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  1. #1

    Mage or Lock for BFA?

    Hi people, long time wow player on and off since release and really looking forward to BFA but have spent the last 2 weeks banging my head against a wall trying to decide what class to main.

    Ive narrowed down to lock and mage having played both just to lvl 113 in the beta as i didnt want to ruin the launch experience so i just messed about with builds and specs for all classes.

    Ive never mained lock before but demonology really got me interested in my time with the beta as i found it to be very enjoyable.
    Ive little to no interest in the dotting gameplay of affliction.
    While i find destruction okay a couple of mechanics really turn me off the spec especially when i compare it to the fire mage.
    Firstly applying havoc and target swapping for the big chaos bolts being one, yeah im lazy :P i would also mention immulate here too, compared to fire mage where its cleave doesnt require target switching and its dot is automatically applied.
    Other that that destro is pretty nice and as a bonus its gfx effects are the best in the game imho.
    Overall and more than anything i find the lack of mobility with the lock to be a real chore, ofcourse it may not be terribly important for me specifically as i wont be a hardcore raider or anything remotely near that so id be hoping it wont be a huge issue.

    Mage i enjoy both fire and frost,their mobility is so much better plus they have the terribly handy portals.

    Both have pros and cons but for me personally here are the ones at the forefront for me personally

    MAGE PROS:
    I really enjoy 2 specs fire and frost [probably my 2nd and 3rd favourite specs in the game]
    Mobility
    Portals and Food

    MAGE CONS:
    Im struggling to find any to be fair apart from i find their xmogs never look as good as warlocks :P

    LOCK PROS:
    Demonology is a spec i find incredibly entertaining,its been years since i enjoyed a spec so much.
    I really like the class fantasy especially demo.

    LOCK CONS:
    Mobility more than anything else.
    Destruction and afflic require quite a bit of target swapping to play optimally [for a lazy old git like me this just gets tedious after a while]


    Anyone else find themselves in a similar scenario and made a choice yet?

  2. #2
    What does your guild "need"? Assuming you will be rolling with one.

  3. #3
    The answer looks pretty simple to me... You like mage/warlock for different reasons, so play both.

    Games are supposed to be fun. Do what makes you happy

    You have the next two years to enjoy yourself.
    <Multipass>

  4. #4
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Efioanaes View Post
    Anyone else find themselves in a similar scenario and made a choice yet?
    A lot of people have, so many that MMO-C made a rule about threads like this. They're no longer allowed because we literally cannot make any decision for you. Only you can chose for you.

  5. #5
    Your answer is simple:
    Mage main
    Warlock Demo alt for pure, stress-free fun.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Efioanaes View Post
    Firstly applying havoc and target swapping for the big chaos bolts being one, yeah im lazy :P i would also mention immulate here too, compared to fire mage where its cleave doesnt require target switching and its dot is automatically applied.
    Warlocks tend to take a bit of effort to get the most out of them outside of more recent meme-er times.

    If that sounds like a lot of work to you, and you're only interested in 1 of the 3 specs, I would not recommend playing lock.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  7. #7
    Thanks guys some very valid suggestions.

  8. #8
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Orwell7 View Post
    Your answer is simple:
    Mage main
    Warlock Demo alt for pure, stress-free fun.
    This is what I'd suggest.

    If you like two mage specs and just find one warlock spec fun and the other two more work than you want to get functioning, play mage and have a warlock alt for fooling around on.

  9. #9
    Deleted
    I have pretty much played destro with a touch of affy here and there. I've never had an alt to speak of. I've never enjoyed demo in any of its forms so far, but I haven't tried the new version as of yet. I'm not a fan of multi dotting either I prefer burst and direct damage.

    Towards the end of legion is the 1st time I've really bothered with an alt whuch is a mage as I only enjoy playing ranged. I have to say I love the way fire plays and feels, you have mobility, procs, you can force procs, it has good cleave. The rotation just feels smooth and engaging and doesn't feel like it has any glaring problems unlike the warlock specs. I mean I enjoy the new destro but aoe seems a bit shitty to do, and I feel completely hamstrung when I have to move. It's the 1st time I've felt torn over having a different main. I'm not a massive fan of frost with the rng as you can literally just seemingly cast frost bolts forever. I've not tried arcane in a good while

    I also enjoyed mm hunter with lone wolf that feels similar to destro

    Destro just feels like it's lost too much for me, we can't move a great deal, and I don't feel I can take the damage I could, and the aoe is lacking something with RoF feels wrong.

    I don't know when you are playing a mage they just don't feel like they lack anything playstlye wise and feel complete

  10. #10
    For the content you do, how much does it matter if your spec is good?
    If it doesn't matter, play Demo, you can play it whatever the tuning is like.
    If your guild needs you to perform reasonably well, play Mage. You're more likely to have a spec you like performing at the level you need if you like 2 mage specs, and you can always do some demo on an alt.

  11. #11
    Mage gets:

    10% int buff
    Heroism
    Immunities (two of them as frost with cold snap)
    65%+ snare on targets as frost (immensely useful for M+)
    Baseline interrupt
    Mobility

    If you play warlock, it's either because you enjoy the gameplay a lot or one of the specs is significantly overtuned like affliction, because in terms of utility the warlock doesn't come even close thanks to the ridiculous raid buffs coming back only for a select few classes (they ran out of time and ideas for the rest).

  12. #12
    Deleted
    Lock, easily.

    Outside of cheesing shit with immunities (and let's face it, this is not intended by Blizzard), warlocks do everything better than mages and bring much more utility.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cantbunnythis View Post
    Lock, easily.

    Outside of cheesing shit with immunities (and let's face it, this is not intended by Blizzard), warlocks do everything better than mages and bring much more utility.
    aha not really lol

  14. #14
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Icoblablubb View Post
    aha not really lol
    what do mages bring outside of abusing immunities (which other classes can do and better (rogues) ? Bloodlust can be brought by shamans and hunters too. And their int buff can be brought by a scroll, alhough the mage buff is a little better. Meanwhile Warlocks: Summoning Portal (unique), Healthstones (unique, can in bfa be used on top of pots), Demonic Gateway (unique). And they have an aoe stun on all 3 specs. While they don't have a baseline interrupt they can just use the felhunter and lose zero dps.

  15. #15
    Deleted
    I was wondering the same lately (mage or lock main for BFA) and this is what I came up with*:


    https://imgur.com/a/6YWM7ea

    Code:
    			mage	vs.	warlock
    
    	### 'comparable' spells category: ###
    
    blink (15/20s)			>>>		demonic gateway (90s)
    		
    polymorph (no CD)		>>		succubus: seduction 30s
    counterspell (24s)		>		felhunter: spell lock 24s
    spellsteal (no CD)		>>		felhunter: devour magic 15s
    remove curse (8s)		>>		imp: singe magic 15s
    			
    ice block (4min)		>		unending resolve (3min)
    			
    frost nova (30s)		<		shadowfury (1min)
    invisibility (5min)		>		fear (no CD)
    prismatic/blazing/ice barrier	?		soul leech
    
    	### 	"no equivalent" category: ###
    	
    time warp		
    arcane intellect		
    						battle rez (soulstone)
    						banish
    
    	### 	"don't care" category: ###
    
    teleport					summoning
    conjure refreshments				healthstone
    slow fall					unending breath (lol)
    I consider all polymorph, counterspell, spellsteal and remove curse as superior as they don't require you to take suboptimal pet (unless they all do the same DPS now?) and are all available at the same time with shorter cooldowns.

    The "don't care category" are things that wouldn't sway me one way or the other.

    Not included in this table are:
    - class fantasy (I like both)
    - fire + frost + arcane vs. destruction + demonology + affliction (fun & ease of use)**
    - frost utility in M+ in slowing/kiting
    - pet vs no-pet class (ease of use in 'world content' vs. problems with pet AI? - is this still a thing?)

    I didn't play mage or lock in Legion other than invasion-levelling, so all their specs are fresh/new to me.



    * - all of this is subjective and potentially uninformed as I haven't played in some time, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong; also note that this is PVE perspective as that is what I intend to play mostly
    ** - fun is subjective of course; 'ease of use' - after maining shadow priest for a few years I refuse to play a specc that requires me to put in way more effort than other classes just to get their results (DPS)
    Last edited by mmoc07b65bcab9; 2018-08-12 at 05:33 PM. Reason: sorry, can't insert direct images

  16. #16
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludwik View Post
    I was wondering the same lately (mage or lock main for BFA) and this is what I came up with*:


    https://imgur.com/a/6YWM7ea

    Code:
    			mage	vs.	warlock
    
    	### 'comparable' spells category: ###
    
    blink (15/20s)			>>>		demonic gateway (90s)
    		
    polymorph (no CD)		>>		succubus: seduction 30s
    counterspell (24s)		>		felhunter: spell lock 24s
    spellsteal (no CD)		>>		felhunter: devour magic 15s
    remove curse (8s)		>>		imp: singe magic 15s
    			
    ice block (4min)		>		unending resolve (3min)
    			
    frost nova (30s)		<		shadowfury (1min)
    invisibility (5min)		>		fear (no CD)
    prismatic/blazing/ice barrier	?		soul leech
    
    	### 	"no equivalent" category: ###
    	
    time warp		
    arcane intellect		
    						battle rez (soulstone)
    						banish
    
    	### 	"don't care" category: ###
    
    teleport					summoning
    conjure refreshments				healthstone
    slow fall					unending breath (lol)
    I consider all polymorph, counterspell, spellsteal and remove curse as superior as they don't require you to take suboptimal pet (unless they all do the same DPS now?) and are all available at the same time with shorter cooldowns.

    The "don't care category" are things that wouldn't sway me one way or the other.

    Not included in this table are:
    - class fantasy (I like both)
    - fire + frost + arcane vs. destruction + demonology + affliction (fun & ease of use)**
    - frost utility in M+ in slowing/kiting
    - pet vs no-pet class (ease of use in 'world content' vs. problems with pet AI? - is this still a thing?)

    I didn't play mage or lock in Legion other than invasion-levelling, so all their specs are fresh/new to me.



    * - all of this is subjective and potentially uninformed as I haven't played in some time, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong; also note that this is PVE perspective as that is what I intend to play mostly
    ** - fun is subjective of course; 'ease of use' - after maining shadow priest for a few years I refuse to play a specc that requires me to put in way more effort than other classes just to get their results (DPS)
    You are forgetting quite a lot of things the lock can do. Obviously a mage player but thats fine.

    Fear, coil, demonic circle(with a 10 seconds cd), dark pact/demon skin for insane survivability to name a few. Plus you can talent the aoe stun to only be 45 sec cd. Its not only mildly superior to frost nova its majorly superior.

    Locks also have an absolute shitton of self healing
    Last edited by mmocfe2bab4c21; 2018-08-12 at 05:42 PM.

  17. #17
    Deleted
    Well I played a druid in Legion so I don't really consider myself mage or lock just yet.

    As for your argument - fear and personal summons are considered in my table. Coil/demonic circle/demonic skin are not - as I was comparing base line utility and not talents.

  18. #18
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludwik View Post
    Well I played a druid in Legion so I don't really consider myself mage or lock just yet.

    As for your argument - fear and personal summons are considered in my table. Coil/demonic circle/demonic skin are not - as I was comparing base line utility and not talents.
    You cant just compare baseline utility and say that class is then better though. I also dont see how you can compare fear with invisibility. Fear is a CC, if anything it should be compared with poly. Destruction also has another aoe stun from its infernal.

    Besides all that, locks still have an absolute ton of self healing

    Warlocks also have basnish and enslave demon
    Last edited by mmocfe2bab4c21; 2018-08-12 at 05:53 PM.

  19. #19
    Deleted
    Sorry about fear vs. invisibility misunderstanding. I was considering them as 'self-defense' tool in world content & dungeons/raids. In both cases I consider invisibility as superior simply because it's the safe option (no risk of aggroing a bunch of other mobs). And if you want to compare fear with poly, well, I think poly wins anyway, doesn't it?

    As for self healing - I agree, it's way better for locks, however in content that I'm mostly interested in - M+ & raids - in the end if I die it will still be healers' fault unless I stand in fire or do something stupid. No amount of self healing / armour / self damage reduction will change that perception.

    I will give you banish and enslave demon. The question is - are they better than reliable and constantly available poly+counterspel+spellsteal+remove curse and time warp & arcane intellect? Because I personally think that they are really, really situational.


    PS. I also don't think that destro's infernal is up to continuous frosts' kiting potential.

  20. #20
    To the OP: the cons you provide for mage is xmog... while you provide real cons for warlock...

    The choice for you is obvious here.

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