

Gosh....

At least daisy ridley is hot..

[I Push Buttons]

Bit OT, but what exactly did he say?

He made a joke about Finn banging Rey with some crude language (in the small text on the left), perpetually offended people were offended, and he's just been doubling down and mocking them.

[Frontenac]

The Providence Class ships were created as a tribute to the old Dreadnought design.

In Legends, maybe. Not in real life and not in the official storyline. The first time we saw one dreadnaught was in Rebels. A Disney production.

[Aurrora]

C) you're forgetting the situation set up in the movie: that the First Order had somehow tracked the fleet through hyperspace, and Holdo didn't know if she had a rat on board with a transponder or something, and had to compartmentalize information.

This is headcannon being used to post-justify Holdo's terrible leadership. Nowhere in the movie or the novelization are we led to believe Holdo is keeping the plan quiet because she believes there's a spy. If there was a spy they would have informed the First Order of the plan as soon as they boarded the transports. On top of that we have multiple people who realistically should know the plan go along with the mutiny: Lieutenant Connix who is on the bridge the entire time but somehow doesn't know of the plan, Rose Tico who is apparently their top engineer based on the Rose Tico comic, should have known that the transports were being fueled and Poe Dameron, who despite being demoted by Leia is the highest ranked of the Raddus's surviving officers following the bridge being destroyed.

Not to mention that the entire plan was hinged on the First Order not bothering to scan for cloaked ships when the Resistance fleet flew within transport distance of a habitable planet, nope nothing suspicious about that at all after hours of flying through deep space.

The beam laser wasn't weak. It one shot the door.

For miniaturized Death Star tech that's super weak when we see the same miniaturized tech in the next movie destroy an entire planet.

RJ didn't set up their doom and then relieve the tension of it. What he did was have Poe make the (right) decision to flee, with the information he had - which didn't include Luke showing up.

No, at this point fleeing was the wrong decision, he had no way of knowing Luke was going to show up to save them or that there was a back way out of the base. At this point Poe is entirely motivated by fear of losing more people under his command and getting another dressing down for it.

As for Poe "needing" to destroy the Dreadnaught....no. The plan, as agreed upon, was to jump to hyperspace and flee, but Poe felt the need to destroy the Dreadnaught cause it was too big a trophy for him to pass up. If they couldn't trace through hyperspace, again, that plan would have worked, and the bombers would have been intact and fine. They obviously didn't know that they could be tracked, but they had the best plan for what they knew. He only "saved" them inadvertently, by complete fucking accident, because had the Dreadnaught come out on the other side of the hyperspace jump, it would have been able to easily destroy the fleet, unlike the other ships.

Destroying the dreadnaught was always the plan. The bombers were already sortied when Poe was attacking the dreadnaught, he was destroying the point defense cannons specifically so the bombers could attack, then mid-operation Leia decided to change the plan. The bombers and the fleet would have been lost if they called off the attack at this point, the dreadnaught's cannons would have been ready to shoot at the Raddus before those slow ass bombers made it back to the ships.

[Skulltaker]

In Legends, maybe. Not in real life and not in the official storyline. The first time we saw one dreadnaught was in Rebels. A Disney production.

Providence-Class is Grievous Flagship in the Battle of Coruscant, at the opening of Revenge of the Sith. It bears a striking resemblance to Dreadnoughts in the X-Wing/TIE Fighter Games. The only thing they added was the conning tower and an elongated nose.

He made a joke about Finn banging Rey with some crude language (in the small text on the left), perpetually offended people were offended, and he's just been doubling down and mocking them.

Ah. Mkay. So, a joke in maybe poor taste and way to much fuzz about it.

[PACOX]

Damn John Boyega has already achieved Harrison Ford levels of not giving a fuck.

People on Twitter need to get the hell over themselves and stop thinking the world exists to serve their self interests.

My man is clearly having fun and people want to get all serious because he used some colorful language.

[Shadowferal]

I think Boyega knows his time with Disney is done.