1. #6901
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Some said stuff about Dragons and Dragon Isles, Some even think of a Black Empire kinda deal. Bolvar is one of them but it's much more subtle(Taelia being developed along the Kul'Tirian journey) and the Death Knight Campaign from Legion are obvious hints). Then there's all the little tiny breadcrumbs on the Island Expeditions.
    Needle in a stack of needles. Have fun finding the right one.

  2. #6902
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    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    (Hi, haven't seen you in a while, nice surprise. Not going to talk about dev-effort, that's not going to lead anywhere. Agree that a lot of effort does not necessarily translate into a lot of gameplay, easy things could provide tons of fun, etc.)

    I think the general opinion is that we are going to awaken NZoth or that he gets into power by himself. If you are asking about Sylvanas, I really don't know what will happen to her, there are many alternatives and I didn't saw any strong pointers towards anything specific.
    Haha thanks re: back!

    So with Nzoth is the thinking more that 8.3/8.3.5 is fighting it and some sort of re-established Black Empire, or it more like he is awoken and escapes at the end of the expansion, leading directly into a new expansion? I do have to say, as someone who has played since day 1, I'm not personally super-excited to spend an entire new expansion messing with the Old Gods. But I suspect many/most players started far more recently (NOT A BAD THING OR AN INSULT PEOPLE!!! ), so are maybe a little less fatigued by the whole concept or even actively enthused.

    Re: Sylvanas, based on what I've played since coming back and the lore I've been looking at and so on, I'm kind of still making Sylvanas for making some kind of attempt to wrest power from Bolvar. She's obviously lost her marbles (far more so than previously), and has become not a self-interested nihilist, but an actual maniac, so her tenure as warchief is drawing to a close. The NEs eliminated another one of her dwindling number of Valkyr, and so it seems like she's either go to go out in a spectacular fashion or attempt to LK it up. Plus Bolvar has got a whole lot more active.

    Quote Originally Posted by alosiboy View Post
    The community is sort of split in this, some believe it'll lead into a Black Empire expansion, others believe it'll continue with us exploring the Dragon isles. (Obviously there are a few players still speculating on it being LK 2.0).

    Personally I believe it'll be a N'zoth/Black Empire expansion, and 8.3 will be more about the preparations to face him while we make sure the world doesn't go boom.
    Ahhh interesting. When I was last around the speculation was more like:

    BfA: Nzoth will rise and be defeated
    Next Expansion: Lich King 2
    Next Next Expansion: Void Lords

    Which I have to admit was never hugely together/logical, just popular.

    So I guess my question to you and anyone else is what does Nzoth in 8.X and/or the next expansion actually look like? What would a Black Empire expansion look like? Is it focused in a new set of zones, or is a more Cataclysm-ish deal, with either scattered new zones, or revamped zones (possibly only at max level)?

  3. #6903
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    .

    To bring things back to speculation, I've been away for several months, are we still expecting BfA to lead into a Lich King 2 scenario, or is there some other dominant theory?
    i think that if we are going to deal with death themes, it will be specifically Death and not Undeath. Might seem like semantics but it's different in Warcraft.
    Bwomsamdi doesn't deal in Undeath for example, just death itself. So i don't think it would have to be LK2 perse.
    Last edited by Vyomesh2; 2019-05-07 at 05:13 PM.
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  4. #6904
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    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    ^^ Fair enough with warmode having airdrops / bounties. Yes, they should be counted. I think the point was that both WoD and BFA added few new things and that those new things were not deep, that's why they cannot / could not carry the expansion. Maybe I misunderstood.
    True, but either way BFA has more content than WoD.

  5. #6905
    I might dare to already guess. This kinda feels for me like a week, where the Devs silently develop and we will see no build. Can't really explain why, just have the feeling, but would love to be wrong.

  6. #6906
    I'm definitely in the "let's wrap N'zoth up with 8.3" camp. I've had enough Old God nonsense for a while. I don't want another expansion with Old God themes. (BfA has really been an Old God expansion in disguise. I mean, the themes were present in both Zandalar and Kul Tiras.)

  7. #6907
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaliaKirana View Post
    I'm definitely in the "let's wrap N'zoth up with 8.3" camp. I've had enough Old God nonsense for a while. I don't want another expansion with Old God themes. (BfA has really been an Old God expansion in disguise. I mean, the themes were present in both Zandalar and Kul Tiras.)
    The amount of Old God stuff has been pretty damn small, like not much at all.
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  8. #6908
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    The amount of Old God stuff has been pretty damn small, like not much at all.
    Totally agree. The problem currently with Old Gods is just the amount of enemies and their differences. N'Zoth kinda overuses the Faceless, K'thir and C'Thraxxi models. Besides insectoid buildings and cites, we also never really saw how the landscape would look in a black imperial way.

  9. #6909
    Few years ago I were predicting something like that:

    8.0 Black Empire expac - South Seas - Zandalar (Zul) -> Kul Tiras (Jaina) -> Nazjatar (Azshara) -> Nyalotha (N'zoth) - apart from whole H/A, I think I were pretty close

    9.0 Scourge 2.0 - Bolvar - Necromancer hero class with Kel'Thuzad as leader - cleansed Stratholme as neutral capital - zones: Northern Lordareon (untouched), Northern Plaguelands, Eastern Quel'Thalas, Dragon Isles - patch zones in Old Kingdom under Northend - we finally learn about Void Lords

    10.0 big finale - awakening of Azeroth - Tinker class with titan theme - expac "continent" in space - final Light vs. Void battle

    But after that we learned that Light may be "evil" (from our perspective) as well + Death may be much bigger threat than just Scourge. Also if their plan to squish levels, they will continue WoW for much longer, even if story become totally ridicolous (but this a fate or every story that drag too long, never seen tv show that was "great" beyond season 6 - at best).

  10. #6910
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyomesh2 View Post
    i think that if we are going to deal with death themes, it will be specifically Death and not Undeath. Might seem like semantics but it's different in Warcraft.
    Bwomsamdi doesn't deal in Undeath for example, just death itself. So i don't think it would have to be LK2 perse.
    As long as it's the nice, understanding guy with the Scythe and the faible for mortals.

  11. #6911
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    The amount of Old God stuff has been pretty damn small, like not much at all.
    Have you been playing BFA at all? All of the Zandalar questing concludes with old god stuff, an Kul Tiras uses old god imagery in every building they own, not to mention it all more or less builds up old god stuff. It so rampant from day one that it’s more old god than it ever was faction war.

  12. #6912
    Zek'voz and Mythrax were the only really old god type things in Zandalar besides Uldir as facilitie, which has stand as it's own plot. Also G'Huun is mere just a false Old God and was planning stuff on his own.

    As for Kul Tiras, even the Male KT's have a joke about the squids and stuff in their buildings, which is just more than a typical style element for maritime nation with monster hunters. Just the segment in Stormsong with the Shrine of Storms is Old God related.

  13. #6913
    Quote Originally Posted by Alga View Post
    Totally agree. The problem currently with Old Gods is just the amount of enemies and their differences. N'Zoth kinda overuses the Faceless, K'thir and C'Thraxxi models. Besides insectoid buildings and cites, we also never really saw how the landscape would look in a black imperial way.
    N'zoth's followers have so far disappointed me. The Nerubians and the Mantid for Yogg and Y'shaarj are both so inspired and I think that if the Qiraji would get a chance at modern WoW based on all the art for them they'd be amazing. Plus all those races actually have substance; there is a culture and a structure to them.

    N'zoth has . . . nothing? The C'thrax are not just his, they served all the Old Gods. The K'thir are D&D mind flayers without all the amazing culture and lore that makes the illithid iconic. They also fail to fit the theme; beetles, spiders, locusts and then what? Mollusks? Plus it's a single model. The more alien naga we have gotten definitely work more but because they are naga I associate them more with Azshara than with N'zoth. Did he not get an aqir following?
    And I just think that the tentacle concept is poorly used. It is just one or two tentacles here or there. If they want to channel C'thulhu mythos I'd want swarms of tentacles such that the very geometry of what you see stops being clear which is something tons of art has managed to showcase yet the art team in WoW consistently has failed at. They need more, more, more. Right now N'zoth as an antagonist BORES me.

  14. #6914
    The Undying Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    N'zoth's followers have so far disappointed me. The Nerubians and the Mantid for Yogg and Y'shaarj are both so inspired and I think that if the Qiraji would get a chance at modern WoW based on all the art for them they'd be amazing. Plus all those races actually have substance; there is a culture and a structure to them.

    N'zoth has . . . nothing? The C'thrax are not just his, they served all the Old Gods. The K'thir are D&D mind flayers without all the amazing culture and lore that makes the illithid iconic. They also fail to fit the theme; beetles, spiders, locusts and then what? Mollusks? Plus it's a single model. The more alien naga we have gotten definitely work more but because they are naga I associate them more with Azshara than with N'zoth. Did he not get an aqir following?
    And I just think that the tentacle concept is poorly used. It is just one or two tentacles here or there. If they want to channel C'thulhu mythos I'd want swarms of tentacles such that the very geometry of what you see stops being clear which is something tons of art has managed to showcase yet the art team in WoW consistently has failed at. They need more, more, more. Right now N'zoth as an antagonist BORES me.
    He works behind the scenes more, not outright screaming "MADNESS,CHAOS!!!!!!" I don't know how you can think N'zoth is boring, unless you're impatient. The only thing that doesn't help is N'zoth plans are layered in a Faction war skin.
    Last edited by Aeluron Lightsong; 2019-05-07 at 10:33 PM.
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  15. #6915
    O'thanks Blizzard for proving me wrong: 8.2.0.30329 incoming.

    Edit: 600mb, well still a nice number.
    Last edited by Alga; 2019-05-07 at 10:41 PM.

  16. #6916
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    He works behind the scenes more, not outright screaming "MADNESS,CHAOS!!!!!!" I don't know how you can think N'zoth is boring, unless you're impatient. The only thing that doesn't help is N'zoth plans are layered in a Faction war skin.
    Here is the thing. There are only so many ways to deliver a schemer. You can have someone unseen plotting where you see a story and you can feel an unseen hand behind it but never get to see who it belongs to. That cannot work for N'zoth obviously. Then you can have an open schemer who is deeply involved in the story and just pulls Xanatos gambit after gambit. Now you could say that the Crucible of Storms storyline is N'zoth's gambit. But here is the weakness of the storytelling and it is twofold. Did any of you complete that questline and NOT feel retarded? If Xal'atath and the Naga had maybe sold that catastrophe we were supposed to be stopping better maybe I'd understand why I was doing the bidding of knaifu. For a Xanatos gambit to work, the hero must feel they are actually working for the greater good and defeating the villain. In this story I just felt I got hit with the idiot bat. Doubletime for Horde characters who also then delivered the knife to Sylvanas, even if they were rebels. I mean what exactly did happen because we turned those artifacts in? Because it seems like nothing did. We still needed to get to the Circle of Stars to free him. He could have as well handed Knaifu directly to Sylvanas.
    And the second reason is, Knaifu completely upstages N'zoth as a schemer. She has the voice acting, the deeper connection with any character who followed her in Legion and her scheme actually seems to work much better.

    Beyond that, he is just not exciting as a God. Gods have priesthoods that are modeled after him. N'zoth's good posse are Naga. They didn't exist back in the Black Empire though and are just as much Azshara's as they are his. What makes him special? That he survived? Mostly it feels like he just rode on Yogg's coattails. He has this aquatic theme but because he has to share it with the Naga, he cannot own it.

  17. #6917
    The Undying Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Here is the thing. There are only so many ways to deliver a schemer. You can have someone unseen plotting where you see a story and you can feel an unseen hand behind it but never get to see who it belongs to. That cannot work for N'zoth obviously. Then you can have an open schemer who is deeply involved in the story and just pulls Xanatos gambit after gambit. Now you could say that the Crucible of Storms storyline is N'zoth's gambit. But here is the weakness of the storytelling and it is twofold. Did any of you complete that questline and NOT feel retarded? If Xal'atath and the Naga had maybe sold that catastrophe we were supposed to be stopping better maybe I'd understand why I was doing the bidding of knaifu. For a Xanatos gambit to work, the hero must feel they are actually working for the greater good and defeating the villain. In this story I just felt I got hit with the idiot bat. Doubletime for Horde characters who also then delivered the knife to Sylvanas, even if they were rebels. I mean what exactly did happen because we turned those artifacts in? Because it seems like nothing did. We still needed to get to the Circle of Stars to free him. He could have as well handed Knaifu directly to Sylvanas.
    And the second reason is, Knaifu completely upstages N'zoth as a schemer. She has the voice acting, the deeper connection with any character who followed her in Legion and her scheme actually seems to work much better.

    Beyond that, he is just not exciting as a God. Gods have priesthoods that are modeled after him. N'zoth's good posse are Naga. They didn't exist back in the Black Empire though and are just as much Azshara's as they are his. What makes him special? That he survived? Mostly it feels like he just rode on Yogg's coattails. He has this aquatic theme but because he has to share it with the Naga, he cannot own it.
    I took the whole Xal'atath thing as one of those moments where once again gameplay and..well engagement is more important. Because well....Lightsong would of just left the black blade on the ground or threw it into the ocean(Hence why I just put it into my head). I liked the questline but not necessarily making the player character look stupid(I wouldn't be but this is still a video game at the end of the day).

    I know people like "Knaifu" but I fear N'zoth more for different reasons. He scares me more and Xal'atath just makes me feel like an evil void being is flirting with me.
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  18. #6918
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    N'zoth's followers have so far disappointed me.
    He has probably the most diverse assortment out of all of them... because anybody could potentially be one. Let's not forget he was behind Cataclysm as well.

    You're just looking at the ones openly acting on his behalf.

  19. #6919
    According to the maps, the raid looks long, but not really big. And great Raid Test! More and more a early-to-mid June Release seems possible.
    Last edited by Alga; 2019-05-07 at 11:18 PM.

  20. #6920
    Welp Mechagnomes have a dance
    https://youtu.be/-bYa4DMdQtE
    Yohohoho

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