Great to See Shaman DPS DOMINATING.... Finally!

[Nize]

OP setting himself up for some MAJOR heartbreak in about a month.

[-aiko-]

Okay.
Why?

*rolls eyes*
Pre-patch is essentially broken. I don't need to explain it any further than that. Certain trinkets are broken from the squish, some classes can now stack legendaries with their talent versions, set bonuses aren't all working as they used to, etc. For fuck's sake, some classes are going to change how they play entirely after losing legendaries (such as boomkins, who currently take Emerald Dreamcatcher).

Pre-patch and 120 are two different games. The end.

[Grimbold21]

What spec are these folks using at 120? The icy veins one?

[Kralljin]

*rolls eyes*
Pre-patch is essentially broken. I don't need to explain it any further than that. Certain trinkets are broken from the squish, some classes can now stack legendaries with their talent versions, set bonuses aren't all working as they used to, etc.

To quote myself

2.Enhance has shit legendaries compared to other classes (Which is something i would like to have verified)
3.Enhance has a shit set bonus (Also, source on that)
4.Enhance scales poorly with the Antorus trinket(s) (again, source pls)

And you replied

None of those points you presented mean anything.

In other words, you first out call my reasoning as meaningless, then you resort to the very same reasoning.

[Deleted]

My Boy Chase M from Baytown Texas, now living in Houston sent me a text message today. As it turns out, we're golden shammy family.

You see I've always played Shaman, sometimes with my buddy Craig P outta Winnipeg MB, and sometimes without him, but always to the best of the class ability. Unless I was drunk, which I was, for the last 5 years.

I battled addiction like anyone else, and for a time even helped lead a Realm First Guild. Something Sneak I L wasn't there for because he usually quits to early in expansions. He'll quit again this expansion, he's married now, family changes everything, especially with a game like WoW.

Anyways I gave up drinking. And what a perfect time.

Shaman back on top!

https://simulationcraft.org/reports/PR_Raid.html

After reading that I can only be happy for you.
Go get em, you're golden now!

[-aiko-]

What spec are these folks using at 120? The icy veins one?

If you scroll down (or click on the damage bar next to a spec) you can see the full details of the spec, including talents.

In other words, you first out call my reasoning as meaningless, then you resort to the very same reasoning.

[freddy090909]

Just a heads up on that (completely pointless, even if this weren't the case) sim: Enh is the only spec that even has azerite traits in their profile... of course it will be performing well.

[-aiko-]

Just a heads up on that (completely pointless, even if this weren't the case) sim: Enh is the only spec that even has azerite traits in their profile... of course it will be performing well.

Which I find pretty interesting and positive. Azerite traits may be more useful than we thought.

The majority are still boring looking, sure, but I mean that's been the case for a lot of set bonuses too. At least they will be useful!

[Grimbold21]

If you scroll down (or click on the damage bar next to a spec) you can see the full details of the spec, including talents.

Interesting to see Rockbitter being used

Edit: i meant Landslide

[Primemrip]

Okay.
Why?

Like explain it, the only way your original argument makes sense if those points somehow affect each spec differently, as then some spec would obviously "lose more" from a certain aspect.
If Enhancement for example has a very weak set bonus, you "lose less" in comparison to someone that has a very strong set bonus, a shift in power between 110 and 120 would apply.

In the past that argument made sense, as classes / specs picked up new spells on their way to max level, some received dps buttons, some utility, that obviously affected pre patch.
But not in BfA, you do not gain anything impactful on your way to 120 nor is there anything on 120 that seriously reshuffles the field.



Now you're just moving the goalpost, you're basically just naming things that might change that.
Will they happen? Obviously, but neither you nor me knows what changes, so stick to the situation on live or on beta, not on some potential scenario in the future.

Look at Sub rogue. The second on the sim list. They don't have any of their traits enabled on the sim, and that goes for every other spec on there.

Some sims are wearing green questing gear. Some don't have the Heart of Azeroth Neck. Every single one but the Enhance Shamans is done without the Azerite Traits.

[Kralljin]

Look at Sub rogue. The second on the sim list. They don't have any of their traits enabled on the sim, and that goes for every other spec on there.

Some sims are wearing green questing gear. Some don't have the Heart of Azeroth Neck. Every single one but the Enhance Shamans is done without the Azerite Traits.

That makes the chart inaccurate, yeah, however that wasn't the point here.
I mean it explains why Enhance is on top, because the profile it is more realistic / finished than others.

[Primemrip]

That makes the chart inaccurate, yeah, however that wasn't the point here.
I mean it explains why Enhance is on top, because the profile it is more realistic / finished than others.

Can you restate your point then please, because I'm missing it then.

I thought we were trying to dispute that shaman was only topping sims because it is a finished spec in the sims, while other specs are still awaiting completion and that is why they are lacking.

[s3ge]

Seems wrong that ele is so far ahead of Brewmasters.

[Kralljin]

I thought we were trying to dispute that shaman was only topping sims because it is a finished spec in the sims, while other specs are still awaiting completion and that is why they are lacking.

The argument is basically that due the fact we are in fact not gaining a lot of new things in BfA (Aside from Azerite traits, which aren't that impactful) the state we now see on live is much closer to the state at max level as opposed to previous expansions.

Obviously we are losing things on the way to 120, but for this to matter or rather switch places on the dps chart, the delta of power that certain legendaries / Set bonuses provide must be rather big.

In other words, i say that if a spec is bad / good on live, they'll be most likely in the same / similiar position on 120.

Because the argument "Pre Patch doesn't matter, it's balanced for max level" is a rather common theme in these threads, However in my opinion live does already reflect the state on 120 rather well.

[Stormbreed]

The argument is basically that due the fact we are in fact not gaining a lot of new things in BfA (Aside from Azerite traits, which aren't that impactful) the state we now see on live is much closer to the state at max level as opposed to previous expansions.

Obviously we are losing things on the way to 120, but for this to matter or rather switch places on the dps chart, the delta of power that certain legendaries / Set bonuses provide must be rather big.

In other words, i say that if a spec is bad / good on live, they'll be most likely in the same / similiar position on 120.

Because the argument "Pre Patch doesn't matter, it's balanced for max level" is a rather common theme in these threads, However in my opinion live does already reflect the state on 120 rather well.

Wrong answer.

We're talking about the HERE AND NOW.

and right NOW

Shammy is on top, brothers join me, sing, we are kings

[Kralljin]

Shammy is on top, brothers join me, sing, we are kings

For some reason i have the image of a kid wearing a paper crown from these fast food restaurants in my head...

[blackblade]

Beta Release
Beta! Beta! Beta! Beta! Beta! Beta!
Not All classes are yet supported.
Some class models still need tweaking.
Some class action lists need tweaking.
Some class BiS gear setups need tweaking.
Some trinkets not yet implemented.
Constructive feedback regarding our output will shorten the Beta phase dramatically.
Beta! Beta! Beta! Beta! Beta! Beta!

I would take SIMC with a grain of salt.

[Puupi]

I would take SIMC with a grain of salt.

I would always take SIMC with a grain of salt, regardless of beta or not.

I trust empirical data, not simulations.

[Volitar]

Well the sims are pretty irrelevant since they always do last min balance the week that Mythic unlocks. I don't put very much stock in these overall ranking sims but if you ever see a Shaman spec going into a balance pass in first place you better brace your asshole for the Blizzard nerfbat to give it a poke.

[pahbi]

My Boy Chase M from Baytown Texas, now living in Houston sent me a text message today. As it turns out, we're golden shammy family.

You see I've always played Shaman, sometimes with my buddy Craig P outta Winnipeg MB, and sometimes without him, but always to the best of the class ability. Unless I was drunk, which I was, for the last 5 years.

I battled addiction like anyone else, and for a time even helped lead a Realm First Guild. Something Sneak I L wasn't there for because he usually quits to early in expansions. He'll quit again this expansion, he's married now, family changes everything, especially with a game like WoW.

Anyways I gave up drinking. And what a perfect time.

Shaman back on top!

https://simulationcraft.org/reports/PR_Raid.html

Remember in early legion when simulation craft said demo warlocks would be the best dps in the game?

The numbers seem encouraging for shamans, but I'll believe it when I see some logs.

- P