1. #7041
    The Insane Chickat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrad Wagner View Post
    I don't think so. Mechagnomes have a culture of their own and have a different aesthetic than regular Gnomes do. Same goes for Draenei who are quite chill and Lightforged Draenei who are Light fanatics, although I would agree the difference in aesthetic between those two races is very thin.
    The Broken of Argus should have been the race tbh. They share a skeleton. They look good. No reason they aren't playable. I want a Broken Shaman so badly =/

  2. #7042
    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrad Wagner View Post
    I don't think so. Mechagnomes have a culture which is their own and have a different aesthetic than regular gnomes do. Same with the draenei who are quite chill and the Lightforged who are light fanatics.
    How is their culture different? I am just disappointed with the lore of Mechagon. They are essentially a separate group of gnomes who decided to start augmenting themselves and at some point their king went mad. Existing gnomes already do mechanical prosthetics they are just not as zealous about them. We don't even know if they are a separate group of mechagnomes than the ones that followed Archaedas in Uldaman.
    As for the Lightforged, they just don't seem that fanatical to me with the exception of Enaara, but that's about Enaara not about the Lightforged themselves (I mean they stood down when Illidan eyefucked their god in front of them, that doesn't really speak of fanaticism).

  3. #7043
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    I do think Mechagnomes are different enough to be their own allied race. Tauren and Lightforged are not.

  4. #7044
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    The Broken of Argus should have been the race tbh. They share a skeleton. They look good. No reason they aren't playable. I want a Broken Shaman so badly =/
    Indeed, the Broken were far more interesting since they subvert an existing theme. Heck they could have easily kept Brox alive and have him on a leadership position among the Krokul and have the Krokul join the Horde because of their distrust of Velen (and it would have allowed Horde races to actually feel more involved during 7.3 by having a character that was clearly on their side).

  5. #7045
    Scarab Lord Fahrad Wagner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    How is their culture different? I am just disappointed with the lore of Mechagon. They are essentially a separate group of gnomes who decided to start augmenting themselves and at some point their king went mad. Existing gnomes already do mechanical prosthetics they are just not as zealous about them. We don't even know if they are a separate group of mechagnomes than the ones that followed Archaedas in Uldaman.
    As for the Lightforged, they just don't seem that fanatical to me with the exception of Enaara, but that's about Enaara not about the Lightforged themselves (I mean they stood down when Illidan eyefucked their god in front of them, that doesn't really speak of fanaticism).
    Well their whole culture was about being purified of the curse of flesh by going back to mechanical bodies. To me, that's enough of a difference. If we follow your thought, Zandalari are just Trolls with a gold fetish, Highmountain Taurens are just mountain taurens, Kul Tirans are just fat sailors, etc.

    I agree about the Lightforged though, with the exception of Enaara being nuts hehe!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Indeed, the Broken were far more interesting since they subvert an existing theme.
    Agreed! :/

  6. #7046
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Indeed, the Broken were far more interesting since they subvert an existing theme. Heck they could have easily kept Brox alive and have him on a leadership position among the Krokul and have the Krokul join the Horde because of their distrust of Velen (and it would have allowed Horde races to actually feel more involved during 7.3 by having a character that was clearly on their side).
    Lol, yeah. They don't trust velen so they join the faction with a race that willingly joined the Legion for power and tried to murder every member of the peaceful Eredar on their planet.

  7. #7047
    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrad Wagner View Post
    I don't think so. Mechagnomes have a culture of their own and have a different aesthetic than regular Gnomes do. Same goes for Draenei who are quite chill and Lightforged Draenei who are Light fanatics, although I would agree the difference in aesthetic between those two races is very thin.
    I will definetly create a mechagnome, I love them! it seems that's an unpopular opinion here in the forums tho

  8. #7048
    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrad Wagner View Post
    Well their whole culture was about being purified of the curse of flesh by going back to mechanical bodies. To me, that's enough of a difference. If we follow your thought, Zandalari are just Trolls with a gold fetish, Highmountain Taurens are just mountain taurens, Kul Tirans are just fat sailors, etc.

    I agree about the Lightforged though, with the exception of Enaara being nuts hehe!
    I mean I'd say Enaara makes more sense than the rest.
    On Gnomes vs mechagnomes. Both value the same things; ingenuity expressed through technological advancement. Removing the curse of flesh is not what the Rustbolt (and presumable what junker gnome society) are about; they are about marrying technology with flesh to bring a better whole; it's King Mechagon who is obsessed with removing the curse and that is a retread of several other stories in WoW at best (Lei Shen did it vastly better). But culturally they are very similar and you could easily see the two cultures merge to the point of no longer being distinct in a generation or two.

    Compare that to Darkspear vs Zandalari. It's like comparing the Kaldorei with the Quel'dorei, their cultures are just far more divergent. Zandalari observance of the Loas seems far more social than religious; the majority seems to worship the Loa to get ahead and be part of their society rather than because of deep religious fervor like the Darkspear do. They are also a far more advanced civilization than that of the Darkspear with a strong living city and an urban culture.

    When it comes to the Highmountain vs normal Tauren again I'll agree that there is just no difference. They are just tauren from a different area. There is nothing more special about a Highmountain Tauren than if we had a Tauren clan that primarily lived in Thousand Needles. Heck Grimtotem would likely have been more interesting since they have a much more cutthroat culture than the rest of the Tauren. Highmountain are more of an alternative starting area only they don't even have that (imo Allied Races should have had some starting area for questing so you can actually identify them before getting lost in their faction stories to which they have no relation; that or start at high level and cost a boost to roll one).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Lol, yeah. They don't trust velen so they join the faction with a race that willingly joined the Legion for power and tried to murder every member of the peaceful Eredar on their planet.
    But they don't know that. Read my entire premise. The only orcs the Krokul know of is Broxigar. They never left Argus and have no idea what happened in Draenor. What if Brox was never killed but rather taken as a slave and then escaped to join the Krokul? All they'd have known is of a race strong and fearless enough to face Sargeras himself.

  9. #7049
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    But they don't know that. Read my entire premise. The only orcs the Krokul know of is Broxigar. They never left Argus and have no idea what happened in Draenor. What if Brox was never killed but rather taken as a slave and then escaped to join the Krokul? All they'd have known is of a race strong and fearless enough to face Sargeras himself.
    And you think he's just going to magically keep it a secret that 95% of the other orcs in existence are visibly fel green like him and living on a planet that isn't the one they're from? There's no chance that they heard, at any point, about Gul'dan or the Legions' efforts towards Azeroth? Is Broxigar just going to completely lie about his entire history and tell them the orcs are all super great people dedicated to fighting the Legion?

  10. #7050
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    And you think he's just going to magically keep it a secret that 95% of the other orcs in existence are visibly fel green like him and living on a planet that isn't the one they're from? There's no chance that they heard, at any point, about Gul'dan or the Legions' efforts towards Azeroth? Is Broxigar just going to completely lie about his entire history and tell them the orcs are all super great people dedicated to fighting the Legion?
    All the Krokul are fel green too. Why would they care about what some others orcs did. The Horde showed up in Argus, helped the Krokul and destroyed the Legion. They can join them or they can join the Alliance who did the same but also have Velen who they aparently do not like at all.

  11. #7051
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    All the Krokul are fel green too. Why would they care about what some others orcs did. The Horde showed up in Argus, helped the Krokul and destroyed the Legion. They can join them or they can join the Alliance who did the same but also have Velen who they aparently do not like at all.
    Let's present a scenario.

    One day aliens come from space and invade Earth trying to wipe out all life in existence. You know you can't win so you agree to send all of your civilians on a space ship to escape. The space ship never comes back. Eventually you get pretty mad about that.

    Later you see one other, different alien who fights against the aliens who invaded earth and kills a bunch, he manages to get away and you meet up with him.

    You find out from him, (or from other people later) that he's from the planet your Ark ship went to, what a coincidence! And that almost every single member of his entire race joined those aliens that invaded you for glory and power, and then began slaughtering every human they could find, using their bones to pave roads and their souls to power the same magic the aliens who invaded Earth use!

    Meanwhile, you also found out that some of your people, who split from the civilian group, have been fighting for thousands of years against the forces of the aliens who invaded earth as an army of light-powered warriors. Eventually, they return to earth with two other types of strange aliesn and start fighting the Evil Aliens for hundreds of years. After a while, some more of your lost people also show up including the leader who you were mad at for leaving, and they help those other fighters who have been protecting and fighting alongside you for hundreds of years, and together they finally put an end to the Evil Aliens forever.

    Now.

    You can choose to either join the faction that your refugees have been sheltered by, which is also the faction that those two aliens who showed up with your people's light-warriors originally came from, who you have been fighting by for hundreds of years now. But also the faction that guy you don't like is working with, even though now he's also helped save you and destroy the Evil Aliens.

    Or you can choose to join the faction that the one hero's race of genocidal bloodthirsty conquerer's are from, who after slaughtering the remants of your Ark ship, then went with the Evil Aliens to go invade another planet and kill all the people there too.

    Which do you think is the more logical thing to do? Stay angry at someone you helped flee for never coming back even though they came back in force and drove off the invaders? Or join the group that willingly helped your greatest enemy and slaughtered the women and children you tried to let escape, because you met one of them and he killed a bunch of demons in the past and then died a few decades later of old age.
    Last edited by Hitei; 2019-05-10 at 09:27 AM.

  12. #7052
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    I do think Mechagnomes are different enough to be their own allied race. Tauren and Lightforged are not.
    I'm pretty convinced that, had they come to the idea sooner, they might well have made LF Draenei and possibly HM Tauren into earned cosmetics in the same way that NE Night Warriors are cosmetics. Sure, they have different racials, but they didn't have to, and I think LF Draenei particularly would have worked very well as an earned cosmetic by following a storyline to assist some Draenei in becoming Lightforged. Equally the HM Tauren are a race, but you could have had a storyline where some other Tauren got blessed by the appropriate being and granted HM Tauren antlers and markings, so they could have just been cosmetic options for Tauren.

    But that's hindsight. Blizzard hadn't done the cosmetic thing then, that all came later. I presume the whole upright normal orcs thing only happened because they worked out that they could do it whilst developing the Maghar.

    Mechagnomes are a bit more of a big deal, because y'know cutting off your limbs and replacing them and so on is a bit more, er, extreme, so I think it's viable to make them a new race, not just a set of cosmetic options.

    I'm still hoping they do Wildhammer Dwarves myself, but I'd certainly be fine if they were just new cosmetic options that opened up for normal Dwarves after you did some kind of quest (probably also a new gryphon mount), though I'd also be fine with them as a race. And I think you could shut up about 93% of the High Elf crowd by giving Void Elves some HE skin tone and hair colour/style options (not that I think Blizzard cares).

  13. #7053
    I feel like that parable lost its train of thought somewhere in the middle. If anything, it shows that not all the aliens are alike, and you might even realize they were misled, just like the ones from your race that joined the evil aliens - not to mention that they were corrupted by one of your former leaders.
    And you might see those that freed themselves from the evil influence as more trustworthy than those of your kind that, to your knowledge, did nothing but flee.

    However, I'm actually of the opinion that with how diverse both factions are now, the ongoing faction conflict and player/character race split makes less and less sense.
    Last edited by Nathanyel; 2019-05-10 at 01:08 PM.

  14. #7054
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    I do think Mechagnomes are different enough to be their own allied race. Tauren and Lightforged are not.
    Exactly the opposite. Mechagnomes are nearly identical to regular gnomes to the point where one wandering through a gnome town wouldn't even be considered odd.
    Even their backstory with having been kicked out of their home is similar.
    Highmountain and Lightforged at least have a different mentality, especially the latter.

    And we've had NPC races with dances before. Even Drustvar witches have a dance for some reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I mean I'd say Enaara makes more sense than the rest.
    On Gnomes vs mechagnomes. Both value the same things; ingenuity expressed through technological advancement. Removing the curse of flesh is not what the Rustbolt (and presumable what junker gnome society) are about; they are about marrying technology with flesh to bring a better whole; it's King Mechagon who is obsessed with removing the curse and that is a retread of several other stories in WoW at best (Lei Shen did it vastly better). But culturally they are very similar and you could easily see the two cultures merge to the point of no longer being distinct in a generation or two.
    We even had the exact same thing as a questline in WotLK, except that time, the one doing it actually knew exactly how to and wasn't trying to do it to non-gnomes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    Mechagnomes are a bit more of a big deal, because y'know cutting off your limbs and replacing them and so on is a bit more, er, extreme, so I think it's viable to make them a new race, not just a set of cosmetic options.
    I disagree. I could easily see a gnome doing it simply to see if it works. Lightforging is not undertaken so lightly in comparison.

    And that's the problem with Mechagnomes, they're just Gnomes²: Even Gnomier. LF Draenei are a different, far more militaristic culture than Exodar Draenei. HM Tauren also have some different approaches than plains Tauren.

  15. #7055
    Now I really want to see one regular mortal cutting off all his limbs and maybe his ears and eyes. And if we are at it, why not half of the upper skull. Friggin' easy, yeah.

  16. #7056
    ^^ What's up with your nick? An alt account or a name change?

  17. #7057
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    ^^ What's up with your nick? An alt account or a name change?
    Judging by the name I guess a fan of mine? /Shrug. Either way I appreciate the gesture.

    I can confirm this is my only account on this site though.

  18. #7058
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    I disagree. I could easily see a gnome doing it simply to see if it works. Lightforging is not undertaken so lightly in comparison.

    And that's the problem with Mechagnomes, they're just Gnomes²: Even Gnomier. LF Draenei are a different, far more militaristic culture than Exodar Draenei. HM Tauren also have some different approaches than plains Tauren.
    I think the whole Night Warrior thing totally undermines your position re: Lightforged, but you're entitled to your opinion.

  19. #7059
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    I think the whole Night Warrior thing totally undermines your position re: Lightforged, but you're entitled to your opinion.
    Is the Night Warrior that whole business with Tyrande or do you mean the customisation?

    Because that imo was a cool unlock. That's the kind of things that they could put behind levelling an Allied Race rather than making the race itself repgated and whatnot imo.

    I dunno for example. Level a KT to 120 you get a thin option or level a void elf to 120 you can use a more Void Night Elf style appearance to it.

  20. #7060
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Is the Night Warrior that whole business with Tyrande or do you mean the customisation?

    Because that imo was a cool unlock. That's the kind of things that they could put behind levelling an Allied Race rather than making the race itself repgated and whatnot imo.

    I dunno for example. Level a KT to 120 you get a thin option or level a void elf to 120 you can use a more Void Night Elf style appearance to it.
    Yeah that's what I mean - re: Lightforged, becoming a Night Warrior is a similarly bonkers/extreme process to becoming a Lightforged Draenei, but one is a race and one is a customization we unlock.

    I really wish they'd quit with the repgating myself. As someone who comes and goes from WoW it's kind of frustrating. I've earned all the Alliance races so far (Kul Tirans were quite annoying to get the rep for, because there's so little you can do), but it'd be a hell of a grind to earn the Maghar and Zandalari - which stinks because I'd love to play the Zandalari. Maybe if there's some kind of catch-up deal at the end of the expansion I'll grab them. I really dislike repgating behind faction-specific reps especially. At least in Legion all the reps were cross-faction ones.

    Getting off-topic but if the next expansion arrives and continues the faction-specific repgating, well, that isn't going to be a "hard pass" for me, but it's going to be a serious negative and make me maybe just quit WoW until they put in a catch-up mechanism. I live for alts, honestly, and if there are fun and engaging ways to get the rep, great - 7th Legion wasn't bad at all - my wife needed to catch up on that and we got it done in 4 days because there were so many ways to get it. But the area-specific ones? Jesus. It's just a case of logging in every time there's an Emissary for them, which is tedious and frustrating.

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