vengance self heal nerfed to the ground ?

[tutrus]

is this a scaling issue or is vengance healing just garbage now ?

my character has 46k hp and soul cleave heals for 1650 and orbs heal for 500

the training dummy kills me super fast and before the patch i could tank it litterally 100 times longer than i can now

[Deleted]

each orb heals up to 8% of damage taken in last 5 sec so don't mind the tooltip on that

[ro9ue]

I found this to be true on both my Blood DK and Vengeance DH. It's possible they did the same thing they did at the beginning of Legion, make tanks require a healer. Which is unfortunate.

[tutrus]

thats dumb, i liked tanking in random dungeons and things like that to skip queue but probably wont bother if this is how they are nerfing tanks

[Tech614]

I found this to be true on both my Blood DK and Vengeance DH. It's possible they did the same thing they did at the beginning of Legion, make tanks require a healer. Which is unfortunate.

Yes, tank self sustain is no where near surviving difficult content without a healer anymore. And it's far less then even beginning of legion tbh.

That might change with scaling as the xpac go's on but tank self healing is now just a reactive benefit and no longer your primary means of survival. You will need to rotate between having brand up, having DS up, having SB up(if talented) and having enough souls to help heal spikes when nothing is up. Self healing is just part of your survival kit now, no longer your entire survival kit.

[Shelly]

It's not garbage, if anything VDH has probably the strongest of self-healing available right now.

It's just that they nerfed tank self-sustain across the board for BfA.

They have made armor a big deal again and from the look of it returned to a block value instead of a percentage.

It's not quite a return to BC, bosses still won't hit you with a crushing blow, but they definitely made a conscious decision for BfA to slow down gameplay as a whole and increase the need for team roles across the board.

[tutrus]

so if its intended to be this bad have vengance gotten better defenses overall to compensate ?

[Blightrose]

so if its intended to be this bad have vengance gotten better defenses overall to compensate ?

No, all tanks have been nerfed so they all need to rely more on their healers again.

[Awyee]

No, all tanks have been nerfed so they all need to rely more on their healers again.

Brewmaster has always relied on healers and hasn't really been touched. One of the harder tank specs to play optimally (balancing ISB, purifying at the right time, getting brew regen at a good % etc etc) but it's pretty rewarding once you've got it down

[Blightrose]

Brewmaster has always relied on healers and hasn't really been touched. One of the harder tank specs to play optimally (balancing ISB, purifying at the right time, getting brew regen at a good % etc etc) but it's pretty rewarding once you've got it down

True they didnt get nerfed that hard, although they now stagger less magic damage before (even if the difference is minimal), they seem to be a in really good place.
I have played it myself and I find it a little boring compared to vengeance but it is a matter of preferance I guess.

[Nahela]

so if its intended to be this bad have vengance gotten better defenses overall to compensate ?

Vengeance is one of the worst defensively by a large margin.

And yes, currently Soul Cleave healing is extremely low. The primary reason for using it is there's not much else to spend pain on, but realistically you should only be using Soul Cleave if you have open GCDs and there's zero danger incoming. Even then, it's debatable to cast in a single target situation vs. just using Fracture if it's up or hitting Shear.

[Melsiren]

It's the same shit Blizzard had been attempting to do since the end of MoP.

Lower tank dps output.
Lower the control a tank has over their own survivability.

Sometimes I wonder if the tank role only exists to enhance the gaming experience of the healers and DPS.

The way I see it, tanks need to have a meaningful impact on something to feel enjoyable.

[Blightrose]

It's the same shit Blizzard had been attempting to do since the end of MoP.

Lower tank dps output.
Lower the control a tank has over their own survivability.

Sometimes I wonder if the tank role only exists to enhance the gaming experience of the healers and DPS.

The way I see it, tanks need to have a meaningful impact on something to feel enjoyable.

well you can try and do your raids and mythics without tanks and see exactly how much impact they have on the game.

[Melsiren]

well you can try and do your raids and mythics without tanks and see exactly how much impact they have on the game.

I think you missed my point.

Over time tanks are getting less control over their own survivability and are making less and less of an impact in the damage department.

I have been doing this a long time, I have gone from threat being the name of the game to threat being meaningless. I have seen tanks deal barely any damage to topping charts with vengeance cheesing. I have seen tanks having only passive mitigation to active mitigation, which is an entire discussion on it's own.

The issue at hand, and my point is whenever tanks get (in my opinion) a meaningful impact on the group outside of taking hits Blizzard takes it away or waters it down.

In my perfect world there would be harsher and more frequent AM checks. Tanks could choose to shift defensive power for an offensive gain.

Tanking in Warcraft to me, needs to have more meaningful choices because as of right now I feel I am there for the enjoyment of others. Tanking is getting more and more dull over the years.

[Narabug]

Over time tanks are getting less control over their own survivability and are making less and less of an impact in the damage department.

My experience so far is that we do need a healer - we're no longer able to just out-heal negligible damage that is found in normal dungeons like we used to. However, as content gets harder, we are able to heal more. In my m0 runs I am still consistently out-healing the healer for the group.