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  1. #41
    Well, I am all for it to give more dmg so if you take the others talents, you are in line with others class and specs, but if you pick BT, you do more dmg.

    Other than that, I am fine with BT because the specs would be boring if it was not here and it makes the specs compelling (that is precisely why I picked feral as main for BFA because all others specs are so bland and boring to play).

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Well, I am all for it to give more dmg so if you take the others talents, you are in line with others class and specs, but if you pick BT, you do more dmg.

    Other than that, I am fine with BT because the specs would be boring if it was not here and it makes the specs compelling (that is precisely why I picked feral as main for BFA because all others specs are so bland and boring to play).
    problem is if it doesn't outshine the other options people wont use it.. that's just bad design.
    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  3. #43
    I would even if it was on par with the other options because they are so bland, passive and boring.

    If it was subpar, which would make no sense as it is harder to manage, maybe I would not, but I am not so sure about that.

  4. #44
    Hybrid gameplay:

    No, Hybrid gameplay is NOT dead. Not at all! In fact, with BfA, Blizzard buffed Balance and Restoration Affinities a lot. I can now heal myself to full with Resto Affinity without going OoM - I can also do ok damage in Moonkin, with Balance Affinity.

    They even buffed Feral Affinity by at least 15% - so Druids having some Hybrid gameplay back is not some kind of balancing error.

    They also added more baseline talents, like Mangle.

    Hybrid gameplay is very much back - not as much as it has been before Legion, but we're getting there. And ofc it can be balanced. The main reason why Blizzard separated Guardian from the Feral spec was because Feral tanks were too competitive in 10 man raiding in Cataclysm. Instead of fixing what was a broken (and now reformed) raiding format, they axed the Feral spec.

    The good thing with Druid Hybridity is that it gives us utility. And utility gives us spots in different kinds of content.

    You can choose not to use this Hybridity. Of course you can. Just like Rogues can choose not to spec Cheat Death etc. You can always make yourself a worse player by deliberately choosing NOT to perform to the best of your spec's ability.

    PvP:

    Those stating that WoW is not a PvP game should have their eyes checked. Blizzard is releasing Battle for Azeroth in a few hours from now - an expansion with a LOT of PvP changes.

    And when I say a lot, I mean a historical high number of PvP changes. This is THE PvP expansion - literally! World PvP is now integrated, loads of the new content will be PvP enabled, the whole Honor system has been revamped, the PvP talents have been revamped, Blizzard has released a new BG, a lot of PvP systems from Legion have been axed as well.

    Oh - the whole expansion is built on the conflict between Horde and Alliance. The whole selling point is exactly that!

    So please keep telling the rest of us how WoW is NOT a PvP game. I'll go with the facts instead: WoW is very much a PvP game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    For those who still believe that a "hard" rotation is a sign of being the more "pro" player - and that it's just better than an "easier" rotation - some food for thought:

    https://getpocket.com/a/read/2275100314

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Icon View Post
    problem is if it doesn't outshine the other options people wont use it.. that's just bad design.
    That goes for all talents, it's not unique to BT.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    That goes for all talents, it's not unique to BT.
    it is if you are interested in bleed builds. because that is what they'll balance it around.
    BT fans act like it's a thing that's always been around but it hasn't. feral was a bleed build before BT and it'll most likely be one if BT is gone aswell.
    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  7. #47
    Over 9000! Yggdrasil's Avatar
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    Don't worry when you are 120 you will feel the desire to have more haste really badly

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Yggdrasil View Post
    Don't worry when you are 120 you will feel the desire to have more haste really badly
    How so? Because you get energy drained fast? Because if you do, with a low item level, it’s a good thing. It leaves us room to evolve, because the better gear will allow for faster energy and combo point generation. Being GCD capped as freshly dinged 120 would not be good.

    And I am not talking about nerfing Feral as a spec. I am talking about changing the damage model by gaining less from Haste.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Icon View Post
    it is if you are interested in bleed builds. because that is what they'll balance it around.
    BT fans act like it's a thing that's always been around but it hasn't. feral was a bleed build before BT and it'll most likely be one if BT is gone aswell.
    Well said.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Icon View Post
    it is if you are interested in bleed builds. because that is what they'll balance it around.
    BT fans act like it's a thing that's always been around but it hasn't. feral was a bleed build before BT and it'll most likely be one if BT is gone aswell.
    Obviously, but BT is what give a little more flavor to Feral. If BT was not here, it would bland and boring as the others specs in the game.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitepaw View Post
    How so? Because you get energy drained fast? Because if you do, with a low item level, it’s a good thing. It leaves us room to evolve, because the better gear will allow for faster energy and combo point generation. Being GCD capped as freshly dinged 120 would not be good.

    And I am not talking about nerfing Feral as a spec. I am talking about changing the damage model by gaining less from Haste.

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    Well said.
    No because secondary specs are almost non-exsistant and the curve of which they go up is way way less than it was in past expansions. Primary stats are the ones that grow at the higher curve. Honestly, haste now was based for 120. At 120 it will be what it should be with the %haste you have. Which will be far less then you will even on the last patch of BFA conpared to what you have going into it at 110 end game of Legion.

    Unless the change it of course.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitepaw View Post
    At the start of Legion, Feral got a Haste multiplier (+50%).

    Together with the changes made in the BfA pre-patch, this now means that Haste is a LOT better than any other stats - and that every talent enhancing our bleeds are far superior.

    The consequence is that Feral can only do competitive dps in certain situations - and that we don't have any burst left in our spec.

    So: Remove our Haste multiplier, buff our direct damage abilities.
    BfA literally just came out yesterday.

    You are making an assessment and crying for a nerf WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY too damn soon. Seriously. You have zero effective data to back up any assessment you've made as you haven't seen any results of the current Feral stat weights in any raids whatsoever.
    If we could all sit and talk without demonizing one another and attempt to understand the opposite point of view, the collective world would be a better place. Mental bigotry is the worst of all.

  12. #52
    tbh i wish they'd just actually finish removing shapshotting

  13. #53
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    Haha I was expecting Feral to be pretty horrible with low haste, but it's horribleness surpassed my expectations tenfold. The only usefulness I have in dungeons right now at 120 is my off-healing.

    Every class is gonna have a grind to get back to respectable DPS but some classes got hit harder than others. Feral is definitely one of those classes. *shakes fist* Damn you haste!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garybear View Post
    tbh i wish they'd just actually finish removing shapshotting
    Please, no. Snapshotting is the only thing that keeps Feral gameplay unique.

  14. #54
    Given the horrible state of feral DPS isn't arguing over how poorly implemented BT etc is a bit like two bald men arguing over a comb?

  15. #55
    Personally, the whole "stack buff to make your rip as high damage as possible" gameplay is a bit horrible. They should remove a lot of the rip boosting abilities and put it all directly in rip itself.

    BT should only boost shread and swipe/brutal slash(single/aoe) abilities, and just have rip do more damage by default. Let it scale with atk power/agi only.

    This would make the rotation a lot more natural in itself. Keep your dots up, makes sure to abuse your procs(clearcasting, etc). Not have a nearly 100% dps dip if you fail 1 rotation, and to end up being bottom of dps chart anyways even if you do it correctly, or mostly correct.

    The dps difference is just too gigantic. Talent are suppose to be to tailor your class so it feels better for you, not have a mandatory one in each level, where not picking it drops you down to abysmal levels.
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  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by meowfurion View Post
    BfA literally just came out yesterday.

    You are making an assessment and crying for a nerf WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY too damn soon. Seriously. You have zero effective data to back up any assessment you've made as you haven't seen any results of the current Feral stat weights in any raids whatsoever.
    Well we do know what the stat weights are, at the least you could say they are unusual.

    However Feral is so incredibly awful right now that I would focus on what needs to be buffed before looking at what needs to be nerfed.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by teddabear View Post
    Well we do know what the stat weights are, at the least you could say they are unusual.

    However Feral is so incredibly awful right now that I would focus on what needs to be buffed before looking at what needs to be nerfed.
    Precisely.

    I am struggling to kill just mediocre shit for quests. I see arms and fury warriors just coming in and whirlwinding like twice, and MELTING every goddamn thing. I'm fed up with feral cat being constantly dismissed and underpowered expansion after expansion.
    If we could all sit and talk without demonizing one another and attempt to understand the opposite point of view, the collective world would be a better place. Mental bigotry is the worst of all.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitepaw View Post
    At the start of Legion, Feral got a Haste multiplier (+50%).

    Together with the changes made in the BfA pre-patch, this now means that Haste is a LOT better than any other stats - and that every talent enhancing our bleeds are far superior.

    The consequence is that Feral can only do competitive dps in certain situations - and that we don't have any burst left in our spec.

    So: Remove our Haste multiplier, buff our direct damage abilities.
    Originally I agreed with this in principle assuming the whole spec received a rework.

    Now that there are multiple ilvl profiles in Simulationcraft I have to come out against it. Feral scaling is mediocre even with the high haste value.

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