BfA Patch Speculation thread (8.3 and later).

[EbaumsTipster]

nzoth for 8.3 would be absolute stupidity. Thousands of years of waiting and planing. Hey guys i am free now. Hey guys i am dead. Absolute waste of lore character. Just cut him loss. Finish faction conflit and let nzoth *** *** up in 9.0.

Noooo!!! B-but Garrosh 2.0!!! Garrosh 2.0!!!!!! No matter how much it makes sense, kill every lore character in existence if it means we don't fight another warchief!

[Sondrelk]

Noooo!!! B-but Garrosh 2.0!!! Garrosh 2.0!!!!!! No matter how much it makes sense, kill every lore character in existence if it means we don't fight another warchief!

Not fighting Sylvanas in 8.3 would be exactly like people complained about concerning GoT though. Removing a twist that has been built up because people already saw it coming, and Sylvanas as a raid boss has been built up for a while, most pressingly in the Warbringers trifecta of Jaina being crowbared in as a boss in 8.2, followed by Azshara in 8.2.

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Speaking of warbringers though, i am really getting more and more curious whether Azshara will actually die in the raid, her being alive would make it almost guaranteed that Sylvanas will be a raid boss and live to fight another day.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Well her "death" animation or when we defeat her animation shows, it doesn't look dead. Just kinda beaten, which if true, thats good. I just HOPE


It isn't another


N'zoth: Ahhh I am free

Queen Azshara: *Blah blah blah yadda yadda new empire and shes queen*


N'zoth: Yeah............lesson one. Never trust a cosmic Horror /crunches Azshara's body.


At least I hope it doesn't end that way.

[Sondrelk]

Well her "death" animation or when we defeat her animation shows, it doesn't look dead. Just kinda beaten, which if true, thats good. I just HOPE


It isn't another


N'zoth: Ahhh I am free

Queen Azshara: *Blah blah blah yadda yadda new empire and shes queen*


N'zoth: Yeah............lesson one. Never trust a cosmic Horror /crunches Azshara's body.


At least I hope it doesn't end that way.

I am aware of her "death" animation, i was always a believer in her dying in the cutscene, especially as none of the parties involved say anything about Azshara after the raid.

Personally i think it could be a fitting way for her character to end, finally being up against the wall. Potentially asking for N'zoth to help his queen, before he declares that she is no queen, but a slave, then dying, preferrably by drowning.

Only problem with that is that it removes any chance left of Tyrande actually gettting a conclusion ot her old arc as an antagonist to Azshara.

[EbaumsTipster]

Azshara has always been destined to get killed by N'zoth the second she was established as his haughty enforcer with an ego problem. Warbringers made this even MORE obvious.

[Verdugo]

The hate obesssion with Thrall is...really stupid.

So is your Jaina obsession, but people dont mention it constantly.

[Sondrelk]

Azshara has always been destined to get killed by N'zoth the second she was established as his haughty enforcer with an ego problem. Warbringers made this even MORE obvious.

I really hope she dies by drowning, would be fitting for her to die an ignoble death as her former subjects watch in apathy.

[EbaumsTipster]

Azshara has always been destined to get killed by N'zoth the second she was established as his haughty enforcer with an ego problem. Warbringers made this even MORE obvious.

The problem is that Tyrande's new antagonist is Sylvanas. I feel like they ditched the long running Nelf history plotline because it had no weight to it anymore for the majority of the audience. Not enough people give a shit about the ancient history aspects of WoW anymore (hence why Zin'Azshari is not important, Suramar was mostly a new aesthetic/concept, Sargeras is barely in Legion, etc) and I have a feeling the lore diehards are becoming a very vocal minority.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

The problem is that Tyrande's new antagonist is Sylvanas. I feel like they ditched the long running Nelf history plotline because it had no weight to it anymore for the majority of the audience. Not enough people give a shit about the ancient history aspects of WoW anymore (hence why Zin'Azshari is not important, Suramar was mostly a new aesthetic/concept, Sargeras is barely in Legion, etc) and I have a feeling the lore diehards are becoming a very vocal minority.

No I think people care far more. Just a error on Blizzard's part. I mean the War of the Ancients trilogy has been out for awhile now and people are aware of it unless you're a hardcore gameplay person(as in you ignore the story which seems really dumb but I digress).

[Sondrelk]

The problem is that Tyrande's new antagonist is Sylvanas. I feel like they ditched the long running Nelf history plotline because it had no weight to it anymore for the majority of the audience. Not enough people give a shit about the ancient history aspects of WoW anymore (hence why Zin'Azshari is not important, Suramar was mostly a new aesthetic/concept, Sargeras is barely in Legion, etc) and I have a feeling the lore diehards are becoming a very vocal minority.

Sure, the Tyrande/Azshara rivalry is definitely not massively important to the plot as stands, but it is still a loose thread that should be dealt with.

I gave an example of how you could solve the plot thread in a single paragraph of dialogue between Azshara and Lor'themar/Thalyssra in possibly another thread.
I don't really need Tyrande being front and center againts Azshara, hogging all the screenspace so we can finish the stroy, but i would at least like an acknowledgment that the story between them is about to end without either acknowledging it.

Zin-azshari is the aspect of Nazjatar that bugs me the most, the entire space is seemingly designed to be thick with lore, everything from how it is presented to the music lends itself really well to giving a narrative conclusion to the long standing elven storyline, and not just Nelf or Nightborne.

Had i gotten my wish here and we were given more of a narrative payoff to this Zin-azshari would have been the focal point of a decently sized questline of Tyrande, Lor'themar, Thalyssra and Umbric talking about the history of the elves since the Sundering, and how at the very least, for all of their philosophical differences, they are still more or less teh same as when Azshara destroyed their old lives and separated them into what they later became.

Such a storyline would mesh really well with the overall story of BfA, and give a reasonable excuse for Blizz later inevitably pushing for Nelves to ignore the crimes the Horde commited against them. It would also funciton asa microcosm of how Horde and Alliance manage to find common ground to fight greater threats, despite their differences.


But insteas Zin'azshari is just there to give a tiny glimpse of the ancient elven empire.
At least the music is really good.

[EbaumsTipster]

Such a storyline would mesh really well with the overall story of BfA, and give a reasonable excuse for Blizz later inevitably pushing for Nelves to ignore the crimes the Horde commited against them. It would also funciton asa microcosm of how Horde and Alliance manage to find common ground to fight greater threats, despite their differences.

That's the thing. I'm pretty sure that Tyrande isn't in 8.2 because she's going to be spammed so hard in the future that people will be sick of her. It's kind of like how Khadgar goes missing after killing Gul'dan in Nighthold despite being a big character in that expansion, or how Velen only becomes a big character in a single patch: characters get shuffled around on a patch by patch basis while never hanging around entirely throughout, unless your name is Jaina Proudmoore (because Thrall/WC3 nostalgiabucks) or Nathanos (likely because Sylvanas replacement).

I would bet you good money that Tyrande is one of the biggest, or maybe THE biggest Alliance character in 8.3 maybe even moreso than Jaina or Anduin, just because of how badly she wants to kill Sylvanas. And because she's the biggest character in 8.3 she had to get the shaft in 8.2.

Of course if this had been an AZSHARA expansion instead of South Seas/N'zoth feat. Azshara too then maybe Tyrande would've been the Jaina of this expansion. But that's another reality entirely.

[DeicideUH]

With the latest trailer in mind, a thunder bluff raid has to happen. In the very least a story scenario were we try to stop Sylvanas.

I can totally see Thunderbluff being a small mid-tier raid with up to 3 bosses. But not the expansion's final raid. Blizzard has been teasing Sylvanas' endgame, and Thunderbluff is mostly a distraction. The final tier will be directly linked to her ultimate plans, she won't be defeated without that reveal.

I cant really see another huge content patch like 8.2 coming in BfA. What would that even be? Ok, we know N'zoth is coming, but what kind of content(Besides a raid) would that create?

8.3 will be huge. I don't expect new landmasses, I think we will return to a familiar place and my bet is Quel'thalas. But there will be a lot of story in it. There's too much to wrap up in BfA.

My theory is that final patch is Death vs. Void, which the factions acting as proxies (Sylvanas serves Death and the Alliance... well, "the boy-king serves at the master's table"), with both powers having the same end goal (which I think it's the Sunwell because they need a great source of power for the final act). The patch questline is about the final battle in the war and the factions realising they have been manipulated, while the final raid is a Death vs. Void showdown, with bosses representing both.

Maybe one of the final bosses is a big Players vs. Sylvanas vs. Alleria ("When the arrow finds its mark, the last fetter will fall away") three-way showdown.

[EbaumsTipster]

8.3 will be huge. I don't expect new landmasses, I think we will return to a familiar place and my bet is Quel'thalas. But there will be a lot of story in it. There's too much to wrap up in BfA.

I think this is the only confirmed thing about 8.3: there is so little quest text in 8.2 that the writers have to be directed towards 8.3.

Even the war campaign step straight up just teleports you there without any additional questing.

[Sondrelk]

That's the thing. I'm pretty sure that Tyrande isn't in 8.2 because she's going to be spammed so hard in the future that people will be sick of her. It's kind of like how Khadgar goes missing after killing Gul'dan in Nighthold despite being a big character in that expansion, or how Velen only becomes a big character in a single patch: characters get shuffled around on a patch by patch basis while never hanging around entirely throughout, unless your name is Jaina Proudmoore (because Thrall/WC3 nostalgiabucks) or Nathanos (likely because Sylvanas replacement).

I would bet you good money that Tyrande is one of the biggest, or maybe THE biggest Alliance character in 8.3 maybe even moreso than Jaina or Anduin, just because of how badly she wants to kill Sylvanas. And because she's the biggest character in 8.3 she had to get the shaft in 8.2.

Of course if this had been an AZSHARA expansion instead of South Seas/N'zoth feat. Azshara too then maybe Tyrande would've been the Jaina of this expansion. But that's another reality entirely.

I suppose that is the way it is going, which is honestly quite a shame. Blizz missed out on some genuinely emotional storytelling here.

Having Tyrande see what happened to the old Elune temple.
Thalyssra talking about how Zin'azshari was wondrous beyond compare when it was still the capital of the united empire.
Lor'themar and Umbric taking time to talk about the choices taht led them to split apart.


Of course, i am only bitching about this because Blizz neglected to make my Waifu a raid boss.
I still have not gotten anywhere near over Nar'jira being shafted so thoroughly, especially when there is a whole subset of rares with the title "Champion of Azshara"
Blizz could ahve made the first boss in The Eternal Palace Na'jira, and slightly altered the dungeon journal page to explain why she has a different model, but no. Ignore one of the most interesting Naga from one of the best questlines of Cataclysm, in one of the msot unique zones, the one that built up the naga the best.

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I suppose Nazjatar should have had a lot of characters show up in a more through way, Ozumat for instance is relegated to what amount to a cameo, swimming outside the water in teh southern part of Nazjatar, instead of being in the raid as so much as a filler trash mob.

[DeicideUH]

I think this is the only confirmed thing about 8.3: there is so little quest text in 8.2 that the writers have to be directed towards 8.3.

Even the war campaign step straight up just teleports you there without any additional questing.

Yes. 8.2 has very little story and a lot of repetitive shores to distract us for a few months.

The big story patch will be 8.3.

[EbaumsTipster]

I suppose Nazjatar should have had a lot of characters show up in a more through way, Ozumat for instance is relegated to what amount to a cameo, swimming outside the water in teh southern part of Nazjatar, instead of being in the raid as so much as a filler trash mob.

Again, I think they have some kind of stigma in the office about reusing old parts of WoW for fanservice. They knew they COULD include Ozumat and Na'jira and they made a conscious decision not to. Your guess is as good as mine for why, but maybe there's some kind of inhouse thing going on where they don't want to reuse enemies even if it makes sense.

It's the same way that all of the Antorus enemies besides Varimathras and Aggramar were literal WHO's with no lore attached to them.

[Sondrelk]

Again, I think they have some kind of stigma in the office about reusing old parts of WoW for fanservice. They knew they COULD include Ozumat and Na'jira and they made a conscious decision not to. Your guess is as good as mine for why, but maybe there's some kind of inhouse thing going on where they don't want to reuse enemies even if it makes sense.

It's the same way that all of the Antorus enemies besides Varimathras and Aggramar were literal WHO's with no lore attached to them.

I don't actually think Blizz sat down and decided to go for bad choices, i just think they honestly did not think about it. The damning thing though is that the could change some stuff.
From my brief recollection of 7.2, Kil'jaeden got almost a complete rework of his fight at the beginning of the patch, i cannot imagine it would be difficult for Blizz to add Ozumat as a trash mob in the raid, or even as a mechanic in the Azshara fight.
Same with Nar'jira. They know that some people would like ot see Nar'jira, just remove a naga commander somewhere and replace with Nar'jira. Take the naga we kill in the beginning questline of Nazjatar, just make that Nar'jira. Sure it would be a disservice to the character, but it would still be better than outright ignoring a character that should be there.

I can understand why Blizz cannot completely reqord the zone to be more fitting with players expectations, or do massive changes to the game midway through an expansion. But i really despise narrative problems that can easily be fixed with simple lines of dialogue.
Nar'jira could be added as a raid boss if the first boss simply had her name changed and her description changed to mention that Nar'jira got an "ascended" form after her victory in Vashj'ir.
Tyrande not being in Nazjatar could be fixed by having Azshara laugh at Lor'themar for claiming the elves are united against Azshara when Tyrande is still running around killing them with a vengeance in Kalimdor.


Many problems in Nazjatar is merely half a day in a recording studio away from being removed, teh fact that they are not tells me that Blizz is either really jsut that busy working on 8.3/9.0. Or they simply don't care.
I really hope it is the former.

[Alga]

I don't actually think Blizz sat down and decided to go for bad choices, i just think they honestly did not think about it. The damning thing though is that the could change some stuff.
From my brief recollection of 7.2, Kil'jaeden got almost a complete rework of his fight at the beginning of the patch, i cannot imagine it would be difficult for Blizz to add Ozumat as a trash mob in the raid, or even as a mechanic in the Azshara fight.
Same with Nar'jira. They know that some people would like ot see Nar'jira, just remove a naga commander somewhere and replace with Nar'jira. Take the naga we kill in the beginning questline of Nazjatar, just make that Nar'jira. Sure it would be a disservice to the character, but it would still be better than outright ignoring a character that should be there.

I can understand why Blizz cannot completely reqord the zone to be more fitting with players expectations, or do massive changes to the game midway through an expansion. But i really despise narrative problems that can easily be fixed with simple lines of dialogue.
Nar'jira could be added as a raid boss if the first boss simply had her name changed and her description changed to mention that Nar'jira got an "ascended" form after her victory in Vashj'ir.
Tyrande not being in Nazjatar could be fixed by having Azshara laugh at Lor'themar for claiming the elves are united against Azshara when Tyrande is still running around killing them with a vengeance in Kalimdor.


Many problems in Nazjatar is merely half a day in a recording studio away from being removed, teh fact that they are not tells me that Blizz is either really jsut that busy working on 8.3/9.0. Or they simply don't care.
I really hope it is the former.

I think they really split their forces upon the future patches and the Devs already working on 9.0. I think Mechagon is a good example since it feels more fleshed out and with more love in that what it wants to represent. A daily hub with endless content and a bunch of funny unique Quests. While Nazjatar misses quite the uniqueness besides the looks.

But for imo the Patch still is fun to play, have to gear out my chars and visit the Seasons 3 stuff. If 8.2 will have just its around 3 months span I think the patch would have archieved its goals.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I doubt they don't care, I do wonder if they're unsure about Nelves and what to do after Teldrassil. I mean if anyone on the team hates Nelves, they shouldn't be writing on them, period. Again if thats a thing and I'm not gonna pretend I do know.

[EbaumsTipster]

At the end of the day I do like BFA, especially Kul Tiras and Mechagon which are some of my favorite zones, but as a whole it seems like filler and a reason for some subraces and heritage armor.

Not that this is inherently bad but it does feel like the bulk of development after the 8.0 zones were done was shifted to 9.0.