1. #8921
    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    Doubt it, same way Nazjatar wasn't 100% Throne of Thunder despite being heavily themed after it with the characters and plot.

    If your parameters are "a warchief is a boss and theres old god stuff" then yes it's 100% Siege, though I doubt Horde players will fight Sylvanas.
    I mean, obvisouly i am not trying to simplify it to being exactly the same, i just found it amusing how you mentioned it being different from siege because of Old god stuff.

    I don't think we ever got a confirmation that Sylvanas will not be a raid boss, could be wrong though. All i remember us getting as a post on how she would not die, which would be true of Garrosh as well.
    Overall quite curious where the story is going, there is definitely going to be SoO 2.0 in some way, though it could be a scenario with the raid something completely different from all we know.

    That being said, i would really love it if the final raid is set in an Alliance city for once, Stormwind would be nice, would finally give Blizz the excuse to actually give it proper updates beyond repairing stuff from Cata.


    Edit: I might have slightly misread your initial comment, if i did, feel free to ignore my comments.

  2. #8922
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    On the other hand maybe they pretty much flat out said where we're going to go in the last fight(Thunder Bluff). I'm probably wrong but..it'd be funny if they just put it there hiding in plain sight.
    I think it's a huge red herring honestly. We know Sylvanas wants to attack Stormwind and expected them to release Baine: it's wayyy more likely that she is seeing if Anduin will take the bait and send troops to support Thunder Bluff before attacking Stormwind.

    There's no real reason she'd attack Thunder Bluff.

  3. #8923
    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    I think it's a huge red herring honestly. We know Sylvanas wants to attack Stormwind and expected them to release Baine: it's wayyy more likely that she is seeing if Anduin will take the bait and send troops to support Thunder Bluff before attacking Stormwind.

    There's no real reason she'd attack Thunder Bluff.
    The only issue i see with Stormwind as a final raid is that it does not have the benefit of being the base of the villain, with all the amenities and boss encounters you would expect from that. We would either have to have much of the raid take place outside the city, maybe on Sylvanas' flagship, or have there be a location on Stormwind that Sylvanas can use.

    Either that or Sylvanas could simply destroy large parts of Stormwind and place her liutenants in the craters, though i fear that would mean the city will be destroyed for years again.

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    Stormwind vault is a nice place for raid encounters, all we would need is a reason for Sylvanas to be there.

  4. #8924
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The only issue i see with Stormwind as a final raid is that it does not have the benefit of being the base of the villain, with all the amenities and boss encounters you would expect from that. We would either have to have much of the raid take place outside the city, maybe on Sylvanas' flagship, or have there be a location on Stormwind that Sylvanas can use.

    Either that or Sylvanas could simply destroy large parts of Stormwind and place her liutenants in the craters, though i fear that would mean the city will be destroyed for years again.

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    Stormwind vault is a nice place for raid encounters, all we would need is a reason for Sylvanas to be there.
    And if they want to totally wreck the Alliance we even would get some Parts of Ironforge in the Raid, maybe when Anduin and the Alliance retreats.

  5. #8925
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The only issue i see with Stormwind as a final raid is that it does not have the benefit of being the base of the villain, with all the amenities and boss encounters you would expect from that. We would either have to have much of the raid take place outside the city, maybe on Sylvanas' flagship, or have there be a location on Stormwind that Sylvanas can use.

    Either that or Sylvanas could simply destroy large parts of Stormwind and place her liutenants in the craters, though i fear that would mean the city will be destroyed for years again.

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    Stormwind vault is a nice place for raid encounters, all we would need is a reason for Sylvanas to be there.
    I play mainly Alliance and am all for Stormwind getting completely nuked, if that means that we'll have better capital cities and maybe housing going forward. I've never really considered it a choice for the raid though because as you said it's a really bad and lowpoly environment, and how its built doesn't really suit a raid like how Orgrimmar's valleys did. There also isn't a big area underneath for the raid either, even if we do use the Vault. I WILL say though that if they go ahead and nuke Stormwind (and I'm guessing Orgrimmar too, either through the Bilgewater gun or blight) it would be the best way to show that factions are different moving forward.

    The reasons I mentioned above are mostly why I think it's Siege of Silvermoon instead (especially now that Lorthemar is busy and there are a bunch of Sunreaver loyalists introduced, as well as proximity to Calia) as well as the fact that redoing SMC and the surrounding area and putting it onto the map would be a HUGE draw for the patch. But I would be very much okay with nuked capital cities.

  6. #8926
    Quote Originally Posted by Alga View Post
    And if they want to totally wreck the Alliance we even would get some Parts of Ironforge in the Raid, maybe when Anduin and the Alliance retreats.
    There are a lot of interesting locations for raid bosses in SW we could explore if it ever came to that.

    We could start with a naval section consisting of maybe 2 bosses, then a short section of travelling from the docks along the canals. Entering either Stormwind Vault, the keep of deeprun tram ot Ironforge. Deeprun tram boss could be fun, would also give Blizz the chance to update it visually, maybe make it more convenient ot use, or if we are really dreaming, actually make it part of the overworld.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    I play mainly Alliance and am all for Stormwind getting completely nuked, if that means that we'll have better capital cities and maybe housing going forward. I've never really considered it a choice for the raid though because as you said it's a really bad and lowpoly environment, and how its built doesn't really suit a raid like how Orgrimmar's valleys did. There also isn't a big area underneath for the raid either, even if we do use the Vault. I WILL say though that if they go ahead and nuke Stormwind (and I'm guessing Orgrimmar too, either through the Bilgewater gun or blight) it would be the best way to show that factions are different moving forward.

    The reasons I mentioned above are mostly why I think it's Siege of Silvermoon instead (especially now that Lorthemar is busy and there are a bunch of Sunreaver loyalists introduced, as well as proximity to Calia) as well as the fact that redoing SMC and the surrounding area and putting it onto the map would be a HUGE draw for the patch. But I would be very much okay with nuked capital cities.
    I wouldnt say that Stormwind is a bad idea for a city unlie Orgrimmar, both are equally unsuitable for raids on a surface level. Orgrimmar did afterall have a section entirely in the Vale of Eternal blossoms, and only 3 of the bosses actually took place in the normal Orgrimmar, the rest were in the custom built Undercroft.

    Stormwind would in theory work the same way, what makes it less suitable than Orgrimmar was though is that for Orgrimmar we could easily accept that Garrosh had fortified it and put the bosses in places suited for their abilities, this would be harder to do for Stormwind unless the raid storyline is that Sylvanas captures and fortifies it before the raid.

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    Siege of Silvermoon is a much better idea indeed, especially if you take advantage of the previously setup Anduin/Arthas parallels. You coudl have the raid start in the area where the undead were in the Ghostlands, have the raid move north through the dead scar, walk through the city and finally end up at the Isle of Quel'danas, would probablyt need a whole lot of teleports or other quick ways of moving, but still. Would be a cool concept ot have Anduin continue his Arthas as a good guy rendition by copying his iconic march of Silvermoon, except to defeat the evil undead, instead of becoming the evil undead.

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    Siege of Silvermoon would set a really bad tone as it would be the 3rd horde city made raid, and the second in this expansion. Whereas Alliance has had anothing like that except the dungeons set in Alliance cities.

  7. #8927
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Siege of Silvermoon is a much better idea indeed, especially if you take advantage of the previously setup Anduin/Arthas parallels. You coudl have the raid start in the area where the undead were in the Ghostlands, have the raid move north through the dead scar, walk through the city and finally end up at the Isle of Quel'danas, would probablyt need a whole lot of teleports or other quick ways of moving, but still. Would be a cool concept ot have Anduin continue his Arthas as a good guy rendition by copying his iconic march of Silvermoon, except to defeat the evil undead, instead of becoming the evil undead.

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    Siege of Silvermoon would set a really bad tone as it would be the 3rd horde city made raid, and the second in this expansion. Whereas Alliance has had anothing like that except the dungeons set in Alliance cities.
    Yeah it's a really cool idea for an area/raid that most likely won't happen because, as you said, IT'S NOT FAIIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Only way to pair it to curb whining would be an Azuremyst warfront where the Draenei lose, but still, it's not a capital city so people would just march on Blizz HQ.
    Last edited by EbaumsTipster; 2019-07-01 at 10:35 PM.

  8. #8928
    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    Yeah it's a really cool idea for an area/raid that most likely won't happen because, as you said, IT'S NOT FAIIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Pretty much.

    I have heard good arguments for Teldrassil being the final raid though. With it being burned down already there is no changes to preexisting areas needed, while Sylvanas ressurecting the dead Nelves and possibly other creatures there would make for interesting boss fights. Would also give some level of catharsis for Nelves, as they could finally get proper revenge for Teldrassil.
    This would be even less likely though, given how Teldrassil seems ot be actively ignored in the story.

  9. #8929
    The Undying Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    I mean going back to Teldrassil would IMO be the better options being discussed here. Is it kinda a kicking NElves in the shin again? Kinda, but in a way you'd be fighting the one who caused it all and those that blindly followed her, so yeah go kill them. Faction war between two sides with a playerbase....


    Yeah it isn't easy. Maybe in an ideal world where people aren't crazy rageheads....it could work. /shrug


    I still partly want a raid inside Sargeras's gorribal >.>
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  10. #8930
    I think people are so convinced by what that one dumbass dev said about Night Elves having gotten revenge, taking that like that their story is completely over, that they'd be ecstatic that Tyrande would be the one who lays the final blows on Sylvanas.

    Of course they'd then freak the fuck out when she doesn't actually die.

  11. #8931
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I mean going back to Teldrassil would IMO be the better options being discussed here. Is it kinda a kicking NElves in the shin again? Kinda, but in a way you'd be fighting the one who caused it all and those that blindly followed her, so yeah go kill them. Faction war between two sides with a playerbase....


    Yeah it isn't easy. Maybe in an ideal world where people aren't crazy rageheads....it could work. /shrug


    I still partly want a raid inside Sargeras's gorribal >.>
    The problem is that Blizz has a problem with creating faction balanced content, it always comes across like one side is beign heavily favored.

    8.2 is a good example of "equal" content. Horde allies are everywhere in Nazjatar, they are shown patrolling more frequently, there are unique mini events happening with their characters across all of Nazjatar, normally this would come across as heavily Horde-favored, but Alliance gets equality by having their allies be more fleshed out, and having the Ankoan possess more of an identity, meaning that despite Horde and Alliance experience in Nazjatar being extrmely dissimilar, it is still "equal"

    SoO often gets a lot of flack for being either Horde centered (Horde story) Or Alliance centered (Alliance gets to attack Orgrimmar)
    What some people don't seem ot realize is that it was never the raid itself that was centered on a specific faction, it was the questline preceding it, where Horde got all teh attention, with Alliance getting the table scraps, with nothing notable to balance it out.

    Similarly, a raid on an Alliance city would in a vacuum be equal. Alliance gets updates to a city, and focus on their territory. Horde gets to attack an Alliance city canonically.


    That being said, i would have to agree with the complainers if the final raid of BfA is another horde city, because beyond just giving way too much focus on the Hordes problems, and giving their cities a lot of attention, it would also be extremely boring.

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    Just out of curiosity though. What do you envision a raid inside Gorribal would be like?
    I can see one being in Silihus, with Gorribal being a part of it, but cirtue of it being pretty hard to miss, i just wonder what you envision the theme of the raid being, the bosses and such.

  12. #8932
    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    You're right about the Draenei irrelevance and armor, but you forgot that warfronts have thematic armor for both sides. The only ones missing besides Draenei are Darkspear and Pandas and I'm willing to bet it's not a Panda warfront.

    I think it's going to be Draenei vs Darkspear so the Darkspear can FINALLY get some HD armor and the Draenei can have a reason they get kicked out of their house/side with the Nelves/maybe get angry at Anduin. Maybe Pandas will get heritage that is mostly the same but slightly different for each side in a quest in 8.3, but Darkspear absolutely should be a big part of a warfront.
    Every warfront has more than one race featured, but only one theme for armor, so I think we may see Draenei vs. Darkspear, but with mag'har as the trolls' partners, while the draenei have the lightforged fighting with them.
    Whatever...

  13. #8933
    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    I think people are so convinced by what that one dumbass dev said about Night Elves having gotten revenge, taking that like that their story is completely over, that they'd be ecstatic that Tyrande would be the one who lays the final blows on Sylvanas.

    Of course they'd then freak the fuck out when she doesn't actually die.
    I really, really want to give Blizz the benefit of the doubt on that one. I honestly really do. But BfA has shown time and time again that Blizz will take seemingly any opportunity given to shit on the Nelves. First there was the aftermath of the burning where Blizz decided to release the Saurfang cinematic to placate the Horde, because god forbid that the Nelves could be thrown a bone to show that they would not go out of this empty-handed. That honor was given to the faction that just commited genocide.

    Then there was the quests surrounding the Warfront, where the Nelves, masters of guerilla tacitcs, struggle to hold a piece of land they now have all the means to protect. Not to mention the entire controversy surrounding Nelves immediately accepting being ressurected in service of Sylvanas. They could have made it more ambigous by simply changing the wording from "No willing souls", to "No suitable souls" or simply something as elegant as "The souls resisted".
    The fact that there had to be outrage on the forums just to change Tyrande actually being competent should tell you everything.

    When Blizz has a blue post stating that Tyrande got her revenge, that did not come across like a dumb comment prone to being misread, it came across like the devs genuinely not understanding that Nelf players still had not gotten closure for their story. The fact that this comment came just as people realized that Nazjatar would not have Tyrande show up, or even being mentioned just added fuel to the fire.

  14. #8934
    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    Every warfront has more than one race featured, but only one theme for armor, so I think we may see Draenei vs. Darkspear, but with mag'har as the trolls' partners, while the draenei have the lightforged fighting with them.
    THAT I could see, it would be a great pair off between the two even if the Darkspear don't have a huge history with the Draenei. I feel like using the Mag'har (Iron Horde) in the patch that will likely be themed around Siege of Orgrimmar would be a smart thematic touch and the LFD thing would have a lot of payoff.

    Most importantly, Darkspear would have a way to GET to Azuremyst, those nice carriers.

  15. #8935
    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    THAT I could see, it would be a great pair off between the two even if the Darkspear don't have a huge history with the Draenei. I feel like using the Mag'har (Iron Horde) in the patch that will likely be themed around Siege of Orgrimmar would be a smart thematic touch and the LFD thing would have a lot of payoff.

    Most importantly, Darkspear would have a way to GET to Azuremyst, those nice carriers.
    And looking on the reaction of Gey'rah after Baine got arrested, she seems to be a totally Sylvanas Loyalist. I think even a burning of Thunderbluff woudlnt change something with her. Also it would allow us to enjoy some funny Thrall vs Gey'rah fighting.

    While mentioning the Loyalists.. I kinda got the feeling of the one Orc guarding Baine is a representation of the Sylvanas loyal playerbase and even the Horde in general, that there still is a hard core of following Horde folks.

  16. #8936
    The Undying Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Just out of curiosity though. What do you envision a raid inside Gorribal would be like?
    I can see one being in Silihus, with Gorribal being a part of it, but cirtue of it being pretty hard to miss, i just wonder what you envision the theme of the raid being, the bosses and such.
    For Gorribal as a raid, it would obviously have demons obviously, Sargeras or at least his voice somehow being able to connect with his weapon talk to us throughout the raid and when we meet a boss/end a boss. We'd see demons(More red variations of the demons we're used to) and probably a mix between demon and Azerite demonic monsters. The end boss in this theoretical raid would be an echo of Sargeras(Which is sorta what I wondered about for Legion) not full strength, just him amusing us, it doesn't have to end in us winning.

    Best thing I can think of is Gorribal eventually would be purged/destroyed by some means I mean this Fantasy so....use your imagination. The "story" of the place is mostly Sargeras(Even though he's sealed away in the Seat of the Pantheon, his consciousness is still in the Blade but only just a bit) being very vexed by us. We interfere with his way and now left the universe to darkness and we don't know who and what we helped.


    Very basic idea but doesn't mesh well in BFA like at all. It's more like a prologue to anything related to the Void and the cosmic horror(Old Gods) side of the game.


    When Blizz has a blue post stating that Tyrande got her revenge, that did not come across like a dumb comment prone to being misread, it came across like the devs genuinely not understanding that Nelf players still had not gotten closure for their story. The fact that this comment came just as people realized that Nazjatar would not have Tyrande show up, or even being mentioned just added fuel to the fire.
    I've already said it but I didn't really believe the Nelves got vengeance for Teldrassil, they just sorta fought back(In a bit forced way, Anduin claiming lack of troops is bullshit, like the series ever cared about logistics). I think it was Bellular who sorta hinted or implied that Tyrande might be super relevant soon and not 8.3 soon I mean 9.0 soon. In a "Oh my gosh" sorta way not the way.........some would want.
    Last edited by Aeluron Lightsong; 2019-07-01 at 11:23 PM.
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  17. #8937
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    For Gorribal as a raid, it would obviously have demons obviously, Sargeras or at least his voice somehow being able to connect with his weapon talk to us throughout the raid and when we meet a boss/end a boss. We'd see demons(More red variations of the demons we're used to) and probably a mix between demon and Azerite demonic monsters. The end boss in this theoretical raid would be an echo of Sargeras(Which is sorta what I wondered about for Legion) not full strength, just him amusing us, it doesn't have to end in us winning.

    Best thing I can think of is Gorribal eventually would be purged/destroyed by some means I mean this Fantasy so....use your imagination. The "story" of the place is mostly Sargeras(Even though he's sealed away in the Seat of the Pantheon, his consciousness is still in the Blade but only just a bit) being very vexed by us. We interfere with his way and now left the universe to darkness and we don't know who and what we helped.


    Very basic idea but doesn't mesh well in BFA like at all. It's more like a prologue to anything related to the Void and the cosmic horror(Old Gods) side of the game.
    Personally i always hoped that 7.3.5 would have a mini-raid or a dungeon in Gorribal basically like you explained here. Sadly that never came to pass though, and i assume that the sword is inert now, but it is hard to tell when talking about planet sized swords used by space-satan.

  18. #8938
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    I've already said it but I didn't really believe the Nelves got vengeance for Teldrassil, they just sorta fought back(In a bit forced way, Anduin claiming lack of troops is bullshit, like the series ever cared about logistics). I think it was Bellular who sorta hinted or implied that Tyrande might be super relevant soon and not 8.3 soon I mean 9.0 soon. In a "Oh my gosh" sorta way not the way.........some would want.
    Yeah I don't want to get into a whole thing about Blizzard and Nelves, and I do think Tyrande should've been in Azshara, but there's no chance in hell her story versus Sylvanas is over. She is the real rival for Sylvanas, not Anduin, (Life vs Death) and is the one with the OP power levels that can beam struggle her in the middle of Stormwind or Teldrassil stump or whatever.

    I do think she's also the one major leader who will reject any peace treaty completely and may kickstart the plot of 9.0 if she freaks out at any unification attempt.

  19. #8939
    The Lightbringer Pennem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    Yeah I don't want to get into a whole thing about Blizzard and Nelves, and I do think Tyrande should've been in Azshara, but there's no chance in hell her story versus Sylvanas is over. She is the real rival for Sylvanas, not Anduin, (Life vs Death) and is the one with the OP power levels that can beam struggle her in the middle of Stormwind or Teldrassil stump or whatever.

    I do think she's also the one major leader who will reject any peace treaty completely and may kickstart the plot of 9.0 if she freaks out at any unification attempt.
    Crazy ass theory that probably won’t happen but would be cool af: Sylvanas at the end will look like she’s about to win but then in comes Tyrande and Malfurion with all the NEs who’ve been pissed this whole expansion, ENDGAME STYLE, and just FUCK. SHIT. UP.

    Yeet

  20. #8940
    The Undying Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    Crazy ass theory that probably won’t happen but would be cool af: Sylvanas at the end will look like she’s about to win but then in comes Tyrande and Malfurion with all the NEs who’ve been pissed this whole expansion, ENDGAME STYLE, and just FUCK. SHIT. UP.

    Yeet
    If Metzen didn't retire, I'd say it would be plausible.
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