1. #10601
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    The Lor'themar thing is over. It was a temporary ceasefire to defeat Azshara and Azshara is defeated. She isn't going to go move in with the Blood Elves.
    Azshara is defeated, but N'zoth is out of his prison. It's more than likely that the Horde and the Alliance will have to team up - i.e. they will need some characters to bridge the gap between the factions and advocate for working together. And Jaina right now is the best Alliance to do that.

    Not only is she the only big Alliance character that has along with us been baited by Azshara into helping her release N'zoth and actually saw the Old God go free, but she has also recently successfully worked with Baine, Thrall, Saurfang, Lor'themar and Thalyssra. Out of all the Alliance characters she has the most reasons to go: "hey, let's drop this war BS for now and work with the Horde, because there's an angry tentacle god after us".

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    The Baine storyline is exactly what we are talking about, her fighting Sylvanas and potentially dying.
    I'm not saying it won't happen - sure, Jaina can die fighting Sylvanas, but there's also a possibility that Sylvanas won't get killed at the end of this expansion and that sooner or later she will get some sort of a redemption/justification arc, in which case having Jaina around could be useful.
    Last edited by Sarethion; 2019-08-01 at 07:33 AM.

  2. #10602
    @Sarethion That’s indeed true. If Blizzard would spoiler less it’d be much better. At least the Teldrassil stuff would have been.

    @Hitei Jaina had a massive presence this expansion yet I don’t think she’s done. She’s the most prominent Alliance character and is very present with the Horde as well. Anduin is just a boring lame ass child in comparison. If anyone should die it’s Anduin which eventually turns the peaceful Alliance into a full revenge and aggressive faction which I would totally dig with Tyrande and Genn. Get rid of Anduin, he’s the one who’s holding Alliance back. Jaina could take his place as some kind of calming character in the end. I know it won’t happen and rather Jaina dies than poster boy yet I’d prefer a new Alliance that is fierce, aggressive and in some parts... ruthless. Enough of the appeasement bs Anduin is forcing.
    Last edited by Nyel; 2019-08-01 at 07:48 AM.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  3. #10603
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarethion View Post
    Azshara is defeated, but N'zoth is out of his prison. It's more than likely that the Horde and the Alliance will have to team up - i.e. they will need some characters to bridge the gap between the factions and advocate for working together. And Jaina right now is the best Alliance to do that.

    Not only is she the only big Alliance character that has along with us been baited by Azshara into helping her release N'zoth and actually saw the Old God go free, but she has also recently successfully worked with Baine, Thrall, Saurfang, Lor'themar and Thalyssra. Out of all the Alliance characters she has the most reasons to go: "hey, let's drop this war BS for now and work with the Horde, because there's an angry tentacle god after us".


    I'm not saying it won't happen - sure, Jaina can die fighting Sylvanas, but there's also a possibility that Sylvanas won't get killed at the end of this expansion and that sooner or later she will get some sort of a redemption/justification arc, in which case having Jaina around could be useful.
    I just don't think that's true. Jaina only even goes to Orgrimmar because of a personal request by Valeera, who is literally acting as a go between because she's a Blood Elf, at the request of Anduin, who is Baine's close friend. Just because Jaina is chill now doesn't make her a good go-between. We saw how that worked out with the Blood Elves in Orgrimmar. Jaina is not well liked.

    In addition to Anduin, Baine, Saurfang, and Thrall, you have Magni, Brann, Faol and Calia, Voss was completely neutral an expansion ago, what is Jaina bringing to the table?

    The problem is that Jaina isn't needed for a Sylvanas arc. That is Anduin, Saurfang and Calia's story. Jaina has basically just been around to help Anduin as far as the Sylvanas plot goes. All she's "useful" for is being an especially powerful mage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    [MENTION=1102123]@Hitei Jaina had a massive presence this expansion yet I don’t think she’s done. She’s the most prominent Alliance character and is very present with the Horde as well. Anduin is just a boring lame ass child in comparison. If anyone should die it’s Anduin which eventually turns the peaceful Alliance into a full revenge and aggressive faction which I would totally dig with Tyrande and Genn. Get rid of Anduin, he’s the one who’s holding Alliance back. Jaina could take his place as some kind of calming character in the end. I know it won’t happen and rather Jaina dies than poster boy yet I’d prefer a new Alliance that is fierce, aggressive and in some parts... ruthless. Enough of the appeasement bs Anduin is forcing.
    We already know that the war isn't going to double down past this expansion. One way or the other there's going to be some form of resolution, be that no factions, or one faction, or a faction decisively losing you aren't going to see Anduin die to reignite a war that's leading to a conclusion. If he dies it will be him dying along someone else: a third party or a dethroned Sylvanas. Not him dying to Horde.

  4. #10604
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    You are literally just describing expansions.

    a ghost tower > Naga and Blood Elves> Randomly forest trolls > into the past to fight the Legion for no real reason > Demons
    Naxx, an undead fortress > completely unrelated titan complex > a dumb medieval tournament for no real reason > Undead
    A mogu vault > The unrelated mantid and sha > trolls and a different group of mogu > Orcs
    Ogres > Unrelated Orcs > Demon Orcs
    Old god forces in the Emerald Dream > A bunch of completely unrelated mana addicted elves > Demons > Bigger Demons

    Like did you even think about what you were claiming? The only expansion with even remotely continuous raid instances is Cata, because all the things you fight are working together on the side of the twilight forces. Are you really going to sit here and pretend BfA is a clusterfuck because Uldir's primary storyline is Horde when there is literally no reason in the world why Alliance should ever be in Zul'Aman, or Horde in Kara, or any reason at all to keep picking a fight with Ogres in the middle of a campaign against the Iron Horde? We won't even touch TotGC.


    And this is exactly what I mean. Clearly you absolutely do not read quests if you are having any sort of trouble understanding what is going on. Nothing outside of the game does anything more than expand upon what is told in game. You don't need to know about the desolate council, Anduin's worries, or who saffy is to see that Azerite is a powerful substance and Sylvanas is taking the opportunity to strike against the Alliance in the wake of the war against the Legion. If you read Before the Storm you know more about saffy, if you didn't she is just one of the couple of gnomes you take with you to mechagon. If you read Elegy and A Good War, you know more about how exactly Delaryn came to die at Darkshore, if you didn't she is the night elf captain who died defending darkshore.

    You are having trouble understanding because you don't read quest text. Nothing in game is dependent on you reading anything else.


    I'm not. I just realize it's fine, and quite good compared to most of the other expansions.


    The player base is full of retards. Just because people are so dumb they can't understand basic shit like "this country wants land and resources and so is attacking another vulnerable country", or "this monarch does not give a shit about their subjects and will sacrifice them for strategic gain", or "these two pairs of enemy soldiers are stuck someplace dangerous and briefly calling a ceasefire" doesn't make the story badly written. It makes those people fucking dumb.
    I agree with you 100%!

  5. #10605
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    8.2.5 tomorrow or we riot.
    Why not today ?

  6. #10606
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Shocking? The only shocking story thing in BfA is how bad the story is. Not even the burning of Teldrassil has been shocking.

    What shocking thing could happen? Sylvanas dies? She’ll attack Thunder Bluff or Stormwind? It’s all pretty pointless. Shocking would be something like Sylvanas kills Anduin or Jaina but that’s never going to happen.
    not shocking because of surprise, but because of bullshit that i will make people rly angry and storm the foruns, just like the warbringers Sylvanus

  7. #10607
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    We already know that the war isn't going to double down past this expansion. One way or the other there's going to be some form of resolution, be that no factions, or one faction, or a faction decisively losing you aren't going to see Anduin die to reignite a war that's leading to a conclusion. If he dies it will be him dying along someone else: a third party or a dethroned Sylvanas. Not him dying to Horde.
    I know that and that’s the reason why this war was so silly and meaningless. Even if Jaina dies (and Sylvanas most likely not) why would this end in peace? It doesn’t make sense. The war is at its peak right now (or rather not) because doubling down on the war in 8.2.5 would need some kind of conclusion in 8.3 because I don’t think the war will carry over into 9.0.

    So... was 8.1 with BoD the peak? Or what was it? Must have missed that. There’s almost no lasting impression of the war especially because nobody important died. Yet we’re at the final stage of the so called war.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  8. #10608
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    I know that and that’s the reason why this war was so silly and meaningless. Even if Jaina dies (and Sylvanas most likely not) why would this end in peace? It doesn’t make sense. The war is at its peak right now (or rather not) because doubling down on the war in 8.2.5 would need some kind of conclusion in 8.3 because I don’t think the war will carry over into 9.0.

    So... was 8.1 with BoD the peak? Or what was it? Must have missed that. There’s almost no lasting impression of the war especially because nobody important died. Yet we’re at the final stage of the so called war.
    No idea how you can come to that conclusion. The war isn't over and Undercity is gone, Tirisfal glades is a plagued and destroyed mess, Teldrassil was burned down, with the Night Elves now what you might call endangered and refugees. Thunderbluff risks destruction, Dazar'alor was sacked and the Zandalari king slain.

    The intro to this expansion alone has left more of an impact than literally any event besides the Cataclysm. Complain about every other not-Cata expansion being meaningless because nothing happens before you complain about BfA's war not having a lasting impression.

  9. #10609
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Thunderbluff risks destruction,
    Why, because a twat that spent last few years on a different world says so?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    The intro to this expansion alone has left more of an impact than literally any event besides the Cataclysm. Complain about every other not-Cata expansion being meaningless because nothing happens before you complain about BfA's war not having a lasting impression.
    We can still go back in time to see it how it was before, impact my ass, this limp dicked company cannot commit.

  10. #10610
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    We can still go back in time to see it how it was before, impact my ass, this limp dicked company cannot commit.
    You can also restart most video games. Oh no, every game ever is completely inconsequential!!!! What will we do!?!

  11. #10611
    I guess it doesn't help that the global scale of the war is only explored in the descriptions of missions - text you can easily miss in the app, as you have to tap an inconspicuous icon to see it.

  12. #10612
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Shocking? The only shocking story thing in BfA is how bad the story is. Not even the burning of Teldrassil has been shocking.

    What shocking thing could happen? Sylvanas dies? She’ll attack Thunder Bluff or Stormwind? It’s all pretty pointless. Shocking would be something like Sylvanas kills Anduin or Jaina but that’s never going to happen.
    That last thing that shocked me was her becoming Warchief in Legion. Blizzard doesn’t have good writers.
    "You know you that bitch when you cause all this conversation."

  13. #10613
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Thrall does not exist. The writers had him say something, presumably for a reason. Can you come up with a different reason to have Thrall say that other than foreshadowing?
    Red herring. But because its Thrall of course he is right, even though he has no way of knowing that.

  14. #10614
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Jaina only even goes to Orgrimmar because of a personal request by Valeera
    Not really - yes, Anduin asked Jaina to go to Orgrimmar, but... Jaina was very quick to agree to Anduin's request and seemed genuinely worried for Baine, which indicates that she has some degree of respect towards him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    We saw how that worked out with the Blood Elves in Orgrimmar. Jaina is not well liked.
    She is not well liked by a specific sub-faction of the Blood Elves. Considering that the Alliance is rather unlikely to even consider working with Sylvanas, the potential team up is probably going to involve the part of the Horde that more or less openly supports Saurfang. After Orgrimmar, I feel the Sunreavers are more likely to side with Sylvanas, so they're not likely to get involved in the team up and thus aren't really a problem. The other Blood Elves who choose to follow Lor'themar might not like Jaina, but should be capable of working with her, even if only due to loyalty to their leader.

    Also, any specific sub-faction won't be calling the shots - the racial/rebellion leaders are. Now... The rebellion is lead by Thrall, Saurfang and Baine, all of whom Jaina has recently worked with and appears to be on relatively good terms. Moreover, the rebellion is most likely going to be supported by:
    - Lor'themar and Thalyssra, who got along with Jaina just fine in Nazjatar
    - Mayla Highmountain (through Baine) and Rokhan (Darkspear Trolls love Thrall and Rokhan has expressed some doubts about Sylvanas before), who shouldn't really have anything against Jaina
    - Talanji (she's closest to Rokhan and the Darkspear, so if they choose to side with the rebellion, Talanji will probably do it as well; besides - she also expressed some doubts about Sylvanas and respects Vol'jin, who was Thrall's friend, quite a lot) - now, Talanji has a very good reason to hate Jaina, but she seems very reasonable and level-headed, so I could absolutely imagine her putting that aside for the greater good.

    So, out of all Horde leaders that are probably going to work with the Alliance, one is a bit iffy (Talanji) and the rest either shouldn't mind Jaina or are on good terms with her. Not bad. The only other Alliance leader that has the same or better type of connection with the Horde is Anduin, but sending the High King of the Alliance to fight tentacle monsters personally seems a bit stupid, so I think he will stay behind - just like he does for most of BfA. Other Alliance leaders? The only ones that aren't mostly MIA are:
    - Mekkatorque - currently unavailable, probably will stay that way for a bit
    - Genn and Tyrande - too skeptical of the Horde
    - Alleria/Umbric - probably will be involved due to their connection to the void, but... knowing that the void likes to corrupt people, having two people who openly use it lead the fight against an Old God is a bit risky.

    And Jaina? She's like a family to Anduin and he trusts her a lot, especially now that she seems more stable emotionally. Other Alliance leaders respect her and she has recently worked with Horde leaders who will likely get involved in the partnership between the factions. She's also one of the most powerful people in the Alliance and - if anything goes south, she's a much smaller loss for the Alliance's leadership structure than Anduin. Seems like a perfect fit to lead the Alliance expedition against the Old Gods and serve as a link to the Horde partners.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Magni, Brann, Faol and Calia, Voss was completely neutral an expansion ago
    Magni was recently played by N'zoth. He's also pretty neutral right now, so it's hard for him to speak for the Alliance.
    Brann is more of a support character that can help with his expertise, not an actual Alliance leader.
    Calia is mostly MIA, doesn't hold any real power and I don't really see a reason why she'd come back to fight N'zoth.
    Voss is a Horde character and I also don't see a reason why she'd be a big player in the fight against N'zoth.

    What Jaina brings to the table that others don't? Well, if both factions have to more openly work together against N'zoth, she's the best candidate on the Alliance side to represent Anduin (so that he isn't in risk of getting killed/corrupted) and serve as a link to the Horde
    Last edited by Sarethion; 2019-08-01 at 11:18 AM.

  15. #10615
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Alternately:

    It might seem to be completely obvious but wait. There will be a twist.

    And it totally IS the obvious.
    the twist will always be non-existent as long as we create 10000000 different twists ourselves and talk about those twists for months, apart from the horrible writting of GOT, that was also a problem it had.

  16. #10616
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Shocking? The only shocking story thing in BfA is how bad the story is. Not even the burning of Teldrassil has been shocking.

    What shocking thing could happen? Sylvanas dies? She’ll attack Thunder Bluff or Stormwind? It’s all pretty pointless. Shocking would be something like Sylvanas kills Anduin or Jaina but that’s never going to happen.
    I would be pretty shocked if N'zoth is confirmed to be the final boss. I would be shocked the writing team has so casually tossed aside the main plot just to appease the fans who don't like the faction war very much.

  17. #10617
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    The war isn't over and Undercity is gone, Tirisfal glades is a plagued and destroyed mess, Teldrassil was burned down, with the Night Elves now what you might call endangered and refugees. Thunderbluff risks destruction, Dazar'alor was sacked and the Zandalari king slain.
    Agreed, some important things have happened, but... we all know that the war will most likely end in some sort of a white peace scenario, where nobody really loses, which kinda does make the fact that both sides have taken some losses mean a bit less.

  18. #10618
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    No idea how you can come to that conclusion. The war isn't over and Undercity is gone, Tirisfal glades is a plagued and destroyed mess, Teldrassil was burned down, with the Night Elves now what you might call endangered and refugees. Thunderbluff risks destruction, Dazar'alor was sacked and the Zandalari king slain.

    The intro to this expansion alone has left more of an impact than literally any event besides the Cataclysm. Complain about every other not-Cata expansion being meaningless because nothing happens before you complain about BfA's war not having a lasting impression.
    In my opinion you incredibly overestimate the impact of this faction war.

    Yes, Teldrassil and Darkshore are in parts destroyed.

    Yes, Undercity and Tirisfal are in parts destroyed.

    Who cares? How does it matter? It doesn’t. That’s the point. Darnassus and Undercity were pretty dead cities already. We have almost no important casualties in this war. Thunder Bluff matters even less than that. And Dazaralor? Who the hell cares, this city is a year old.

    So the war isn’t over... where’s the peak? When should all of this happen? In 8.2.5? In 8.3? When do we get a resolution? Sure the war is going on since 8.0 but it doesn’t feel like it because we’ve been distracted by so many other pointless things in the war plotline (Uldir, Eternal Palace), there’s no focus.

    I call it war when very prominent characters die and something MEANINGFUL happens. This wasn’t the case yet.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarethion View Post
    Agreed, some important things have happened, but... we all know that the war will most likely end in some sort of a white peace scenario, where nobody really loses, which kinda does make the fact that both sides have taken some losses mean a bit less.
    This. The problem is if we end this joke of a war in peace and even unite factions (LOL!) it would even make all of the impact this war basically has less and just support my original claim: this war is anything but genuine, natural or realistic. It’s a boring and lame plot that reeks artificial and made up.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I would be pretty shocked if N'zoth is confirmed to be the final boss. I would be shocked the writing team has so casually tossed aside the main plot just to appease the fans who don't like the faction war very much.

    One thing I’m sure about is that we’re not going to fight (or even kill) N’zoth this expansion.
    Last edited by Nyel; 2019-08-01 at 02:28 PM.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  19. #10619
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Thrall does not exist. The writers had him say something, presumably for a reason. Can you come up with a different reason to have Thrall say that other than foreshadowing?
    So Thrall is being granted totally legit visions of the future now or what? Stop thinking of this crap like its legit writing.

  20. #10620
    Still no PTR .
    I guess it's pretty early in the US but still.

    I hope they drop it THIS week or else I have been on edge for a week for no reason.
    Why would they drop the PTR notes and not release the PTR within the next days.

    I sincerely hope it drops today or at least tomorrow.

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