1. #8601
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I don't think we're going to pivot and do the faction war. Especially if what happens at the end of Eternal Palace is true. It would just feel really weird "Oh this really bad thing happened, nah lets not deal with it, go do another thing thats important but not as important as the BIG thing that just happened."
    It'll probably be faction themed moreso than a faction war expac. Though Tyrande is kind of around if they want to put in an Alliance boss that only Horde fights.

  2. #8602
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I don't think we're going to pivot and do the faction war. Especially if what happens at the end of Eternal Palace is true. It would just feel really weird "Oh this really bad thing happened, nah lets not deal with it, go do another thing thats important but not as important as the BIG thing that just happened."
    I'd be surprised if they didn't given the end of AEP pivots back to the Horde Civil War.
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  3. #8603
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I don't think we're going to pivot and do the faction war. Especially if what happens at the end of Eternal Palace is true. It would just feel really weird "Oh this really bad thing happened, nah lets not deal with it, go do another thing thats important but not as important as the BIG thing that just happened."
    It would feel even weirder to put the faction war on a literal hold for the rest of the expansion so we can suddenly go full old god. All the rebels against Sylvanas would just have to sit back and relax for a while, at least until N'zoth is defeated, after which everyone would turn back to Sylvanas and hopefully not realize that we just pivoted completely away from the faction war that is at the core of this story so we could hastily throw together a massive blowout of a fight against one of Azeroth's greatest enemies. After which we would hopefully manage to squeeze the end of the faction war into 8.3.5, or 9.0 will be faction war focused as well.

  4. #8604
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I don't think we're going to pivot and do the faction war.
    It's the freaking expansion theme.
    Whatever...

  5. #8605
    It's probably going to be just like Siege, with some old gods and some faction stuff.

  6. #8606
    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    It's probably going to be just like Siege, with some old gods and some faction stuff.
    So 100% just like Siege then

  7. #8607
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    So 100% just like Siege then
    "Nah it's way different. It's not in Orgrimmar this time, and instead of Orcs it's the Forsaken. And Sylvanas isn't captured at the end, she gets away. And not to the past, to Northrend. And not for the next expansion, she's there for 10.0." - Ion, when pressed on his "Sylvanas is not Garrosh 2.0" comment.
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  8. #8608
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    So 100% just like Siege then
    Doubt it, same way Nazjatar wasn't 100% Throne of Thunder despite being heavily themed after it with the characters and plot.

    If your parameters are "a warchief is a boss and theres old god stuff" then yes it's 100% Siege, though I doubt Horde players will fight Sylvanas.

  9. #8609
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    On the other hand maybe they pretty much flat out said where we're going to go in the last fight(Thunder Bluff). I'm probably wrong but..it'd be funny if they just put it there hiding in plain sight.
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  10. #8610
    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    Doubt it, same way Nazjatar wasn't 100% Throne of Thunder despite being heavily themed after it with the characters and plot.

    If your parameters are "a warchief is a boss and theres old god stuff" then yes it's 100% Siege, though I doubt Horde players will fight Sylvanas.
    I mean, obvisouly i am not trying to simplify it to being exactly the same, i just found it amusing how you mentioned it being different from siege because of Old god stuff.

    I don't think we ever got a confirmation that Sylvanas will not be a raid boss, could be wrong though. All i remember us getting as a post on how she would not die, which would be true of Garrosh as well.
    Overall quite curious where the story is going, there is definitely going to be SoO 2.0 in some way, though it could be a scenario with the raid something completely different from all we know.

    That being said, i would really love it if the final raid is set in an Alliance city for once, Stormwind would be nice, would finally give Blizz the excuse to actually give it proper updates beyond repairing stuff from Cata.


    Edit: I might have slightly misread your initial comment, if i did, feel free to ignore my comments.

  11. #8611
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    On the other hand maybe they pretty much flat out said where we're going to go in the last fight(Thunder Bluff). I'm probably wrong but..it'd be funny if they just put it there hiding in plain sight.
    I think it's a huge red herring honestly. We know Sylvanas wants to attack Stormwind and expected them to release Baine: it's wayyy more likely that she is seeing if Anduin will take the bait and send troops to support Thunder Bluff before attacking Stormwind.

    There's no real reason she'd attack Thunder Bluff.

  12. #8612
    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    I think it's a huge red herring honestly. We know Sylvanas wants to attack Stormwind and expected them to release Baine: it's wayyy more likely that she is seeing if Anduin will take the bait and send troops to support Thunder Bluff before attacking Stormwind.

    There's no real reason she'd attack Thunder Bluff.
    The only issue i see with Stormwind as a final raid is that it does not have the benefit of being the base of the villain, with all the amenities and boss encounters you would expect from that. We would either have to have much of the raid take place outside the city, maybe on Sylvanas' flagship, or have there be a location on Stormwind that Sylvanas can use.

    Either that or Sylvanas could simply destroy large parts of Stormwind and place her liutenants in the craters, though i fear that would mean the city will be destroyed for years again.

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    Stormwind vault is a nice place for raid encounters, all we would need is a reason for Sylvanas to be there.

  13. #8613
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The only issue i see with Stormwind as a final raid is that it does not have the benefit of being the base of the villain, with all the amenities and boss encounters you would expect from that. We would either have to have much of the raid take place outside the city, maybe on Sylvanas' flagship, or have there be a location on Stormwind that Sylvanas can use.

    Either that or Sylvanas could simply destroy large parts of Stormwind and place her liutenants in the craters, though i fear that would mean the city will be destroyed for years again.

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    Stormwind vault is a nice place for raid encounters, all we would need is a reason for Sylvanas to be there.
    And if they want to totally wreck the Alliance we even would get some Parts of Ironforge in the Raid, maybe when Anduin and the Alliance retreats.

  14. #8614
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The only issue i see with Stormwind as a final raid is that it does not have the benefit of being the base of the villain, with all the amenities and boss encounters you would expect from that. We would either have to have much of the raid take place outside the city, maybe on Sylvanas' flagship, or have there be a location on Stormwind that Sylvanas can use.

    Either that or Sylvanas could simply destroy large parts of Stormwind and place her liutenants in the craters, though i fear that would mean the city will be destroyed for years again.

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    Stormwind vault is a nice place for raid encounters, all we would need is a reason for Sylvanas to be there.
    I play mainly Alliance and am all for Stormwind getting completely nuked, if that means that we'll have better capital cities and maybe housing going forward. I've never really considered it a choice for the raid though because as you said it's a really bad and lowpoly environment, and how its built doesn't really suit a raid like how Orgrimmar's valleys did. There also isn't a big area underneath for the raid either, even if we do use the Vault. I WILL say though that if they go ahead and nuke Stormwind (and I'm guessing Orgrimmar too, either through the Bilgewater gun or blight) it would be the best way to show that factions are different moving forward.

    The reasons I mentioned above are mostly why I think it's Siege of Silvermoon instead (especially now that Lorthemar is busy and there are a bunch of Sunreaver loyalists introduced, as well as proximity to Calia) as well as the fact that redoing SMC and the surrounding area and putting it onto the map would be a HUGE draw for the patch. But I would be very much okay with nuked capital cities.

  15. #8615
    Quote Originally Posted by Alga View Post
    And if they want to totally wreck the Alliance we even would get some Parts of Ironforge in the Raid, maybe when Anduin and the Alliance retreats.
    There are a lot of interesting locations for raid bosses in SW we could explore if it ever came to that.

    We could start with a naval section consisting of maybe 2 bosses, then a short section of travelling from the docks along the canals. Entering either Stormwind Vault, the keep of deeprun tram ot Ironforge. Deeprun tram boss could be fun, would also give Blizz the chance to update it visually, maybe make it more convenient ot use, or if we are really dreaming, actually make it part of the overworld.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    I play mainly Alliance and am all for Stormwind getting completely nuked, if that means that we'll have better capital cities and maybe housing going forward. I've never really considered it a choice for the raid though because as you said it's a really bad and lowpoly environment, and how its built doesn't really suit a raid like how Orgrimmar's valleys did. There also isn't a big area underneath for the raid either, even if we do use the Vault. I WILL say though that if they go ahead and nuke Stormwind (and I'm guessing Orgrimmar too, either through the Bilgewater gun or blight) it would be the best way to show that factions are different moving forward.

    The reasons I mentioned above are mostly why I think it's Siege of Silvermoon instead (especially now that Lorthemar is busy and there are a bunch of Sunreaver loyalists introduced, as well as proximity to Calia) as well as the fact that redoing SMC and the surrounding area and putting it onto the map would be a HUGE draw for the patch. But I would be very much okay with nuked capital cities.
    I wouldnt say that Stormwind is a bad idea for a city unlie Orgrimmar, both are equally unsuitable for raids on a surface level. Orgrimmar did afterall have a section entirely in the Vale of Eternal blossoms, and only 3 of the bosses actually took place in the normal Orgrimmar, the rest were in the custom built Undercroft.

    Stormwind would in theory work the same way, what makes it less suitable than Orgrimmar was though is that for Orgrimmar we could easily accept that Garrosh had fortified it and put the bosses in places suited for their abilities, this would be harder to do for Stormwind unless the raid storyline is that Sylvanas captures and fortifies it before the raid.

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    Siege of Silvermoon is a much better idea indeed, especially if you take advantage of the previously setup Anduin/Arthas parallels. You coudl have the raid start in the area where the undead were in the Ghostlands, have the raid move north through the dead scar, walk through the city and finally end up at the Isle of Quel'danas, would probablyt need a whole lot of teleports or other quick ways of moving, but still. Would be a cool concept ot have Anduin continue his Arthas as a good guy rendition by copying his iconic march of Silvermoon, except to defeat the evil undead, instead of becoming the evil undead.

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    Siege of Silvermoon would set a really bad tone as it would be the 3rd horde city made raid, and the second in this expansion. Whereas Alliance has had anothing like that except the dungeons set in Alliance cities.

  16. #8616
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Siege of Silvermoon is a much better idea indeed, especially if you take advantage of the previously setup Anduin/Arthas parallels. You coudl have the raid start in the area where the undead were in the Ghostlands, have the raid move north through the dead scar, walk through the city and finally end up at the Isle of Quel'danas, would probablyt need a whole lot of teleports or other quick ways of moving, but still. Would be a cool concept ot have Anduin continue his Arthas as a good guy rendition by copying his iconic march of Silvermoon, except to defeat the evil undead, instead of becoming the evil undead.

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    Siege of Silvermoon would set a really bad tone as it would be the 3rd horde city made raid, and the second in this expansion. Whereas Alliance has had anothing like that except the dungeons set in Alliance cities.
    Yeah it's a really cool idea for an area/raid that most likely won't happen because, as you said, IT'S NOT FAIIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Only way to pair it to curb whining would be an Azuremyst warfront where the Draenei lose, but still, it's not a capital city so people would just march on Blizz HQ.
    Last edited by EbaumsTipster; 2019-07-01 at 10:35 PM.

  17. #8617
    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    Yeah it's a really cool idea for an area/raid that most likely won't happen because, as you said, IT'S NOT FAIIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Pretty much.

    I have heard good arguments for Teldrassil being the final raid though. With it being burned down already there is no changes to preexisting areas needed, while Sylvanas ressurecting the dead Nelves and possibly other creatures there would make for interesting boss fights. Would also give some level of catharsis for Nelves, as they could finally get proper revenge for Teldrassil.
    This would be even less likely though, given how Teldrassil seems ot be actively ignored in the story.

  18. #8618
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    I mean going back to Teldrassil would IMO be the better options being discussed here. Is it kinda a kicking NElves in the shin again? Kinda, but in a way you'd be fighting the one who caused it all and those that blindly followed her, so yeah go kill them. Faction war between two sides with a playerbase....


    Yeah it isn't easy. Maybe in an ideal world where people aren't crazy rageheads....it could work. /shrug


    I still partly want a raid inside Sargeras's gorribal >.>
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  19. #8619
    I think people are so convinced by what that one dumbass dev said about Night Elves having gotten revenge, taking that like that their story is completely over, that they'd be ecstatic that Tyrande would be the one who lays the final blows on Sylvanas.

    Of course they'd then freak the fuck out when she doesn't actually die.

  20. #8620
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I mean going back to Teldrassil would IMO be the better options being discussed here. Is it kinda a kicking NElves in the shin again? Kinda, but in a way you'd be fighting the one who caused it all and those that blindly followed her, so yeah go kill them. Faction war between two sides with a playerbase....


    Yeah it isn't easy. Maybe in an ideal world where people aren't crazy rageheads....it could work. /shrug


    I still partly want a raid inside Sargeras's gorribal >.>
    The problem is that Blizz has a problem with creating faction balanced content, it always comes across like one side is beign heavily favored.

    8.2 is a good example of "equal" content. Horde allies are everywhere in Nazjatar, they are shown patrolling more frequently, there are unique mini events happening with their characters across all of Nazjatar, normally this would come across as heavily Horde-favored, but Alliance gets equality by having their allies be more fleshed out, and having the Ankoan possess more of an identity, meaning that despite Horde and Alliance experience in Nazjatar being extrmely dissimilar, it is still "equal"

    SoO often gets a lot of flack for being either Horde centered (Horde story) Or Alliance centered (Alliance gets to attack Orgrimmar)
    What some people don't seem ot realize is that it was never the raid itself that was centered on a specific faction, it was the questline preceding it, where Horde got all teh attention, with Alliance getting the table scraps, with nothing notable to balance it out.

    Similarly, a raid on an Alliance city would in a vacuum be equal. Alliance gets updates to a city, and focus on their territory. Horde gets to attack an Alliance city canonically.


    That being said, i would have to agree with the complainers if the final raid of BfA is another horde city, because beyond just giving way too much focus on the Hordes problems, and giving their cities a lot of attention, it would also be extremely boring.

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    Just out of curiosity though. What do you envision a raid inside Gorribal would be like?
    I can see one being in Silihus, with Gorribal being a part of it, but cirtue of it being pretty hard to miss, i just wonder what you envision the theme of the raid being, the bosses and such.

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