1. #7341
    As long as it ends with a void elf taking a literal shit in the sunwell I don't mind a Silvermoon raid.
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  2. #7342
    Also just throwing some silly theories in. With 8.2 we see Strathholme as Pet Battle Dungeon, before we had Gnomeregan in 8.1 and then we saw Mechagon.

  3. #7343
    Quote Originally Posted by Alga View Post
    Also just throwing some silly theories in. With 8.2 we see Strathholme as Pet Battle Dungeon, before we had Gnomeregan in 8.1 and then we saw Mechagon.
    Yeah, I think it was a cheeky way of hinting that Calia will play her hand in 8.3/there will be Plaguelands stuff going down, and that close proximity to Quel'thelas may point to stuff going down in that area.

  4. #7344
    I want a Dwarf expansion please, dwarves are the most interesting faction in the alliance but they get less development than gnomes lately.

  5. #7345
    Pandaren Monk Throren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegrian View Post
    I want a Dwarf expansion please, dwarves are the most interesting faction in the alliance but they get less development than gnomes lately.
    I swear I am totally not biased when I say...I agree with you.

    (Real talk though, the mines of Moia expansion for LOTRO is one of my fav MMO expansion ever. The entire expansion was ina single dwarf city/mine, so huge it spanned 6 zones and each still felt unique despite all being underground)

  6. #7346
    The Undying Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Throren View Post
    I swear I am totally not biased when I say...I agree with you.

    (Real talk though, the mines of Moia expansion for LOTRO is one of my fav MMO expansion ever. The entire expansion was ina single dwarf city/mine, so huge it spanned 6 zones and each still felt unique despite all being underground)
    Still waiting for an Underground expansion(Maybe not Dwarven wholely themed but it would be part of it(Cause Earthen and such).
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  7. #7347
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    I think 8.3 is going to refocus on the faction war and bring it to a close somehow, not by wholesale joint together, but like Geneva Convention situation.

    Assault on Stormwind.
    Wing 1. On ships as we sail to SW to try and beat the other faction there. Naga, octopus, enemy ship, and siege towers on the dock bosses
    Wing 2. The streets of SW, 3 random bosses that mirror each other, trying to stop the other faction.
    Wing 3. Steps of SW castle, Horde turn on Sylvanas here (final bad thing) Horde fight her. The Alliance fight Nathanos, for reasons.
    Wing 4. Rise of N’Zoth, we fight a herald (again) maybe Light-crazed Anduin, and Xal’atath, her defeat brings N’Zoth, who we don’t fight but is the new big bad, like a Gul’dan in the final movie of WoD.

  8. #7348
    I'll repeat my theory here, for visibility:

    - Helya was the one who weakened Vol’jin, leading to his fatal wound.
    - Vol’jin was already dead when Sylvanas was appointed Warchief. It was Helya manipulating Vol’jin’s corpse. That’s why Vol’jin can’t remember things clearly.
    - Some other entity brought Vol’jin’s spirit back from the Other Side. My bet is Rezan.
    - Once Sylvanas was made warchief, Helya leaked information about Eyir and herself to her, leading her to Stormheim and their pact.
    - Helya survived her own death due to the pact. She’s now in contact with Sylvanas.
    - Sylvanas’ endgame, guided by Helya, is to kill Azeroth and everyone in it, turning the whole world into a realm of undeath, with Helya as its goddess.
    - The whole war is just a distraction while Sylvanas and Helya work in the background towards their endgame.
    - The Void fears Sylvanas because she would lead to the death of the World Soul, and her plans would kill even N’Zoth.
    - However, N’Zoth has his own plans, and is trying to get ahead of Sylvanas.
    - N’Zoth made a pact with Xal’atath because he knew Sylvanas/Helya would use the blade in their plans. So, he freed the entity in it and replaced it with his own essence, essentially derailing Sylvanas/Helya’s plans.
    - Final patch is going to be a four-way conflict between Alliance/Horde/Sylvanas/N’Zoth. The Alliance/Horde part will be developed in questing, while the battle between Death and Void will be the theme of the final raid.
    - “On the eve of her third death” is about Helya. Her death will lead to N’Zoth freeing himself.
    - I still think the final patch will be set in Quel’thalas and both Helya and N’Zoth want the Sunwell to power their efforts.
    - I also still think the void elves will be revealed as mostly traitors serving the Void in the final patch. Not all of them, but I think Umbric will be one of the traitors. They will lay a trap to transform more elves, since a lot of thalassians in both sides will be present in a Quel’thalas story. You know where this goes... That’s how void elves will get a “real race” status.
    - So, in essence, Alliance has been used as pawns of the Void, while Horde was manipulated by Death.
    - N’Zoth will be freed but not as we imagine it. Rather than breaking his prison, his essence in Xal’atatah will gain a mortal form, in a Nyarlathotep way, and he will be set up as a villain to plague us over future expansions.
    Not a native english speaker, so pardon my typos and grammar errors.

  9. #7349
    Mechagnome AbuOfUluru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    I'll repeat my theory here, for visibility:

    - Helya was the one who weakened Vol’jin, leading to his fatal wound.
    - Vol’jin was already dead when Sylvanas was appointed Warchief. It was Helya manipulating Vol’jin’s corpse. That’s why Vol’jin can’t remember things clearly.
    - Some other entity brought Vol’jin’s spirit back from the Other Side. My bet is Rezan.
    - Once Sylvanas was made warchief, Helya leaked information about Eyir and herself to her, leading her to Stormheim and their pact.
    - Helya survived her own death due to the pact. She’s now in contact with Sylvanas.
    - Sylvanas’ endgame, guided by Helya, is to kill Azeroth and everyone in it, turning the whole world into a realm of undeath, with Helya as its goddess.
    - The whole war is just a distraction while Sylvanas and Helya work in the background towards their endgame.
    - The Void fears Sylvanas because she would lead to the death of the World Soul, and her plans would kill even N’Zoth.
    - However, N’Zoth has his own plans, and is trying to get ahead of Sylvanas.
    - N’Zoth made a pact with Xal’atath because he knew Sylvanas/Helya would use the blade in their plans. So, he freed the entity in it and replaced it with his own essence, essentially derailing Sylvanas/Helya’s plans.
    - Final patch is going to be a four-way conflict between Alliance/Horde/Sylvanas/N’Zoth. The Alliance/Horde part will be developed in questing, while the battle between Death and Void will be the theme of the final raid.
    - “On the eve of her third death” is about Helya. Her death will lead to N’Zoth freeing himself.
    - I still think the final patch will be set in Quel’thalas and both Helya and N’Zoth want the Sunwell to power their efforts.
    - I also still think the void elves will be revealed as mostly traitors serving the Void in the final patch. Not all of them, but I think Umbric will be one of the traitors. They will lay a trap to transform more elves, since a lot of thalassians in both sides will be present in a Quel’thalas story. You know where this goes... That’s how void elves will get a “real race” status.
    - So, in essence, Alliance has been used as pawns of the Void, while Horde was manipulated by Death.
    - N’Zoth will be freed but not as we imagine it. Rather than breaking his prison, his essence in Xal’atatah will gain a mortal form, in a Nyarlathotep way, and he will be set up as a villain to plague us over future expansions.
    Good theory. Seems plausible to me

  10. #7350
    This thread is of immense value. Thanks for the amazing responses.

  11. #7351
    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    I'll probably make a longer Speculation thread about it (getting flashbacks to the Gnome patch prediction) but for now, here's why it would be Silvermoon versus Stormwind.

    Silvermoon
    -Sunwell macguffin
    -Arthas parallels with Sylvanas (as well as Sylvanas paralells with Delaryn Summermoon)
    -as someone mentioned earlier, Arthas parallels with Anduin as well (if Sylvanas has already occupied it, it'll be Mini Arthas (maybe literally) attacking Silvermoon for good intentions this time)
    -Arthas's march on Silvermoon got a "reminder" quest with Blood Elf heritage
    -Sunreavers turned into an enemy faction in the Baine War Campaign (San'layn may also be lurking around)
    -Void Elf versus Blood Elf foreshadowing throughout the expansion
    -updated Silvermoon guards were included a while back for very little reason
    -currently lacking both its leader and its champion: possibly the reason why Sylvanas sent Lor'themar to Nazjatar
    -heritage armor/warfront armor patterns points to Draenei vs Darkspear, which hints at Azuremyst (Panda warfront is very unlikely)
    -Azuremyst warfront pairs well with Silvermoon raid for TBC areas
    -Ghostlands and Silvermoon are more themed around Sylvanas, 8.3 is being foreshadowed as a Sylvanas's Endgame Patch (Warbringers, Jeremy Feasel interview)
    -MOP played straight, sort of, which is more of a twist IMO than "it's an alliance city this time"

    Stormwind
    -Sylvanas mentioned it in the book
    -Nathanos mentions it in game
    -MoP twist: "it's the alliance's turn"

    I'm very much ready to eat crow on this one, but I am very much doubting that we're going to crawl through Stormwind which is suddenly somehow filled with enemies. I can see someone saying "but-but Dazar'alor! we're getting an alliance raid too" but I believe Blizzard intended that to parallel with Siege of Boralus.
    I agree with your reasoning but I see problems trying to spin expectations like this and selling it well.

  12. #7352
    Quote Originally Posted by benting View Post
    I agree with your reasoning but I see problems trying to spin expectations like this and selling it well.
    I think the plan is "TBC areas redone will ease anger that it wasn't an Alliance city this time", and I think in the long run it'll work, but there will be an outcry for sure.

    Arguably a smaller one than Stormwind being attacked though. I also think the majority opinion is that the last raid is Nzoth, not a city raid.
    Last edited by EbaumsTipster; 2019-05-17 at 02:04 PM.

  13. #7353
    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    I think the plan is "TBC areas redone will ease anger that it wasn't an Alliance city this time", and I think in the long run it'll work, but there will be an outcry for sure.

    Arguably a smaller one than Stormwind being attacked though. I also think the majority opinion is that the last raid is Nzoth, not a city raid.
    There will be an outcry for everything, which will follow. Maybe even further with 9.0.

  14. #7354
    Should probably take this time to briefly mention a theory someone had once of a final raid that would be awesome on every level you want it to be.

    Ashes of Teldrassil.
    A raid taking place in the ruined branches of Teldrassil, where Sylvanas has gone to attempt to create an undead army by raising all the dead Night elves that died in the fire.
    It would be a nice bookend ot the story that started when Sylvanas burnt it down to begin with, and allows Blizzard to bring in most all of the plot point of hte expansion, and all this without having to mess about with the faction divide question you would get if the raid was set in Silvermoon or Stormwind.

    The area would also allow for a nice amount of variety, possibly by starting with a naval battle near the roots of Teldrassil, a possible war council going further up, corrupted ancients and wisps. And ending with a nice finale where we stop Sylvanas in the ruined Darnassus.


    Chances of this raid are low though, as Blizz might not want ot show off Darkshore again in the expansion. (Even though this has not stopped them before with other areas)

  15. #7355
    Interesting theories here. I'll try responding to these in sections. My personal theories are quite different, I'll try to get to those a bit later, but I don't want to distract from responding to this.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    - Helya was the one who weakened Vol’jin, leading to his fatal wound.
    - Vol’jin was already dead when Sylvanas was appointed Warchief. It was Helya manipulating Vol’jin’s corpse. That’s why Vol’jin can’t remember things clearly.
    Helya absolutely seems believable in this role. Of the two factions, the Horde would be easiest for her to get access to due to Sylvanas and Sylvanas' fear of what may well be the Shadowlands. I'm not so sure that Vol'jin was dead however, just given how he mentions never trusting Sylvanas beforehand. But given how close he was to death there anyhow, it wouldn't be hard for her to influence his heart and cloud his memory afterwards.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    - Some other entity brought Vol’jin’s spirit back from the Other Side. My bet is Rezan.
    Completely agree. Vol'jin's light-based appearance is the clue here IMO. I also suspect that Vol'jin is going to eventually be Rezan's replacement and Talanji's loa.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    - Once Sylvanas was made warchief, Helya leaked information about Eyir and herself to her, leading her to Stormheim and their pact.
    - Helya survived her own death due to the pact. She’s now in contact with Sylvanas.
    - Sylvanas’ endgame, guided by Helya, is to kill Azeroth and everyone in it, turning the whole world into a realm of undeath, with Helya as its goddess.
    - The whole war is just a distraction while Sylvanas and Helya work in the background towards their endgame.
    If so, I suspect those orders come from someone far higher than Helya. This might be Bwonsamdi's boss as well. This would also explain why some of Sylvanas' actions seem to be less than logical atm.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    - The Void fears Sylvanas because she would lead to the death of the World Soul, and her plans would kill even N’Zoth.
    - However, N’Zoth has his own plans, and is trying to get ahead of Sylvanas.
    - N’Zoth made a pact with Xal’atath because he knew Sylvanas/Helya would use the blade in their plans. So, he freed the entity in it and replaced it with his own essence, essentially derailing Sylvanas/Helya’s plans.
    This would make a ton of sense. It seems like the different forces of the universe (Light/Void/Death/etc) are starting to line up to fight each other. It would also largely explain why Sylvanas is the "enemy to all" as shown in Three Sisters. If true, this makes me wonder what sort of interactions the Naga & Kvaldir might have had in the past as well, working for competing bosses as they would be.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    - Final patch is going to be a four-way conflict between Alliance/Horde/Sylvanas/N’Zoth. The Alliance/Horde part will be developed in questing, while the battle between Death and Void will be the theme of the final raid.
    - “On the eve of her third death” is about Helya. Her death will lead to N’Zoth freeing himself.
    - I still think the final patch will be set in Quel’thalas and both Helya and N’Zoth want the Sunwell to power their efforts.
    - N’Zoth will be freed but not as we imagine it. Rather than breaking his prison, his essence in Xal’atatah will gain a mortal form, in a Nyarlathotep way, and he will be set up as a villain to plague us over future expansions.
    I'm curious how this raid would work as a four way conflict, if they'd all be in the same raid. Would it be something where we'd fight 4-5 against Sylvanas & Death, then 4-5 against N'Zoth and the Void? Or would they be mixed and we'd be working to take both out.

    Helya seems like a solid choice for Third Death...she's largely the one I've been predicting. If it is her, my guess then would be that most of the raid would be more against Sylvanas & Death, with Helya's "third death" springing forth N'Zoth and an Old God 9.0. Is that when N'Zoth would do the mortal form from Xal'atath thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    - I also still think the void elves will be revealed as mostly traitors serving the Void in the final patch. Not all of them, but I think Umbric will be one of the traitors. They will lay a trap to transform more elves, since a lot of thalassians in both sides will be present in a Quel’thalas story. You know where this goes... That’s how void elves will get a “real race” status.
    - So, in essence, Alliance has been used as pawns of the Void, while Horde was manipulated by Death.
    This one I think I disagree on. While many are working with the Void which can be quite dangerous, I personally have trouble seeing Umbric betraying us atm. That experience in Telogrus I think probably scared a good amount of them, plus Alleria has been working to keep them on the right path. Some may, but I suspect that with Blizz trying to show that the Light is not always good that Blizz won't want to turn the Void Elves into traitors working for the Void...if anything, they may be Azeroth's protection from an invasion from Yrel's Army of the Light.

  16. #7356
    Something to add to the Death theme is, that we also have faction splitted stories around Death. The Alliance has the stories of Calia, now with Derek and also the coming Taelia founds out her Daddy is the LK. On the side of the Horde, we have the Vol'jin problem and Talanji's Dealing with Bwonsamdi.

    I count Sylvanas Arc more as a part of it's own doing. And besides her plot and Taelia, all the other plots are in a perfect size for a patch to round the addon up.

  17. #7357
    They make so much woopy doopy about their story that 8.3 will definitely include some big escalation about "battle for azeroth"
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  18. #7358
    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    Completely agree. Vol'jin's light-based appearance is the clue here IMO. I also suspect that Vol'jin is going to eventually be Rezan's replacement and Talanji's loa.
    That's what I think as well. I see Vol'jin becoming the Horde's guiding spirit. The Loa of Warchiefs, so to speak.

    If so, I suspect those orders come from someone far higher than Helya. This might be Bwonsamdi's boss as well. This would also explain why some of Sylvanas' actions seem to be less than logical atm.
    Other death-entities seem to be concerned about balance. Death can't exist without life, or it stagnates, after all. I see Helya as someone that's deeply maddened and unbalanced.

    This would make a ton of sense. It seems like the different forces of the universe (Light/Void/Death/etc) are starting to line up to fight each other. It would also largely explain why Sylvanas is the "enemy to all" as shown in Three Sisters. If true, this makes me wonder what sort of interactions the Naga & Kvaldir might have had in the past as well, working for competing bosses as they would be.
    I didn't think of the naga/kvaldir conflict. Good one remembering that!

    I'm curious how this raid would work as a four way conflict, if they'd all be in the same raid. Would it be something where we'd fight 4-5 against Sylvanas & Death, then 4-5 against N'Zoth and the Void? Or would they be mixed and we'd be working to take both out.
    The way I see, the Alliance/Horde part is dealt in the questing, not the raid. It would be a several-chapter story where the Alliance and the Horde fight each other, find out they've both been manipulated and come to terms that they need to work together or the whole world is doomed. The story then concludes with both fighting to secure the raid's entrance.

    The raid itself is focused on the conflict of Death/Void, with bosses serving these forces. Some possible bosses could include corrupted Umbric, Sylvanas and Helya's new form.

    Helya seems like a solid choice for Third Death...she's largely the one I've been predicting. If it is her, my guess then would be that most of the raid would be more against Sylvanas & Death, with Helya's "third death" springing forth N'Zoth and an Old God 9.0. Is that when N'Zoth would do the mortal form from Xal'atath thing?
    I imagine Helya as the final boss, but of course manifesting in a new form/identity than the one we already knew (maybe a Sylvanas/Helya boss?). N'Zoth's rebirth would then follow during the cinematic, with a small questline to gather info on his new status after it.

    This one I think I disagree on. While many are working with the Void which can be quite dangerous, I personally have trouble seeing Umbric betraying us atm. That experience in Telogrus I think probably scared a good amount of them, plus Alleria has been working to keep them on the right path. Some may, but I suspect that with Blizz trying to show that the Light is not always good that Blizz won't want to turn the Void Elves into traitors working for the Void...if anything, they may be Azeroth's protection from an invasion from Yrel's Army of the Light.
    Here's some food for thought: "The boy-king serves at the master's table. Three lies he will offer you."
    The Alliance has been made a pawn by the Void. Anduin is not corrupted, but has been helping the Void unknowingly.
    What are the three lies? We know one was told before BfA (Ogmot's journal), but we don't know which one was that.
    The second one, seemly confirmed by Sylvanas' words, is that he declared the Alliance is close to victory. This will lead to Azshara's trap, as the vastly superior Alliance fleet will be destroyed, reseting the conflict.
    The third one is probably yet to come.

    Now, about the void elves. WHat made me realise they may be traitors were Danuser's words:

    The Void Elves’ leader, Magister Umbric, plays a prominent role during the Alliance War Campaign. Throughout the campaign, he is humble, helpful, and even offers to take the blame for a failed mission so the player isn’t inconvenienced. This manner is contrasted with the ways in which he helps, which includes creating void portals that dismantle and consume goblin mechs, or transforming the player biologically so they can infiltrate an enemy settlement. This is a way to show both the good and the bad of the Void Elves: They’re incredibly useful, but their utility comes with immense danger, and it’s stressed that they could snap at any time.

    Also:

    Horde players have even more reason to hate and fear the Void Elves. The Void is horribly reactive with their font of holy energy, the Sunwell, and Alleria Windrunner’s visit nearly corrupted it. Horde players on Island Expeditions can encounter the Riftrunners, who are Void Elves nearly consumed by the voices that encourage them to kill and sew chaos.

    I've been very frustrated by the void elves' lack of development since their debut. I also considered those crazy void elves from Island Expeditions just some joke. However, it suddenly downed on me: the Alliance only sees the void elves' helpful side, while the Horde, in both expeditions and invasions, sees them doing really weird stuff. It's almost if they were different people. What if the reason we haven't delved into their mindsets and customs so far is because what's there is pretty much dark?

    What if Umbric was already corrupted before Alleria found him, and he was expecting her because the voices told him of her coming?

    What if he and the void elves are playing along, being as helpful as possible, because the Alliance will ultimately serve the Void's purpose?

    What if the reason the southern islands of Telogrus are off-limits is because shady stuff is happening there?

    So, if the patch goes to Quel'thalas indeed, what if the Silver Covenant and other Alliance high elves form an army to spearhead the Alliance's effort, and then the void elves spring a trap, trying to transform all of them?

    We save the high elves before they are turned completely, and then Umbric and his followers escape into the raid.

    This action finally turns the void elves into a true race, albeit now their theme is that they were victims of the void rather than scholars seeking to study it, while Umbric's original group reveal the Alliance has been helping the void all along ("The boy king serves at the master's table").
    Not a native english speaker, so pardon my typos and grammar errors.

  19. #7359
    What I'm curious about for all the people that think Sylvanas/Helya dying will unleash Nzoth: doesn't the datamining for 8.2 show that Nzoth breaks free after Nazjatar?

  20. #7360
    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    What I'm curious about for all the people that think Sylvanas/Helya dying will unleash Nzoth: doesn't the datamining for 8.2 show that Nzoth breaks free after Nazjatar?
    I'm still waiting more info to adjust the theory.
    We don't really know how the raid ends, so for now I'll risk saying N'Zoth may not be completely free by the end of it.
    Last edited by DeicideUH; 2019-05-17 at 04:52 PM.
    Not a native english speaker, so pardon my typos and grammar errors.

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