Burning crusade was bad

[xcitng]

BC was brilliant

because I said

[Lightwork]

Back to reality: actually, it was the best expansion this game has ever seen.

Just dropping in to give this a BUMP.

[tikcol]

What's the point of calling a 10 year old expansion bad?

The reason is obvious..

[Sturmbringe]

Back to reality: actually, it was the best expansion this game has ever seen.

I agree, TBC was the best expansion Blizzard ever did to WoW.

It is only reasonable to expect that Blizzard will give us TBC sometime after the release of Classic.

It is reasonable that Blizzdrones/retailers (see the retailer hate in this thread) absolutely hate TBC as the game was so much better back then and in so many years after 2008-2009, Blizzard did not manage to surpass it.

[hulkgor]

snip

Sure buddy, whatever you say.

[quite an expert in wow]

it's obvious OP never played on retail and thus did not experience how enjoyable TBC was

instead of flaming him for it, let's take a minute and feel sorry for him - i literally can't even describe how shit it must feel - soon he's going to post he started playing in wotlk (the horror)

[Lightwork]

it's obvious OP never played on retail and thus did not experience how enjoyable TBC was

instead of flaming him for it, let's take a minute and feel sorry for him - i literally can't even describe how shit it must feel - soon he's going to post he started playing in wotlk (the horror)

It's like the WoW General forums on the official site. Not one person in those threads has played prior to Cata.

[Equoowe]

I have to agree. A lot of BC players will point at Cherez as a S3 Rank 1 Hunter and he was at that time one of the best Hunter players out there, but when you analyze the Videos of him and his Druid Healer Basteh you can see that this outstanding player gets carried by the druid.

You mean just like warrior and druid? If a hunter can get rank one then I think it's fair to say it was viable.

[anon5123]

Wait a minute. People actually think that removing attacking others/the fear of being attacked on roads or when fighting mobs was a good idea ?
I feel like it should be a major part of any MMORPG. Of course the first instinct is to think it would be better to be safe but it really makes the world more unpredictable and dangerous. I cannot count the number of friends I made that were in the context of world PvP (and I do mean the small world PvP, not the events that died with BGs).

I don't enjoy being stressed and on-edge at all times due to the looming threat of a random, unpredictable enemy attack. If I wanted to PvP I'd go join a battleground/arena.

That and, 99% of "world pvp" is unfair ganking with one player taking advantage of another, whether through being attacked while you're fighting a mob, or low on health/mana, or by someone way higher level than you. Fair fights in world pvp are almost nonexistent. The only people who enjoy "world pvp" are people looking for an unfair fight because they're too terrible at the game to win a fair fight.

[Deficineiron]

Little conspiracy theory here, but I have always felt like something went wrong with WoD, that they will never discuss. The amount of things that got cut, the implementation of garrisons, which I believe were supposed to allowed in any zone, the complete lack of other content, it was a massive step back.

stating the obvious is actually not a conspiracy theory. they clearly cut content they had certainly planned on (netherstorm an obvious one).

Given the corporate nature of the entity, the most likely explanation is internal shake-up. if I have to speculate based on the woefully small public data -

wod late 2014 release. sub nosedive after post-release spike. in the real world, a company pays a LOT of attention to this. money is important!!
within a year, they had gone black on sub and detailed wow financial data, cut some unknown amount of content. it seems obvious (to me) there was a shake-up inside, and if someone stayed in charge, they were read the riot act as part of staying in charge.

ghostcrawler had left a bit before wod release and rumor was he had taken some people with him. I am not sure if this was ever verified.? if so it could have thrown off all kinds of stuff internally on the follow-up wod content deployment?

now if we go with mmo-c forum logic -

1) cut content - they never promised another raid tier and they never explicitly double-blue promised netherstorm
2) cutting the disclosure of sub and financial data is just a normal measure for a large company.
3) everything saying a company acts like a company is just a conspiracy theory.
4) did you know they have the largest team ever on wow now!??

[quite an expert in wow]

Best expansion would have been WOTLK without the introduction of "let's AoE everything down". What I mean is: WOTLK with BC rules. That would have been awesome! I'm a CC fan. I like dungeon crawling. But then again, with all its ups and downs, the game was "good enough" to keep me hooked all the time.

- - - Updated - - -




Your post is somewhat ridiculous and posting it in 3inch letters won't inject any more validity into it.

since you didn't put much effort into explaining why, i'm just going to say: you too

[Deficineiron]

Best expansion would have been WOTLK without the introduction of "let's AoE everything down". What I mean is: WOTLK with BC rules. That would have been awesome! I'm a CC fan. I like dungeon crawling. But then again, with all its ups and downs, the game was "good enough" to keep me hooked all the time.

neutering threat as a mechanic was a pretty big deal. also, I strongly suspect wotlk was intended to be tuned globally harder and mob damage was simply across-the-board nerfed prior to release. I have some basis for this claim - blue explicitly stated that naxx was not tuned as hard as 'WE' would have liked (blue we) in a later interview. if blue didn't want it tuned that way, why was it done so? My guess is blue had been introduced to participation/completion metrics as a hard measurement on THEIR performance, internally by the new overlords, and mass nerf was the only viable way at such late notice they had to implement. Maybe the threat neutering was part of this too?

if you look at how all bc content was tuned even in 2.4.3, it seems more likely blizzard intended for 3.0.2 content, esp. max level/heroics to be tuned similarly.

I know this is a wow forum and most posters vehemently oppose the idea that the new owners and management would impose their well-known metrics and philosophy on their new division which represented almost half their revenue.

[FuxieDK]

Which was odd since vanilla had two 20 man raids (ZG and AQ:20)


Vanilla even had a "10 man" raid in the form of UBRS.

At launch of Vanilla, UBRS had no cap (i.e. effectively 40man)..
UBRS was capped at 15 in v1.3.0... and again at 10 in v1.10.0...

[Deleted]

I liked vanilla more but TBC was definitely not bad. I doubt OP has ever played it.

[Rehija]

You mean just like warrior and druid?

Actually Cherez and Basteh had to queue almost double the games Warrior/Drood comps did on other pools. As far as i can remember they were the only Hunter team in all of the US pools who reached Glad ranking that season and that says a lot.

In comparison, a friend of mine who reached S4 Rank1 on the Bloodthurst-EU pool with Warrior/Drood said his job was to sit 80% of the time in some sort of cc and the rest was cooldown popping while hoping for simultanous Mace proccs. That and a lot of pacience.

[anon5123]

Sorry, but MoP was the pinnacle of WoW.

Great content, great class design, fantastic storylines....

When MoP was out, I heard nothing but complaints about "shitloads of dailies" and people crying about the daily/rep grinds and rep gating on everything.

But I really only played the tail end of it so I don't really have much perspective of my own.

Little conspiracy theory here, but I have always felt like something went wrong with WoD, that they will never discuss. The amount of things that got cut, the implementation of garrisons, which I believe were supposed to allowed in any zone, the complete lack of other content, it was a massive step back.

The major problems with WoD were:

-Tons of cut content
-Delayed raids
-Only two real raid tiers
-Almost nothing interesting to do out in the world
-Instanced garrisons
-PvP was unbalanced and crap, from what I heard
-Stuck with a 7-boss raid for like 4 months

Really it was just the fact that there was almost nothing to do except dungeons and raids and instanced PvP. There was nothing worthwhile to do outside of those.

[xmancho1]

There will be even more people on official server, because there are people like me, who do not want to play on private but will play on official one.

And then there are people like me that will not play Classic, and we are many. Your point exactly? We do not know how many people are going to play classic , from all of the people i've talked to only 1 guy said he is.

[Tommi]

When MoP was out, I heard nothing but complaints about "shitloads of dailies" and people crying about the daily/rep grinds and rep gating on everything.

But I really only played the tail end of it so I don't really have much perspective of my own.

Rep gating wasn't too bad, it was mostly patterns and starter gear. The rep wasn't hard to grind either. You got lots of rep per daily.
The raids were awesome.
The lore was amazing.
Class balance was decent, but blizzards way of nerfing classes were retarded. The -10% damage aura on Brewmasters meant ANYTHING damage wise was nerfed, including extra action abilities. Then they came out saying they couldn't nerf warlocks due to too many guilds relying on them? What about guilds relying on Brewmasters?

The major problems with WoD were:

-Tons of cut content
-Delayed raids
-Only two real raid tiers
-Almost nothing interesting to do out in the world
-Instanced garrisons
-PvP was unbalanced and crap, from what I heard
-Stuck with a 7-boss raid for like 4 months

Really it was just the fact that there was almost nothing to do except dungeons and raids and instanced PvP. There was nothing worthwhile to do outside of those.

Exactly WoDs problems. Nothing to do outside raid killed game for me. First time I'd actually quit WoW since TBC. Proof that the "raid or die" mentality would kill an MMO, and why they shouldn't listen to mythic raiders. Sorry mythic raiders, you're the SMALLEST minority, that's coming from an ex-mythic raider. If blizzard was to stop mythic raids, the people who quit would be nothing compared to WoDs loss. And yet mythic raiders are the biggest bunch of complainers in WoW, as if everything the game is revolves around them. Especially the LFR complaints, those make me giggle. Without LFR, there would be no amazing raids. Raids take a lot of time and budget, LFR saved raiding, even blizzard have said this. LFR allowed them to justify spending the resources on raids.

[lardaoc]

Deep thunder and Stormherald, Void Star Talisman for warlock, spirit staff's (for druid innervate mostly), probably a bunch of other trinkets and items I can't remember.

Which were all choices, but not best in slot, especially the non-weapon examples you mentioned. As for the weapons, those weren't good because they were from pve rather than pvp, they were good cause the rng procs could completely lock down an opponent, they were actually lower dps than their pvp counterparts...
The other thing you didn't mention is how putting more than 1 of these examples on put your resilience down to levels most of classes became too squishy unless they were sl/sl locks. So if an item is best in slot but you can't use it because your resilience level drops too low to use it, how is it best in slot sitting in your inventory/bank unused again? yeah exactly...
The point were balance was broken and shifted towards use of multiple pve items over pvp counterparts was s3 when they introduced armor penetration and you could stack it with pve gear but couldn't get nearly as high with pvp. Now again that wasn't all classes but those who had good defensive cd's. That's exactly what made 150 res prot warriors viable in s4, the cd's and spec was good enough to mitigate damage to get away with such low levels of resilience.

[Delana]

Perhaps you could indeed use the extra dimension to bring new gameplay but that is usually not the case in World of Warcraft where the world is primarly designed with a ground perspective in mind. They tried to design in 3D a bit with Skettis then later with Vash'jir but it was not very effective IMO.

The reason why is straight-forward. Humans aren't really a 3 dimensional species. We spend the vast majority of our time confined to a 2-D surface (the earth). Of course we understand 3 dimensions, but whenever possible we like to project back down to 2. Look at any 3D CAD software. Most of the real design work happens in a simplified 2-dimensional setting.