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  1. #61
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by SHUMEGGAH View Post
    This part most certainly must mean a new class. "Later this year" definitely means BlizzCon and much like how "Rise of the Necromancer" was announced at BlizzCon in 2016 I have a feeling a new class is being announced at this year's BlizzCon.

    We already know about this "Book of Adria" as well as the Diablo comic series that Blizzard is doing.

    And those were already announced.

    Here it comes boyos: incoming Druid class.
    Diablo 3 has been scaled down to a skeleton crew working on themed seasons, and themed seasons seem to just re-use old assets.

    Diablo 3 is in maintenance mode, there is no money to be made from it. Hade Necro sold well then sure, but it most likely didnt sell well enough. As soon after Diablo 3 went into maintenance mode with most of the talent being shifted to other projects.

    Stop expecting things for Diablo 3.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    How are you defining success?

    I define success as you take a selection of ARPGs. Diablo used to tower over all other ARPGs because Blizzard had a competitive advantage. That competitive advantage was that Blizzard offered a social community in battle.net 1.0 that added tremendous value to the company and acted as a reliable pipeline feeding customers to its games. That pipeline secured its future and branded the company as a success.

    If you want to talk about Overwatch, its among other games in its genre but it doesn't tower over them like past Blizzard games. There is no competitive advantage for Overwatch. Overwatch brands Blizzard as "just another gaming company" unable to dominate its market. There is no value add to the company to put it over the top like it used to have when it offered a strong social community. Blizz tore down its social community. Without that competitive advantage, if they make a couple of big mistakes with Overwatch game design, their playerbase can drop way off. When Blizzard specialized in providing a social gaming community, it always had that as a fallback to prevent people from leaving for other games if they screwed up game design.

    Hearthstone is a different conversation as it created its own market. It was the only online trading card game available on PC and phones globally until Shadowverse. No company is going to rely on inventing brand new markets all the time.

    I see people all the time assert that "RTS can't succeed" or "ARPGs can't succeed to today's market" and that's just an empty statement with nothing to back it up. I'm telling you they can, just provide the correct social framework.
    Success is simply from financial standpoint in my book. If a game does well initially and continue to be among the top of the gaming trend for a considerable period of time then it's obviously a success. Just because a game does not utterly dominate the market does not really mean it's not successful. Dota 2 is not successful because it is behind LoL?

    Just saying Hearthstone is different is just bypassing the argument. The type of game Hearthstone is and the time it has arrived at in the market made it a huge success. Very much less so to do with social aspect of the game. That's the point. It popularized the genre. ARPG and RTS are "popular" genre without popular games because all that is left is legacy.

    RTS and ARPG are the genre that I am skeptical about because of numberous attempts that has been tried. You can say anything can succeed but that's equally empty statement until it does. My claim actually has the back up from the recent trend. The landscape of gaming has huge impact on what kind of games will succeed. The argument that B.net, a single, greatest feature, made Blizzard dominate in the past is unconvincing.
    Last edited by Wildmoon; 2018-08-13 at 03:28 AM.

  3. #63
    Using this thread since it is the most "generic" one.

    With the Torchlight Frontiers announcement, i really hope the Diablo team is aware that the APRG general direction is rapidly shifting. Persistent world with procedurally generated dungeons, something i personally cried for from a long time ago - the kind of structure that aims for long-term support in a mmo-ish style.

    I'm not questioning either of the two teams, nor saying "game1 is better than game2". But the step ahead is definitely there and someone announced it before Blizzard - i kinda expect the new Diablo game to be something similar to this, but i can be totally wrong.

    Hopefully we will hear something more in the near future.
    Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.

  4. #64
    There's a design culture they need to address for their games - rewarding Speedruns. Too often, their end-game focuses too much on time efficiency as a metric of challenge rather than the challenge itself. Diablo was historically designed where you can die a million deaths fighting a boss, but you'll eventually down them through attrition. Or like Uber fights in D2, bosses take forever to kill and in the meantime you have to try and survive/outlast their damage output. Now, the focus is on trying to complete bounties in the shortest amount of time, or defeating a greater rift within the allotted time. While it's a great metric for some aspects of gameplay, it really doesn't play well with randomly generated content or higher forms of challenge.

    I hope the design focus changes. Time shouldn't be the metric for more rewards. Rewards should be granted for accomplishing the challenges themselves. When time becomes a factor, then people are generally going to revert to the tired tricks of grinding keys/mats and re-rolling maps/items until they get what they want.
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2018-08-24 at 11:59 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    "Real" Demon Hunters don't work as a class in modern WoW
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Please point out to me the player Demon Hunter who has Meta.

  5. #65
    Whatever game they work on next they need a clear design goal and ethos.

    Diablo 3 was all over the place. The game is completely different from when it first launched.

    Too many times they let one creative lead run wild with their ideas and when they dont work out it leaves everything in the shitter like Jay Wilson who started this whole D3 mess

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by BillyWayneRuddick View Post
    Whatever game they work on next they need a clear design goal and ethos.

    Diablo 3 was all over the place. The game is completely different from when it first launched.

    Too many times they let one creative lead run wild with their ideas and when they dont work out it leaves everything in the shitter like Jay Wilson who started this whole D3 mess
    Its across the board with all Blizzard titles. Starcraft 2 was not as popular. Diablo 3 was non as popular. WoW has lost popularity. Theme recurrent theme among all these franchises is they abandoned social play and are still really struggling to catch up, if at all. The FIRST fix, as of today, is to fire leadership and specifically get people in charge that are extroverted people, who understand the need for social interaction.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Its across the board with all Blizzard titles. Starcraft 2 was not as popular. Diablo 3 was non as popular. WoW has lost popularity. Theme recurrent theme among all these franchises is they abandoned social play and are still really struggling to catch up, if at all. The FIRST fix, as of today, is to fire leadership and specifically get people in charge that are extroverted people, who understand the need for social interaction.
    I don't agree - or better, i agree only on some aspects. WoW is popular again after Legion and honestly even if subs fluctuate it will always be relevant until Blizz pulls the plug on it. On the other side, SC2 and D3 were both letdowns that don't represent the actual proficiency of the team; i suppose that Blizzard simply took out support and development after seeing that the product was underpar and wasn't worth invensting on it anymore.

    As for players being social/unsocial, well, you cannot do anything about it and it's not Blizzard's fault for sure. They put multiple ways in WoW to combat antisocial behaviour and usually it's the worst way to experience the game. What makes me think is why someone who's antisocial wants to play a game that's for most based on social interactions - to me it's more a "i want it all and i want it now" kind of situation.

    Interestingly enough, the developers of the most popular lootfilter for PoE did some polls asking the players what direction they should take on their work, and guess what? More than the 80% of players play mostly solo, in a game that's balanced on trading and possibly partying if you want to be as efficient as possible.

    Modern playerbase couldn't care less about other players as long as they have fun. It's no more the time of "getting together to beat that hard encounter", every other player online is just seen as a hindrance or a tool needed to reach a goal. That's something devs cannot do much about or players won't buy their games.
    It sucks.
    Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    The thing about that is the fact that sooner or later everyone completes the "challenge". Especially in a vertical scaling system. There's never going to be a Diablo boss that almost no one beats or something.

    So sooner or later the question isn't, "Can you beat the boss?" but "How quickly/efficiently can you do it?" which really isn't out of place with how things work in other games or competitive arenas. It's perfectly expected, really.
    I agree with what you've said here. After all's said and done, when a challenge is beaten and we're replaying the same content, it all comes down to efficient speed running and optimizing builds to beat the bosses. What I'm specifically criticizing is content that is using time as a limit rather than allowing the individual to dictate the speed and efficiency of their runs. Instead of just having a progressively harder and harder dungeon that simply caps itself by simply being unbeatable-for-your-level, greater rifts are built around beating the content within X minutes and having your time punished upon death. While it's an effective system for what it is, I don't think it's a good system for the Diablo series as a whole. Even if D2 is built upon the speed running and over-powered builds that can blast through bosses and levels, the game itself doesn't gauge your progress with time limits.

    Super Mario Bros, as a loose example, is a relatively simple platformer. Once you've beaten the game a few times, the challenge switches to speed running and challenging yourself to beat the levels quickly. That kind of challenge is user-defined, and it's up to the player to choose to master that on their own. In the sequels, challenge was increased by finding stars or exploring alternative routes. While some challenges may hinge on time, like hitting a P block or collecting red coins within a time limit to obtain a Star; but D3's GR challenge is akin to a count-down timer that subtracts seconds every time you mess up.

    When I bring this back to Diablo as a series, something like the Ubers and D3's Hellfire Amulet bosses are the level of challenge that I'm talking about. The problem is that the Torment levels get capped pretty easily, and the Ubers don't really offer anything other than more mats for an amulet you only really need to make a few times. Those uber bosses were great end-game content before the inclusion of Paragon and GR pushing. I remember having to spend practically half an hour trying to down the Siege beast using attrition tactics and whittling it down, and it felt rewarding once I got it down. Now, it's a matter of grinding paragon high enough to make the challenge irrelevant. D2 Ubers work because there's no way you can scale yourself high enough to make a joke out of those bosses; even with a proven strategy the challenge of fighting and surviving the boss encounter will be difficult. It didn't need higher Torment levels to keep them relevant.

    I don't particularly mind the stat increases from Paragon or the increased difficulty of GRs, but I do have a beef with having time be the absolute definitive for success in a GR, or any end-game progress for that matter. Speed running should be something that we define, not the game.
    Last edited by Thimagryn; 2018-08-28 at 12:58 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    "Real" Demon Hunters don't work as a class in modern WoW
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Please point out to me the player Demon Hunter who has Meta.

  9. #69
    Diablo 2 wasnt just popular because of the battlenet. Many countries didnt have the advantages of battlenet but they played a lot of diablo 2 in Lan, cafe-internets. Many "diablo clones" appeared with skills trees, classes, acts, etc.

    In the interlude, some games keep betting on ARPG like PoE and torchlight.

    But Diablo 3 inspired again new titles and improvements. Soon new ARPG appeared Grimdawn, Van Hellsing, Marvel Heroes, and others.

    About the topic, on the switch you can see the play the original diablo (The First) at 5:31m, however it can mean nothing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT98r5Jxl6o

    On the other hand, there rumours that say the new diablo game will be more like the witcher iii

  10. #70
    Bloodsail Admiral Konteil's Avatar
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    i come back every season and pay thru. i get my acts done and get on board and then i stop playing. i really want a new diablo game. i would love a console diablo mmo that plays like 3. that would be fracking amazing. there arent any good immersive console momo. final fantasy just isnt in it. too slow.
    “Listen, three eyes,” he said, “don’t you try to outweird me, I get stranger things than you free with my breakfast cereal.”

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Its across the board with all Blizzard titles. Starcraft 2 was not as popular. Diablo 3 was non as popular. WoW has lost popularity. Theme recurrent theme among all these franchises is they abandoned social play and are still really struggling to catch up, if at all. The FIRST fix, as of today, is to fire leadership and specifically get people in charge that are extroverted people, who understand the need for social interaction.
    The market for games is much larger now than it was then with many more products dividing the attention of players. Back then Diablo 2 was pretty much the only game in town. While WC/SC had some competition, they were much more accessible games than C&C and others. Today RTS and ARPGs are smaller niches than they were back then.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by KainneAbsolute View Post
    Diablo 2 wasnt just popular because of the battlenet. Many countries didnt have the advantages of battlenet but they played a lot of diablo 2 in Lan, cafe-internets. Many "diablo clones" appeared with skills trees, classes, acts, etc.

    In the interlude, some games keep betting on ARPG like PoE and torchlight.

    But Diablo 3 inspired again new titles and improvements. Soon new ARPG appeared Grimdawn, Van Hellsing, Marvel Heroes, and others.

    About the topic, on the switch you can see the play the original diablo (The First) at 5:31m, however it can mean nothing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT98r5Jxl6o

    On the other hand, there rumours that say the new diablo game will be more like the witcher iii
    that is not the original Diablo dude, that was the new cathedral area that D3 got with the Rise of the Necromancer DLC.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by SirBeef View Post



    that is not the original Diablo dude, that was the new cathedral area that D3 got with the Rise of the Necromancer DLC.
    AHHHH, you are right

  13. #73
    I was really hyped. But the d3 switch release basically tells us its not gonna be anything other than some small crap for d3

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by KainneAbsolute View Post
    AHHHH, you are right
    I would love a D1 remake with the modern engine though.

  15. #75
    On top of remakes, I kinda wish their Classic Games division were able to make new expansions for older content. Some of these games could really shine with just a little bit of extra content.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    "Real" Demon Hunters don't work as a class in modern WoW
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Please point out to me the player Demon Hunter who has Meta.

  16. #76
    Warchief skannerz22's Avatar
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    they need to make a diablo mmorpg
    -Proffesional Necromancer-

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khain View Post
    Today the CM Nevalistis released a small update about the future of Diablo at Blizzard.

    https://twitter.com/Diablo/status/1027193169094430720

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwVaqS_bd-8


    Can we at least be hyped for Blizzcon now?
    Um... It's good to hear that they haven't forgotten about Diablo. But there is little more than that

    Now, I saw that Blizz was hiring people for something Diablo-related. But it could be anything from a brand new D4 (yay) to another DLC ala RotN (meh).
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  18. #78
    do you all think that the Diablo franchise will continue on with consoles?

    I just bought the PC version after having played so much on the console version and I have to be honest--I find the PC version to not be as good for me.

  19. #79
    Probably their plans for the next season. "You will now receive double gold from vendoring common, magic and rare items"
    People don't forgive, they forget. - Rust Cohle

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Faesroll View Post
    Probably their plans for the next season. "You will now receive double gold from vendoring common, magic and rare items"
    HA. Yeah, i'm pretty much completely disappinted about "themed" seasons. The game stopped improving after a while, and themes are basically double useless stuff as for today. I'm sure they can/will come out with better stuff, but let's admit it, the hype is now for the new Diablo projects and D3 is commonly labeled as a mediocre game overall.

    I mean, it's not unfun and i played a lot of hours, still it simply doesn't live up to the Diablo legacy.
    Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.

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