View Poll Results: Should we celebrate genocide?

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  • No

    180 76.92%
  • Yes

    25 10.68%
  • It depends

    29 12.39%
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  1. #1

    Should we celebrate genocide?

    Jean-Jacques Dessalines was appointed the emperor of Haiti after leading their army in a war of independence from France; after which he personally ordered and oversaw the killing of nearly every French man, woman, and child left in Haiti. The city council in Brooklyn have decided to honor Dessalines by naming a street after him. Is it right to celebrate the perpetrators of genocide so long as they killed the *right* people, or people who 'deserved' it? Can a group possess a collective guilt that is so extreme that it warrants their annihilation down to the very last man, woman and child?

    https://www.city-journal.org/html/de...ard-16086.html

    In New York City, street co-namings—in which a thoroughfare takes on an additional, ceremonial name in honor of a distinguished figure—rarely generate much fuss, and their approval is typically pro forma. But yesterday, a city council committee voted to co-name a street in Brooklyn after Jean-Jacques Dessalines, emperor of Haiti after the island won its independence from France in 1804.

    The council’s designation of a two-mile stretch of Rogers Avenue in Brooklyn as Jean-Jacques Dessalines Boulevard sparked some controversy because Dessalines was an enthusiastic advocate of racial murder. Following the defeat of Napoleon’s forces and their retreat from Hispaniola, Dessalines named himself Governor-General-for-Life and decided to wipe the slate clean. Heeding the words of his personal secretary Louis Boisrond-Tonnerre, framer of the Haitian Act of Independence, who declaimed, “we should use the skin of a white man as a parchment, his skull as an inkwell, his blood for ink, and a bayonet for a pen,” Dessalines ordered the murder of virtually every white man, followed soon afterward by all white women and children, in the new nation. Between 3,000 and 5,000 people were butchered in a few months.
    Most people would rather die than think, and most people do. -Bertrand Russell
    Before the camps, I regarded the existence of nationality as something that shouldn’t be noticed - nationality did not really exist, only humanity. But in the camps one learns: if you belong to a successful nation you are protected and you survive. If you are part of universal humanity - too bad for you -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Venant View Post
    Jean-Jacques Dessalines was appointed the emperor of Haiti after leading their army in a war of independence from France; after which he personally ordered and oversaw the killing of nearly every French man, woman, and child left in Haiti. The city council in Brooklyn have decided to honor Dessalines by naming a street after him. Is it right to celebrate the perpetrators of genocide so long as they killed the *right* people, or people who 'deserved' it? Can a group possess a collective guilt that is so extreme that it warrants their annihilation down to the very last man, woman and child?

    https://www.city-journal.org/html/de...ard-16086.html
    Doesn't the US have a bunch of stuff named for men who committed genocide against the American Indians?
    No ideology has been more murderous or detrimental to human dignity than Communism
    Quote Originally Posted by kidkilla View Post
    The Ottomans brought civilization to Greece.
    Oh my...

  3. #3
    No, it's insane.

  4. #4
    Well that's a loaded thread title.

    But, on the other hand, we do still have Columbus Day.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Stelio Kontos View Post
    Doesn't the US have a bunch of stuff named for men who committed genocide against the American Indians?
    Quote Originally Posted by Very Tired View Post
    Well that's a loaded thread title.

    But, on the other hand, we do still have Columbus Day.
    Exactly, which is why I expect many people to select the third option on the poll. I think many people will agree that genocide can be justified.
    Most people would rather die than think, and most people do. -Bertrand Russell
    Before the camps, I regarded the existence of nationality as something that shouldn’t be noticed - nationality did not really exist, only humanity. But in the camps one learns: if you belong to a successful nation you are protected and you survive. If you are part of universal humanity - too bad for you -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  6. #6
    Probably not, but I feel like naming a street after someone is a far cry from celebrating them, was quite a dumb decision though.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Venant View Post
    I think many people will agree that genocide can be justified.
    I can only hope you're wrong because that is a scary thought.
    Expansion leak claiming Legion is the last expansion
    Quote Originally Posted by golds
    NO it will be me laughing at how you doubted this....
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    I was right

  8. #8
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Venant View Post
    Exactly, which is why I expect many people to select the third option on the poll. I think many people will agree that genocide can be justified.
    Why would you even work with the word genocide? That's pure bait, if you want to talk about some historic event please differ.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Very Tired View Post
    Well that's a loaded thread title.

    But, on the other hand, we do still have Columbus Day.
    True enough and no on both counts.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Venant View Post
    I think many people will agree that genocide can be justified.
    Good for them, the rest of us would rather not associated with genocide supporters.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Stelio Kontos View Post
    Doesn't the US have a bunch of stuff named for men who committed genocide against the American Indians?
    Yes, but that is being (slowly) changed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Paetolus View Post
    Probably not, but I feel like naming a street after someone is a far cry from celebrating them, was quite a dumb decision though.
    Pretty directly a way to celebrate someone.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Calfredd View Post
    I can only hope you're wrong because that is a scary thought.
    You should hear Christian apologists/theologians talk about the Canaanites sometime.

  12. #12
    Deleted
    Saint-Domingue by their French masters:

    Have they not hung up men with heads downward, drowned them in sacks, crucified them on planks, buried them alive, crushed them in mortars? Have they not forced them to eat excretement? And, having flayed them with the lash, have they not cast them alive to be devoured by worms, or onto anthills, or lashed them to stakes in the swamp to be devoured by mosquitoes? Have they not thrown them into boiling cauldrons of cane syrup? Have they not put men and women inside barrels studded with spikes and rolled them down mountainsides into the abyss? Have they not consigned these miserable blacks to man-eating dogs until the latter, sated by human flesh, left the mangled victims to be finished off with bayonet and poniard?"

  13. #13
    Here is my opinion.
    You can always move the people you hate and would want to kill elsewhere. I mean if you are willing to just kill them we've already abandoned any sense of due process or human rights so just forcefully move them across your border or back to their countries. Ethnic cleansing is not exactly something to be celebrated but if pragmatically you cannot have stability locally without it, it will always be an option if genocide is on the table and it is VASTLY preferable.
    Hail Lilith and see you in Hell!

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Venant View Post
    Exactly, which is why I expect many people to select the third option on the poll. I think many people will agree that genocide can be justified.
    Yeah no, coming from an ethnicity that was the victim of genocide, I don't believe it's ever justified.
    No ideology has been more murderous or detrimental to human dignity than Communism
    Quote Originally Posted by kidkilla View Post
    The Ottomans brought civilization to Greece.
    Oh my...

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Yes, but that is being (slowly) changed.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Pretty directly a way to celebrate someone.
    Yeah, I just read the whole article, and I didn't realize the system by which they named the streets with, I figured there was a different reason then straight up honoring them.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram View Post
    Why would you even work with the word genocide? That's pure bait, if you want to talk about some historic event please differ.
    So you are saying that killing all of the French people left in Haiti after the revolution wasn't a genocide?
    Most people would rather die than think, and most people do. -Bertrand Russell
    Before the camps, I regarded the existence of nationality as something that shouldn’t be noticed - nationality did not really exist, only humanity. But in the camps one learns: if you belong to a successful nation you are protected and you survive. If you are part of universal humanity - too bad for you -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Venant View Post
    So you are saying that killing all of the French people left in Haiti after the revolution wasn't a genocide?
    Genocide would be attempting to kill all French people period.

    What you're describing is ethnic cleansing.
    No ideology has been more murderous or detrimental to human dignity than Communism
    Quote Originally Posted by kidkilla View Post
    The Ottomans brought civilization to Greece.
    Oh my...

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Stelio Kontos View Post
    Yeah no, coming from an ethnicity that was the victim of genocide, I don't believe it's ever justified.
    I get it. You guys were completely wiped the fuck out, but that was the time back then. Genocide then is different then genocide now. For the U.S, it was the subjugation of the natives, the land, and the safe passages of their citizens to the west. Now, it's killing for the sake of killing/exterminating the race/heritage. Pretty much everyone's line has been a victim of genocide in the past. The natives, whites, muslims, christians, jews...everyone (except the reptillians )
    -You are now aware of your tongue-

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Paetolus View Post
    Yeah, I just read the whole article, and I didn't realize the system by which they named the streets with, I figured there was a different reason then straight up honoring them.
    Actually, most of the streets are named after local people who somehow contributed to the community. Another interesting quote from the article:
    Rodneyse Bichotte, a Brooklyn member of the state assembly who claims direct descent from Dessalines, defended the excesses of the Haitian revolutionaries as a legitimate response to oppression, and said that Dessalines “sought to stop those who were evil.”
    So a member on the council publicly supports what Dessalines did as 'stopping those who were evil'
    Most people would rather die than think, and most people do. -Bertrand Russell
    Before the camps, I regarded the existence of nationality as something that shouldn’t be noticed - nationality did not really exist, only humanity. But in the camps one learns: if you belong to a successful nation you are protected and you survive. If you are part of universal humanity - too bad for you -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Foosha View Post
    I get it. You guys were completely wiped the fuck out, but that was the time back then. Genocide then is different then genocide now. For the U.S, it was the subjugation of the natives, the land, and the safe passages of their citizens to the west. Now, it's killing for the sake of killing/exterminating the race/heritage. Pretty much everyone's line has been a victim of genocide in the past. The natives, whites, muslims, christians, jews...everyone (except the reptillians )
    Not completely, since we're still here after all. And it oscillated between genocide and ethnic cleansing as time went on. But I don't think genocide is ever justified.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Venant View Post
    Actually, most of the streets are named after local people who somehow contributed to the community. Another interesting quote from the article:


    So a member on the council publicly supports what Dessalines did as 'stopping those who were evil'
    A lot of countries clean house when they overthrow occupiers/conquerors, mine did the same when they overthrew their conquerors. That's not genocide per se. They ethnically cleansed the French off the island, they didn't then try to wipe the French out in France and their other holdings.
    No ideology has been more murderous or detrimental to human dignity than Communism
    Quote Originally Posted by kidkilla View Post
    The Ottomans brought civilization to Greece.
    Oh my...

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