1. #14161
    Quote Originally Posted by Caperfin View Post
    im going to say something crazy...flying mount battles
    In an alternate timeline, Wintergrasp flying combat was implemented and everybody loved it, except for those who couldn't stomach the motion sickness. Also in that timeline, World of Starcraft released complete with full space combat

  2. #14162
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    If the logic of a squish is just to reduce "number bloat" and a 120 now is supposed to be an equivalent to a lv 60 post-squish then what makes you assume it'll be faster?
    I'm not assuming that they will do it - it's just a logical next step based on your argument, i.e. if they aren't willing to do 5 level increments per expansion, because then each level will feel too slow to get then at least the last 15-20 levels in the new, squished leveling system will also feel slow (i.e. bad) and they might want to avoid that too.

    Like, take BfA content as an example - if they squished levels from 120 to 60, they'd still be craming 10 levels worth of leveling experience from BfA into 5 levels. So, my question to you is - if it's fine to do that for BfA content, why shouldn't it also be fine for a new expansion?
    Last edited by Sarethion; 2019-09-10 at 08:46 PM.

  3. #14163
    Immortal ArgusTheUnmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    I'm going to hold you to this, now.

    "Marlamin said Sylvanas joins the Black Empire".
    I wonder what Sargeras is thinking while all of this is going down.

  4. #14164
    Pit Lord FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarethion View Post
    I'm not assuming that they will do it - it's just a logical next step based on your argument
    I dont think you even understand my argument. I was saying we will not ever see a 5 lvl increment to max cap anymore because Blizzard already came out and said it felt bad to many players. Do you want to know why? Because they did not just say "ok in Cata we will raise it by 5 levels so people only have to level 5 times", they did instead "ok we will make the cap 5 lvls away but there will still be 10 lvls worth of exp required to reach that cap". Aka every single level became 2x longer.

    Nowhere am I making any further argument other than they will not do 5 lvl increments anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarethion View Post
    Like, take BfA content as an example - if they squished levels from 120 to 60, they'd still be craming 10 levels worth of leveling experience from BfA into 5 levels. So, my question to you is - if it's fine to do that for BfA content, why shouldn't it also be fine for a new expansion?
    You're assuming a lot of things again. What is making you think that when they do a level squish they will just make every expansion leveling zone/2?

    Cata/Original content is 1-60, how do you believe they will handle that? They already made both Outland and Northrend lv 60-80 zones when one was originally 60-70 and the other 70-80. Ditto with Cata and MoP areas (both are now interchangeable 80-90 leveling zones). Who's to say post-squish, they don't make Legion/BfA interchangeable 10 lvl spanning zones like they've done with Cata/MoP?

    Like I said before, they're going to be very careful IF they institute a level squish because it's going to impact many systems involved with leveling. The Zones, the creatures, stats, experience gains, time between level ups, etc.

    It's not a simple "divide everything by 2".

  5. #14165
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Pretty much completely baseless. 9.0 will be announced at Blizzcon, probably for the usual late summer release. This leaves ~9 months in which 8.3 can be tested and released.

    There is no absence of room. They could release 8.3 PTR a month after Blizzcon, test it for 3-4 months, and still release it with enough time for there to be 4-5 months of 8.3 prior to prepatch. Not to mention the very obvious option of simply going for a fall release instead of a summer one, giving them effective the better part of a year to test and release 8.3 and beta 9.0.

    There's no locked down timetable here. All they are doing by timing out the patches more sparsely is cutting into the end of expansion content drought.
    8.3 will launch late jan/early feb, or else this tier will last longer than 6 months, which doesnt happen anymore.

  6. #14166
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathanyel View Post
    People like you is why Blizzard doesn't want to announce stuff until they're 100% sure it will go live.
    I sure as hell triggered all the fanboys with that line. Blizzard has been bullshitting us with such plot details before, call it being deceptive to keep it a surprise if you need that to sleep at night. It still doesn't change the fact that there is no point to take them literally anymore when it comes to these things, especially if it's something along the lines of "you will know after the next cinematic", which could mean anything.

  7. #14167
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    Because they did not just say "ok in Cata we will raise it by 5 levels so people only have to level 5 times", they did instead "ok we will make the cap 5 lvls away but there will still be 10 lvls worth of exp required to reach that cap". Aka every single level became 2x longer.
    That's exactly how I understood your argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    Who's to say post-squish, they don't make Legion/BfA interchangeable 10 lvl spanning zones like they've done with Cata/MoP?
    And that's a direct reduction in 1-MAX leveling time, because instead of having to do both Legion and BfA, you will just have to do one of them. That's what I was talking about.
    Last edited by Sarethion; 2019-09-10 at 09:14 PM.

  8. #14168
    How I'd do a level squish (with a world revamp).

    - Your new level is equal to 1/3 of the old level. A level 120 character goes down to level 40.

    - New max level: 60. You need the new expansion to go past level 40.

    - Allied races now start at level 10. Existing allied race characters that would be converted bellow that are upped to 10. Allied races can be unlocked in the new content leveling, by completing new storylines that show their updated status and reaching level 40. You then return to the embassy and talk to the Pandaren leader of your faction to "learn" (play) how those races joined in the past (old unlock scenarios).

    - Death Knights and Demon Hunters start at level 20. DKs that would be converted bellow that are upped to 20. A DH made before the patch would be converted as normal (a recently-created level 98 would go down to 32, not 20).

    - You can level up entirely in the new versions of the continents.

    - Past expansions all scale from level 20-40. Leveling up in them is entirely optional.

    - Areas of the world are divided in 3 brackets: Starting areas (1-20), Pre-expansion areas (10-60) and High Level areas (40-60). The first 2 brackets are available in prepatch. The last bracket, during prepatch, has all mobs scaled to 60, no quests available and you can't reveal areas of the map nor learn flight paths until expansion release. Roughtly 50% of EK/Kalimdor zones are in the last bracket.

    - There's 6 talent rows, and you get a talent row every 10 levels. Many "obligatory" old talents are made baseline (see bellow).

    - There's a Skill Tree you unlock as you level up. You learn the basic spec skills over the first 10 levels, then gain a skill point each level after. Skill points are used to improve known skills or learn new ones. The skill tree is fully completed by level 60, so there's no impact in max level play.

    - Most classes are based on current design, but improved by getting more situational and utility skills. Some talents and PvP talents are made baseline as well. As an example, hunters could get Eyes of the Beast back and gain Camouflage as baseline.

  9. #14169
    Pit Lord FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarethion View Post
    And that's a direct reduction in 1-MAX leveling time, because instead of having to do both Legion and BfA, you will just have to do one of them. That's what I was talking about.
    You realize that it takes longer to level now than before, despite them doing things like making Cata and MoP their own 80-90 levels? For instance, the majority loathes the 60-80 bracket because of the longer time it takes. And overall the speed to level post 7.3.5 (from 1-110) has been slower than previously.

    Again, you're assuming things/jumping to conclusions without looking at everything. If they merge Legion/BfA in a post-squish that doesn't mean "oh these 10 lvls are now FASTER", it just means you have more of a choice of where to level within that bracket.

  10. #14170
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    You realize that it takes longer to level now than before, despite them doing things like making Cata and MoP their own 80-90 levels?
    Merging expansions into brackets wasn't the only thing that they did in 7.2.5. They also nerfed experience bonuses from things like heirlooms, tweaked the experience curve, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    If they merge Legion/BfA in a post-squish that doesn't mean "oh these 10 lvls are now FASTER"
    I guess they could just merge them into a bracket, but still require you to do most of Legion and BfA anyway, keeping it relatively the same.

    Fair point.
    Last edited by Sarethion; 2019-09-10 at 09:56 PM.

  11. #14171
    I wrote it somewhere, but this is how I imagine squish. Not necessary my wishlist, just how I picture they'll could do it:

    1-20, no changes, allied races still from 20

    20-40, "classic" zones - same XP needed as current 20-60

    40-50 - choice between BC, Wrath, MoP and Cata, so smooth levelling all the way, I imagine people will go to Outland/Northend only for nostalgia reasons; XP needed same as current 60-80

    50-60 choice between WoD, Legion and BfA; for sure they will have to nerf or even removed WoD potion and bonus objectives; XP needed same as current 80-100

    60-70 new expac.

    Squish would be very simple: 120->60, rest cut in half (maybe beside 1-20 characters). And I would love to option for transfer character (one way) from Classic to Live, but I don't think community will be ready for that.

    Overall in this scenario levelling would be shorter, but not as drastic as maybe some people hope. 1-60 would need same XP as current 1-100, but instead of Outland/Northend you could choose better designed MoP/Cata.

  12. #14172
    New RAF system coming "Soon".

    Soon ... hum

  13. #14173
    Pit Lord FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarethion View Post
    Merging expansions into brackets wasn't the only thing that they did in 7.2.5. They also nerfed experience bonuses from things like heirlooms, tweaked the experience curve, etc.
    Yeah, but this only backs up what I'm saying. They're not simply going to do a "levels/2" whenever/if they decide to do a level squish. It'll come with a whole lot of other changes too, but overall it doesn't necessarily mean it'll be faster (likewise doesn't necessarily mean slower either).

    There's a lot to consider with it overall and it'll be interesting to see what all comes with a level squish.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Xu Sheng View Post
    New RAF system coming "Soon".

    Soon ... hum
    Honestly, since the blue post says "few months" instead of "next month" it means a few things:

    1) Patch 8.2.5 and the new RAF aren't synced together (aka RAF comes later)
    2) Patch 8.2.5 are linked together and we could be heading into Blizzcon before even 8.2.5. drops.

    Honestly I still think we're going to get 8.2.5 late Sept/early Oct (because it doesn't seem like there's lots of new systems going in which is why 8.2 took a while). But I'd be incredibly surprised if 8.2.5 came out after Blizzcon.

  14. #14174
    Quote Originally Posted by Seasz View Post
    Except it literally says it's coming in a few months
    No, it doesn't. It says "in the next few months", which is a semi-legalese phrase that covers every date between next week and January.

    It's basically a new form of Soon™.

  15. #14175
    The Unstoppable Force Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArgusTheUnmaker View Post
    I don't know what you're talking about, other than the lack of main story questlines for 7.2, as well as some of the AP grinding, (Which still got positive opinions at the end of the day), Legion had a pretty good rep prior to 7.3, and that was due to the quality of content lasting for the long run.

    - - - Updated - - -

    With BFA, however, the quantity is massive, but barely anything is long lasting.
    Legion was NOT well received initially.

    Like I said, it's being remembered on the content of its full lifespan, unlike BfA.

    And as for longevity of content, player engagement must be pretty solid across the features new as of BfA since they've added more of said content. And why shouldn't it be? It's clearly made for people who enjoy long-term engagement with content for a reward. As for the rest, it's basically Legion Lite, so can't imagine why it would be much different.

    I'm not enjoying BfA as much as I did Legion, which I chalk down to the design of my main class + them doubling down on the "you're never done!"-mentality. But if I did enjoy it as much as I did Legion, there'd be more shit for me to do compared to this point in Legion's lifetime.
    Classic WoW is 10% gameplay and 90% talking about "how much better it is than Retail WoW" in in-game chats, Youtube Videos, Twitch or ALL the forums.

  16. #14176
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarethion View Post
    That's exactly how I understood your argument.


    And that's a direct reduction in 1-MAX leveling time, because instead of having to do both Legion and BfA, you will just have to do one of them. That's what I was talking about.
    I would love if we actually had to do at least 80% of the leveling content to hit cap

  17. #14177
    You remember that one kid in class who was always embarrassed to show his homework to the teacher because he knew he did a terrible job?

    That's how Blizzard is treating 8.2.5 and 8.3.

  18. #14178
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    3. "The point of the program is old former players and brand new players" Why them exclusively? Especially right now when lot of people with even 5+ years inactive accounts returned?
    Because there's no point in recruiting current players. They're already playing the game, you don't need to entice them to play the game.

  19. #14179
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    They have done an uneven number for a level cap for and technically for 2 expansions the level cap was raised by an odd number
    Well, yes, because it takes two odd numbers to make it even again. They realized their mistake and had to fix it the tough way. With scaling mobs and quest rewards, a level cap of only five increments makes a lot of rewards redundant and mobs bland. 10 level increments provides a smoother scaling curve.

  20. #14180
    Quote Originally Posted by Frood View Post
    Well, yes, because it takes two odd numbers to make it even again. They realized their mistake and had to fix it the tough way. With scaling mobs and quest rewards, a level cap of only five increments makes a lot of rewards redundant and mobs bland. 10 level increments provides a smoother scaling curve.
    it all depends on how they scale it also an easy way to make leveling feel good is to have something for every level which is easier to do in smaller increments instead of larger ones and I don't know about you but I prefer 2 have leveling field meaningful in the way that doing most of the content is what will get you to cap instead of doing like half of it because the leveling system for the last 2 expansions has felt like s*** because we haven't gotten new abilities and we haven't gotten you talents for over 20 levels now if there's also a level talents change then that would also be interesting I'm personally I'm okay with going up five levels honestly it's just a number and you can make the difference between level 61 in level 64 feel meaningful as long as blizzard doesn't f*** it up which they probably would because for some reason they have a problem with the character feel like they're making progression and they decide to keep the characters essentially feeling bland oh wait that's right we had the same thing happen in the last two expansions because of the mob scaling so it's almost as if the system of having only five levels wouldn't feel any different from what we have now

    what's different from using a scaling leveling system and only going up five levels and using the same scaling leveling system and going up 10 levels other than the fact that if rewards are redundant and mobs are bland it just happens over smaller. Plus not feeling as bad as say going from level 100 to level 120 and not getting any new talents and having a bland leveling experience through the current expansion so much to the point that players are rushing to max level using the island expeditions which blizzard had to Nerf because it was the best way to level since after you do the story ones you essentially did on every character because no character will change at all in terms of play style during leveling because you don't even get meaningful azerite gear until after you cap because the leveling azerite gear is still the same gear that the game launched with so it has essentially half of the available traits plus it only has three rows

    my point is with the new level scaling system they could increase the max level by 7 and it wouldn't matter

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