Page 3 of 12 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
... LastLast
  1. #41
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ionexe View Post
    No. Just not being a typical front line cannon fodder. Stop with your PC shit in games. Smart and powerful leaders will be in the back doing their higher level work. So what's wrong with that? It would make her into a great and powerful hero and most of all very believable. Don't you get it already? The forced way doesn't work.
    wut? so what varian, genn and saurfang are doing is bullshit as well? fighting in the frontline as 'cannonfodder'. They should all be in the back shouting, right, got it. That actually makes sense, and is what usually happens in war, generals aren't in the trenches. Not sure why having dangly bits between you legs counts as a pass to stand in the frontline though. Typing this from a laptop btw, just so you know.

  2. #42
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardboard Fox View Post
    It's a problem I see in a lot of literature unfortunately; where an author has trouble writing a powerful woman, they either write them like a man or like a petulant child. Thinking back on the three powerful women Christie Golden has had the honor of writing for, they all behave relatively the same and it's all pretty unbecoming. And now that she's working for Blizzard as a writer for the game and not just the novels, a lot of the characters have gone downhill.

    #1: Tyrande Whisperwind
    She was a main character in War Crimes, acting as the Alliance's prosecution against Garrosh Hellscream in his trial. She lost her temper easily, over-reacted to not getting her way, and did not at all come off as a thousands-of-years-old priestess. I'm surprised she didn't stomp her feet and slam doors, to be honest.

    #2: Jaina
    Jaina's had it rough for a long time, but she's always taken her duties with the Kirin Tor and Dalaran very seriously. Up until she didn't get her way in Legion and the other council members out-voted her. So she threw a fit and ran away. Can't get what I want? Then I don't want anything at all!

    #3: Sylvanas
    Arguably one of the most intelligent leaders (devious too!) She's also undead, and the undead have trouble feeling emotions, Sylvanas included if you read her bits in War Crimes. But suddenly she can be angered to the point of burning down her political advantage? It just seems too out-of-character for her.


    Are there any other characters that have been turned into emotion-fueled children that lash out when they don't get their way? Or am I seeing patterns where there aren't any?
    Warcraft lore isn't literature. It's juvenile YA trash. Sorry to break it to you. But, of course, you would think it's literature with your anime avatar.

  3. #43
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by LordSarumantheWise View Post
    Warcraft lore isn't literature. It's juvenile YA trash. Sorry to break it to you. But, of course, you would think it's literature with your anime avatar.
    So because of that we are not allowed to talk about it? Can we not expect any kind of quality simply because it's not literature? But, of course, you would think it's that with your lotr avatar. Widely accepted as the pinnacle of literature (and portrayel of women).

  4. #44
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneOstrich View Post
    So because of that we are not allowed to talk about it? Can we not expect any kind of quality simply because it's not literature? But, of course, you would think it's that with your lotr avatar. Widely accepted as the pinnacle of literature (and portrayel of women).
    I'm well aware of the flaws of Tolkien, even in his more obscure and scholarly works (Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, etc.) but I just find it unbelievably cringe-worthy that you people are making these threads. Christie Golden can't write powerful female characters? She can't write at all. There shouldn't be discussions about WoW writing because it's just too bad. It's a non-issue. Trying to have an earnest conversation about what is essentially stories for 12 year olds is just sad.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodmoth13 View Post
    Give examples of well written female characters then, lets see it. not that it fixes any issues blizz has but you might just be holding blizz up to a standard nobody meets.
    I quite like the female members of the Uncrowned, but those are not leaders. Liadrin is pretty fucking badass, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordSarumantheWise View Post
    Christie Golden can't write powerful female characters? She can't write at all.
    While I completely agree with that, the ad hominem are completely unnecessary.
    Last edited by Jngizu; 2018-08-03 at 10:43 AM.

  6. #46
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by LordSarumantheWise View Post
    I'm well aware of the flaws of Tolkien, even in his more obscure and scholarly works (Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, etc.) but I just find it unbelievably cringe-worthy that you people are making these threads. Christie Golden can't write powerful female characters? She can't write at all. There shouldn't be discussions about WoW writing because it's just too bad. It's a non-issue. Trying to have an earnest conversation about what is essentially stories for 12 year olds is just sad.
    Heaps of people will dabate the intricate lore of my little pony, what else is the internet good for

    We're all here because we have more then healthy obesions over game aged 15+

  7. #47
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Jngizu View Post
    I quite like the female members of the Uncrowned, but those are not leaders. Liadrin is pretty fucking badass, too.



    While I completely agree with that, the ad hominem are completely unnecessary.
    Sorry, but that's not ad hominem. What I said relates directly to her writing ability and the discussion at hand. I didn't make fun of her appearance, for example.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneOstrich View Post
    Heaps of people will dabate the intricate lore of my little pony, what else is the internet good for

    We're all here because we have more then healthy obesions over game aged 15+
    That's not really a defense, you're just stating that people engage in things even worse than what people are engaged in right here. I'm perfectly fine with people discussing the lore, but to say, "Christie Golden can't write powerful female characters" sort of implies she has some authorial faculties and there's a discussion to be had because she has written well in the past or whatever. She hasn't. No WoW writing is good, really. Not in the books anyway.

  8. #48
    blizzard should just close all you guyses accounts. end of story.

  9. #49
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Thieves cant View Post
    blizzard should just close all you guyses accounts. end of story.
    A moving rebuttal.

  10. #50
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by LordSarumantheWise View Post
    Sorry, but that's not ad hominem. What I said relates directly to her writing ability and the discussion at hand. I didn't make fun of her appearance, for example.

    - - - Updated - - -


    That's not really a defense, you're just stating that people engage in things even worse than what people are engaged in right here. I'm perfectly fine with people discussing the lore, but to say, "Christie Golden can't write powerful female characters" sort of implies she has some authorial faculties and there's a discussion to be had because she has written well in the past or whatever. She hasn't. No WoW writing is good, really. Not in the books anyway.
    Again we are in agreement, I just felt you took a rather cheap stab at someone over something (s)he liked. WoW lore is pulp, even plain bad at times, that's why I like it. That's why I like discussions about it, I doubt anyone claims wow lore is very good, but we can still expect certain things. As I mentioned earlier, I don't think it's in the gender, the characters are usually bad anyway, and not just when miss Golden is moving the strings.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardboard Fox View Post
    #1: Tyrande Whisperwind
    She was a main character in War Crimes, acting as the Alliance's prosecution against Garrosh Hellscream in his trial. She lost her temper easily, over-reacted to not getting her way, and did not at all come off as a thousands-of-years-old priestess.
    You can't blame Golden for that, that's how Tyrande has been since she was introduced in Warcraft III.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  12. #52
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneOstrich View Post
    Again we are in agreement, I just felt you took a rather cheap stab at someone over something (s)he liked. WoW lore is pulp, even plain bad at times, that's why I like it. That's why I like discussions about it, I doubt anyone claims wow lore is very good, but we can still expect certain things. As I mentioned earlier, I don't think it's in the gender, the characters are usually bad anyway, and not just when miss Golden is moving the strings.
    Fair enough if you think it's pulpy, that's fine. It's the people who think that these works are on the same level as, I don't know, even Wheel of Time (which I also don't like). Real literature is, of course, way outside of all of this and much, much better. Honestly, I mostly just took issue with the OP's statement, "It's a problem I see in a lot of literature unfortunately." A ridiculous umbrella statement which ties WoW fiction about goblins to the likes of Camus and Dostoevsky in my mind... Yes, the word literature can be used to mean any work of writing, but it's more often used for serious works of intellect.

  13. #53
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    The Lookout
    Posts
    20,979
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodmoth13 View Post
    feels rude to leave the convo hanging but i have no idea who those characters are so i cant critique it at all. so ill just ask what makes them good characters?
    They are powerful sorceress' but they also have Womanly traits and aren't just boring shells.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by LordSarumantheWise View Post
    Sorry, but that's not ad hominem. What I said relates directly to her writing ability and the discussion at hand. I didn't make fun of her appearance, for example.
    I was talking about your comment about this thread's OP. Didn't make it clear, sorry.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by ababmer View Post
    A powerful woman is a mother, a matriarch of a family - not a warrior.

    She can't write powerful women because society has forgotten what they are.
    Say that to all the female surgeons, firefighters, police etc. saving lives. Very sexist comment indeed. Women are heroes and warriors too.
    "There is no end to education. It is not that you read a book, pass an examination, and finish with education. The whole of life, from the moment you are born to the moment you die, is a process of learning." by Jiddu Krishnamurti, Philosopher and Educator

  16. #56
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Jngizu View Post
    I was talking about your comment about this thread's OP. Didn't make it clear, sorry.
    Eh, fair enough.

  17. #57
    I love the recurring comments saying that she writes Tyrande / Jaina / Sylvanas as "men" how do men act, exactly? How are women supposed to act?

    If you have an answer, there's your problem. You can't get mad at a character for not living up to your expectations of how they SHOULD act based upon their gender, which is a ridiculous notion because no two people act the same.

  18. #58
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Elune-life-nature View Post
    Actually they can't write the franchise anymore. The only thing that keeps the lore interesting for some people are the cinematics and artworks which blizz is still good at. Those things are keeping the story alive atm.
    I would agree with that.

  19. #59
    I mean, writing powerful women as boring, OP husks of perfect is far worse. It happens often in Hollywood.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardboard Fox View Post
    snip
    Tyrande - she's always been emotional and irrational. Really this is almost a Night Elf trait. I know Legion portrays them as this ancient fallen race full of nobility and regal from Suramar and Aszuna, but that's a bit of a retcon. Night Elves, especially those from Kalimdor, are only a few steps removed from Trolls. And Trolls aren't particularly known for their emotional stability.

    Jaina - has had it rough... Her reasons for not wanting the horde in Dalaran stem from Garrosh's most recent escapades with giant bombs. It's understandable that she wouldn't want them back in Dalaran, and her leaving makes sense at the time, she was still torn on her loyalties. The whole Jaina wiping out the Horde person we know developed during legion. Before legion, having the Horde in Dalaran might put her in the position to have to kill Horde, pre legion Jaina is torn on this, post legion Jaina would relish the proposition.

    Sylvanas - everything she has done makes perfect sense within her character and the position the information we've gotten. There are more stories that further strengthen this that we've yet to see. Give it time.
    Sylvanas, even in life, was always cold and calculating. She was known for using high elves as "arrows in her quiver".
    Granted these decisions are different from that, but her character change post Lich King have set up her current actions completely.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •