1. #7761
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    I mean just looking at Legion, Broken Shore seemed pretty big until Argus came out. I wouldn't be shocked to find 8.3 to be a similar size to 8.2.
    What was big about Broken Shore? It recycled a zone already in the game and just had one raid and one dungeon (plus the tower). From a content perspective 8.2 wasn't very much especially due to the horrible timegating back then. It was no small patch but it wasn't that content-rich either.

    To expect 8.3 to be as big as 8.2 is quite optimistic (not to say naive) at this point. Just look at how much effort they put into 8.2 and with their notion that it indeed is this expansion's Argus (and Argus is regarded by Blizzard as their biggest patch ever) there is no point to make 8.3 as big as 8.2 or even bigger.

    FYI: the "biggest" patch in WoW for me was 5.2 and the Isle of Thunder. That was hell of a patch with a lot of great new content and a fantastic raid.
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  2. #7762
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    What was big about Broken Shore? It recycled a zone already in the game and just had one raid and one dungeon (plus the tower). From a content perspective 8.2 wasn't very much especially due to the horrible timegating back then. It was no small patch but it wasn't that content-rich either.

    To expect 8.3 to be as big as 8.2 is quite optimistic (not to say naive) at this point. Just look at how much effort they put into 8.2 and with their notion that it indeed is this expansion's Argus (and Argus is regarded by Blizzard as their biggest patch ever) there is no point to make 8.3 as big as 8.2 or even bigger.

    FYI: the "biggest" patch in WoW for me was 5.2 and the Isle of Thunder. That was hell of a patch with a lot of great new content and a fantastic raid.
    While 7.2 was pretty lackluster overall. It did absolutely have a lot of content. Beyond the raid and dungeon. It had questlines for each class, a mount a challenge each spec could attempt, sure it was pulling from a pool of a few challenges instead of being completely custom tailored, but it was still content.

    The problem with 7.2 over Argus was really just that the content was spread out over each class instead of being centralized to one big blowout of a patch story for every class equally.

  3. #7763
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    While 7.2 was pretty lackluster overall. It did absolutely have a lot of content. Beyond the raid and dungeon. It had questlines for each class, a mount a challenge each spec could attempt, sure it was pulling from a pool of a few challenges instead of being completely custom tailored, but it was still content.

    The problem with 7.2 over Argus was really just that the content was spread out over each class instead of being centralized to one big blowout of a patch story for every class equally.
    I forgot about the (mostly very good) class quests, so you're right. I enjoyed 7.2 and played it a lot, it just never felt that huge to me. But in retrospective it was a decent content patch. Maybe the time gating ruined it for me afterwards (well Argus was barely better in that regard and I never liked 7.3).
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  4. #7764
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    I forgot about the (mostly very good) class quests, so you're right. I enjoyed 7.2 and played it a lot, it just never felt that huge to me. But in retrospective it was a decent content patch. Maybe the time gating ruined it for me afterwards (well Argus was barely better in that regard and I never liked 7.3).
    I also didn't much enjoy 7.2 when i was playing. In every expansion there is a point where i hit the wall and get burnt out on the game. And 7.2 was definitely that. I did get a new appreciation for it after 7.3 had been out for a while though, and i started levelling alts and going their class quests for all the unique rewards.

    Again, the problem with 7.2 was not really that there was no content, just that the content was poorly spread out. So saying that Legion had only 1 big patch and that is evidence of BfA not likely having one is pretty poor argumentation.

    That being said though, i do tend to agree with the general gist of the argument. 8.3 is going to take time, and BfA has already had so much extra dev time put into it to try to salvage some of the failed experiments that i think they might have to cut some corner on 8.3 to have 9.0 ready for Q3 release next year.

  5. #7765
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    I guess for me a big patch is more about adding a lot of content rather than specifically adding landmass or populating existing landmass. For me 7.2 was big for sure. The quest lines and class mounts felt like a big, cool deal on top of everything else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxrokur View Post
    I don't even see Golden or Danuser being very active in twitter, besides the new patch is getting way too much time which means they are already working in the last patch and the next expansion to show at blizzcon.

    This is tea leaf reading of the most unhelpful kind. What next, cut open a rabbit and examine the entrails to determine if 8.3 will suck or not?
    Last edited by Eurhetemec; 2019-05-31 at 11:21 AM.

  6. #7766
    The Unstoppable Force Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    I guess for me a big patch is more about adding a lot of content rather than specifically adding landmass or populating existing landmass. For me 7.2 was big for sure. The quest lines and class mounts felt like a big, cool deal on top of everything else.

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    This is tea leaf reading of the most unhelpful kind. What next, cut open a rabbit and examine the entrails to determine if 8.3 will suck or not?
    No need to cut open a rabbit, just visit MMO-C and you shall have the verdict. The game sucks, next patch will suck, the next expansion will suck (unless there is no new expansion because let's face it, dead gaem) and everything just sucks because it's new rather than old. :3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    While 7.2 was pretty lackluster overall. It did absolutely have a lot of content. Beyond the raid and dungeon. It had questlines for each class, a mount a challenge each spec could attempt, sure it was pulling from a pool of a few challenges instead of being completely custom tailored, but it was still content.

    The problem with 7.2 over Argus was really just that the content was spread out over each class instead of being centralized to one big blowout of a patch story for every class equally.
    7.2 was one of those patches that was best if you arrived to it after x amount of time had passed. The timegating was out of this world, but as far as patches go it was no doubt huuuuge. The Class mount questlines and the Mage tower alone carried a lot of my enjoyment.

  7. #7767
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    No need to cut open a rabbit, just visit MMO-C and you shall have the verdict. The game sucks, next patch will suck, the next expansion will suck (unless there is no new expansion because let's face it, dead gaem) and everything just sucks because it's new rather than old. :3

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    7.2 was one of those patches that was best if you arrived to it after x amount of time had passed. The timegating was out of this world, but as far as patches go it was no doubt huuuuge. The Class mount questlines and the Mage tower alone carried a lot of my enjoyment.
    Pretty much. At the end of each expansion during the content drought i usually spend my time levelling alts in preparation for the next expansion in case i get a hankering to play another class. And during Legion, 7.2 content was pretty much the endgame for each class. I went to 7.3 content for catchup gear, sure. But i figured i was done with each class when i had finished mage tower and gotten the mount, it literally gave that much content.

  8. #7768
    The Undying Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Got a bad feeling about this(Not about the game just one small thing.


    Pretty much. At the end of each expansion during the content drought i usually spend my time levelling alts in preparation for the next expansion in case i get a hankering to play another class. And during Legion, 7.2 content was pretty much the endgame for each class. I went to 7.3 content for catchup gear, sure. But i figured i was done with each class when i had finished mage tower and gotten the mount, it literally gave that much content.
    I didn't really do the Mage tower thing. At the time frustration was very easy for me to get to with it. Not worth getting that angry.
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  9. #7769
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Talanji wouldn't be the one to resolve the war. She'd still feel bitter over the Alliance's assault on Dazal'alor. Baine is more likely to be Warchief
    Talanji may not forgive the Alliance per se, but she will eventually realize, if she hasn't already, that ultimately Sylvanas is to blame for the conflict in general. Speculating a bit here, since we've only known her for a few months, but: she is headstrong, but not vengeful. She'll prefer to broker a peace for her people instead of throwing even more of them to a death in war, just to avenge one death, even if it was her father's.

  10. #7770
    Talanji is too new to be Warchief, and I doubt many people care about her as they do about Thrall, Baine and Saurfang. She has also had no part in this rebellion thing going on, so she's pretty much out of the question.

  11. #7771
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    7.2 was one of those patches that was best if you arrived to it after x amount of time had passed. The timegating was out of this world, but as far as patches go it was no doubt huuuuge. The Class mount questlines and the Mage tower alone carried a lot of my enjoyment.
    Yup, I was subbed the entirety of Legion but 7.2 is when there was so much gating there wasn't a whole lot to do, ESPECIALLY if you weren't playing every class. Even then, the Mage Tower and Class mounts were probably the biggest highlight for 7.2.

    This is one of the drawbacks of people who choose to have a main, they don't get the benefits of all the work Blizzard is putting in and then some would even take to forums and say content was null.

    It's one of the things Blizzard carefully balances I assume, like in BFA there's much less of that, you simply would require 1 Horde and 1 Alliance character to experience all of BFA.

  12. #7772
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    That being said though, i do tend to agree with the general gist of the argument. 8.3 is going to take time, and BfA has already had so much extra dev time put into it to try to salvage some of the failed experiments that i think they might have to cut some corner on 8.3 to have 9.0 ready for Q3 release next year.
    That's exactly why I was speculating what 8.3 might be. Let's just follow the idea 8.3 will be rather small in comparison and not have the scope of 7.2, 7.3 or 8.2. That pretty much rules out N'zoth as a raid boss imho which brings it basically down to a wrap up of the faction war with SoO 2.0 either in Stormwind or in Silvermoon imho.

    I absolutely do not see Blizzard commit to an 8.3 that's vast in scope - they're so behind in their schedule with this expansion that it would be really strange if they'd make 8.3 another "massive" content patch.
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  13. #7773
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    That's exactly why I was speculating what 8.3 might be. Let's just follow the idea 8.3 will be rather small in comparison and not have the scope of 7.2, 7.3 or 8.2. That pretty much rules out N'zoth as a raid boss imho which brings it basically down to a wrap up of the faction war with SoO 2.0 either in Stormwind or in Silvermoon imho.

    I absolutely do not see Blizzard commit to an 8.3 that's vast in scope - they're so behind in their schedule with this expansion that it would be really strange if they'd make 8.3 another "massive" content patch.
    I wouldnt say 8.3 being small rules out N'zoth.
    I don't want N'zoth to be the final villain because he would have to share valuable final raid real-estate with the faction war, and SoO at least had the benefit of Y'sharrj not being a corporeal entity, and instead being a driving force that allowed Blizz to merge the disparate faction war elemts (Horde v. Alliance as well as Pandaren v Mantid for instance) Into one big raid without it feeling forced.

    N'zoth would have to be gimped pretty bad unless Sylvanas has the same role as Gul'dan in WoD. Not to mention N'zoth is unique in that like the other old god bosses, he is in a specific area, and i cannot really imagine Blizz will want to have 8.3 in Nazjatar as well, just to squeeze in a N'zoth boss in the same location as Azshara.

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    I have been of the thought that 8.2.5 will essentially allow us to figure out the gist of the ending to BfA, and unless Bliz actually plans ot have a 8.3 similar to Battlefield: Barrens before the final raid in 8.4, building up to a N'zoth and faction war conclusion in the same raid is just not going ot happen.

  14. #7774
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathanyel View Post
    Talanji may not forgive the Alliance per se, but she will eventually realize, if she hasn't already, that ultimately Sylvanas is to blame for the conflict in general. Speculating a bit here, since we've only known her for a few months, but: she is headstrong, but not vengeful. She'll prefer to broker a peace for her people instead of throwing even more of them to a death in war, just to avenge one death, even if it was her father's.
    Far more than just one person died, though. Even if Talanji could want peace, the people who lost their family from the Alliance raid might not be all too happy to see Talanji act in such a way. Her people might just see her as being weak. Zandalar was where the trolls first settled and it's the longest standing empire, they take pride in that. Seems exceedingly unlikely to me that they'd settle for peace.

    That said, it's WoW, so peace is probably how it'll go down.

  15. #7775
    It's either Baine, or Thrall saying "no more warchiefs".

    I'm suspecting it's No More Warchiefs, Blizz knows a lot of people don't like Baine.

  16. #7776
    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    It's either Baine, or Thrall saying "no more warchiefs".

    I'm suspecting it's No More Warchiefs, Blizz knows a lot of people don't like Baine.
    Agreed. I'm pretty sure that was partially also why Tyrande stormed out and took on Darkshore by herself...building a setup where both the Alliance and the Horde have a leadership council rather than a King/Warchief. That also provides a great way to allow cross-faction play and/or all races on both factions if the Alliance/Horde allow a member of the opposite faction to be on this leadership council.

    Perhaps Saurfang is the Alliance Emissary for the Horde and Jaina (after she stops hating the Horde) becomes the Horde Emissary for the Alliance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    I guess for me a big patch is more about adding a lot of content rather than specifically adding landmass or populating existing landmass. For me 7.2 was big for sure. The quest lines and class mounts felt like a big, cool deal on top of everything else.
    I could see that, and perhaps I need to give more thought to quests and the like when thinking of big patches. To me though, none of the class mount chains took all that long, so it's hard for me to overall consider it big. Same with the Mage Tower, which at it's base was simply a few solo boss fights. That being said, it had a ton of replayability and really did a good job of keeping me playing, even after Argus had run a bit dry content-wise. Timeless Isle I feel was similar in this regard...really not a ton of quests and the like, but the rare spawn rate and the various reward drops really had a way of making the content feel highly replayable.

    Perhaps that's what I'd like to see really for 8.3. It doesn't really need a new land mass to be a good patch (though I'd still argue it's hard to call it big without one), but if they give a lot of replayability to the content and make you want to log in every day, then it can still be a success. I'd personally like to see them add in some Heritage Weapons behind a race-based Mage Tower like thing. Perhaps use an existing place like Silvermoon, but update it so that there's something there every day beyond just WQs to incentivize long term play.

    Do it right, and Blizz can still make 8.3 properly help with the likely incoming content drought without it needing to be a "big" patch. That way, they can put extra effort into 9.0 as well and start off the next expansion the right way.

  17. #7777
    Elemental Lord Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    It's either Baine, or Thrall saying "no more warchiefs".

    I'm suspecting it's No More Warchiefs, Blizz knows a lot of people don't like Baine.
    its just the natural path of the events.


    the alliance became like the horde with the high king/warchief and the horde become like the alliance with no leadership/council

    what a bullshit move

  18. #7778
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    its just the natural path of the events.


    the alliance became like the horde with the high king/warchief and the horde become like the alliance with no leadership/council

    what a bullshit move
    If they continue with the Arthas/Anduin stuff, we may lose the High King position too.

  19. #7779
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    I think we're putting Blanchy before the horse a little too fast. I don't think Blizzard is that willing to get rid of the Warchief title. That's always been a thing. High King...different matter and I don't believe thats the intention going forward.
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  20. #7780
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    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    If they continue with the Arthas/Anduin stuff, we may lose the High King position too.
    What Arthas/Anduin stuff?
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