1. #5321
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathanyel View Post
    The same kinda counts though for the Lich King, Deathwing, the Draenor Warlords...
    I think Deathwing's representation was well done during Cataclysm, especially him roaming the continents etc. The last real big massive villain we had imho. And Arthas was quite present throughout WotLK. And with the Scourge being around since Vanilla he was always somehow present in game. Naga were around since Vanilla too but Azshara never was featured or anything like that. She needed a real build up but Blizzard's writing failed in this regard.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  2. #5322
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    Yes, let's "be real" in regards to a PG12 title featuring everything from unicorns to dwarf people taking face hits from dragons.

    If Tinkers are a thing in the future, Blizzard can decide whatever they want as to which races can be the class or not. The Vulpera are extremely intelligent, being able to learn new things shouldn't exactly come as a surprise.
    They are furry Nomads that live in a dessert, their culture doesn't exactly support tinkering and engineering.

    I mean really:
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurmech View Post
    The peak of Vulpera technology is the wheel. Not what I would call tinker material.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  3. #5323
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    They are furry Nomads that live in a dessert, their culture doesn't exactly support tinkering and engineering.

    I mean really:
    Just because their culture didn't have it until they met the Horde, doesn't mean they can't be changed. The Horde was changed quite a lot by the inclusion of Goblins, for example.

    Even the real world sees cultures change. Engineering already doesn't even have a race requirement on it, so not sure why you people's imagination can't stretch beyond what the Vulpera were before meeting the Horde, really.
    Last edited by Queen of Hamsters; 2019-04-17 at 06:56 PM.

  4. #5324
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    Just because their culture didn't have it until they met the Horde, doesn't mean they can't be changed. The Horde was changed quite a lot by the inclusion of Goblins, for example.

    Even the real world sees cultures change. Engineering already doesn't even have a race requirement on it, so not sure why you people's imagination can't stretch beyond what the Vulpera were before meeting the Horde, really.
    At that point you might as well let every race be one.

  5. #5325
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    At that point you might as well let every race be one.
    Yeah I don't see why not? Every race can have Engineering already.

  6. #5326
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    They are furry Nomads that live in a dessert, their culture doesn't exactly support tinkering and engineering.

    I mean really:
    I would argue that their culture supports EXACTLY tinkering. Their resources (as of now, living alone in the desert without allies) do NOT support it. Their whole survival has depended on improvising with what resources they got (low tech tinkering.) I honestly fail to find a more fitting race other than Gnomes, Goblins and Draenei because of their obvious technological superiority.

  7. #5327
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    Yeah I don't see why not? Every race can have Engineering already.
    My point was more that it's a bit silly to use "they could learn to be tinkers" as a reason for why they should be one of the races that are tinkers in a hypothetical situation where tinkers are race-limited. Vulpera as currently depcited are decidedly non-tinker. They completely lack that sort of mechanical device/machines/robots side, and are simple traveling merchants and scavengers. It's like saying the Alliance tinker races should be Gnomes and Night Elves. They're one of least cohesive races for it, and there's no real reason to go that direction when you can just do the readily apparent ones (Gnome, Goblin, Dwarf, Draenei/LF, Blood Elf/NB, Undead, etc.)

  8. #5328
    Quote Originally Posted by zlygork View Post
    I would argue that their culture supports EXACTLY tinkering. Their resources (as of now, living alone in the desert without allies) do NOT support it. Their whole survival has depended on improvising with what resources they got (low tech tinkering.) I honestly fail to find a more fitting race other than Gnomes, Goblins and Draenei because of their obvious technological superiority.
    My thoughts exactly.
    Mankind didn't exactly start out with smartphones and helicopters, we innovated as we came across materials and people with ideas were born. Vulpera are highly intelligent, the only thing having held them back is their environment.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    My point was more that it's a bit silly to use "they could learn to be tinkers" as a reason for why they should be one of the races that are tinkers in a hypothetical situation where tinkers are race-limited. Vulpera as currently depcited are decidedly non-tinker. They completely lack that sort of mechanical device/machines/robots side, and are simple traveling merchants and scavengers. It's like saying the Alliance tinker races should be Gnomes and Night Elves. They're one of least cohesive races for it, and there's no real reason to go that direction when you can just do the readily apparent ones (Gnome, Goblin, Dwarf, Draenei/LF, Blood Elf/NB, Undead, etc.)
    It's not silly in the slightest.
    They're depicted as highly intelligent opportunists having learnt to live in a very harsh environment. Nothing about their lore says they'd be too dumb or primitive to learn new things, such as tinkering, or in the case of becoming playable in the first place, various classes.

  9. #5329
    Quote Originally Posted by zlygork View Post
    I would argue that their culture supports EXACTLY tinkering. Their resources (as of now, living alone in the desert without allies) do NOT support it. Their whole survival has depended on improvising with what resources they got (low tech tinkering.) I honestly fail to find a more fitting race other than Gnomes, Goblins and Draenei because of their obvious technological superiority.
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    My thoughts exactly.
    Mankind didn't exactly start out with smartphones and helicopters, we innovated as we came across materials and people with ideas were born. Vulpera are highly intelligent, the only thing having held them back is their environment.

    It's not silly in the slightest.
    They're depicted as highly intelligent opportunists having learnt to live in a very harsh environment. Nothing about their lore says they'd be too dumb or primitive to learn new things, such as tinkering, or in the case of becoming playable in the first place, various classes.

    Finding trinkets in ruins and selling them/shiny things to put on your wagon is not, in any way, even remotely equivalent to running around in a mech suit firing rocket barrages and deploying flame turrets and battle bots. It's not about being too dumb or lacking resources, it's about that entire thematic having ZERO relation to their culture, lifestyle and approach to things.

  10. #5330
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    If Tinkers become a class, the vision I'd go for is Gnomes and Goblins. I know that's very restrictive but it's how I've seen it since Tinkers were even a thing.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde

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  11. #5331
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Finding trinkets in ruins and selling them/shiny things to put on your wagon is not, in any way, even remotely equivalent to running around in a mech suit firing rocket barrages and deploying flame turrets and battle bots. It's not about being too dumb or lacking resources, it's about that entire thematic having ZERO relation to their culture, lifestyle and approach to things.
    They have world quests where they send you to test different pieces of goblin engineering to learn to use them. I do get your point that it is definetly a bit too short of a time frame for them to go around controlling robots, but I still wouldn't say that it would be an equivalent to night elves, because the interest is there.
    And if tinkering happened to not be a hero class, then there is no point in us discussing any of this as I'd expect the monk treatment.

  12. #5332
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    Finding trinkets in ruins and selling them/shiny things to put on your wagon is not, in any way, even remotely equivalent to running around in a mech suit firing rocket barrages and deploying flame turrets and battle bots. It's not about being too dumb or lacking resources, it's about that entire thematic having ZERO relation to their culture, lifestyle and approach to things.
    I remember discussions very similar to this one before MoP in regards to monks and the many races that "couldn't be monk based on their culture".

    Again: Just because it's not part of them now, doesn't mean it can't be later on. Same as how mankind spent far more millennia without technology than with it. Vulpera are 100% opportunistic enough that they'd be able to learn and adopt new things. They've already expressed interest and curiosity in the Goblin technology, for example.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by zlygork View Post
    And if tinkering happened to not be a hero class, then there is no point in us discussing any of this as I'd expect the monk treatment.
    Agreed.

    If Tinkers become a thing, I'd be surprised to see them restricted to 2 of the least popular races on both factions to boot. Imagine if they'd restricted Monks to Pandaren, as was rumored among players for a long time.

  13. #5333
    Arthas and Calia Menethil, Sylvanas, Bolvar and Taelia Fordragon, Bwonsamdi, Talanji, the Drust and the Thornspeakers, Dark Rangers and Elune are all pointing to Tinkers clearly.

  14. #5334
    Scarab Lord Vynestra's Avatar
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    I just want them to get tinkerer out of the way so the class after that is truly a mystery.

    I mean what, bard?

    It'd be a free for all.

  15. #5335
    Gnomes: get content for first time since cata
    ZOMG TINKERS!!!!!111

  16. #5336
    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    Gnomes: get content for first time since cata
    ZOMG TINKERS!!!!!111
    The era of gnomes is now old man, you can live in your burning tree or floating city, alternatively you can join the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by Someone I don't like
    Something I perceive as stupid or overly emotional.
    A quote that justifies my ideology, or attributes my opposition's position to ignorance or selfishness. - Some Nobody

  17. #5337
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurmech View Post
    The era of gnomes is now old man, you can live in your burning tree or floating city, alternatively you can join the future.
    An era stuck in a small little island filled with trash gnomes fighting trash gnomes.

  18. #5338
    Quote Originally Posted by alosiboy View Post
    An era stuck in a small little island filled with trash gnomes fighting trash gnomes.
    Ironically, from what I'm seeing about the progression systems and rewards in both areas, Mechagon is going to be packed in comparison to Nazjatar.

  19. #5339
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    They are furry Nomads that live in a dessert, their culture doesn't exactly support tinkering and engineering.

    I mean really:
    I'd say it necessitates tinkering. They have limited resources, they need to make workable solutions from what is available. They have the reversed approach from gnomes: A gnome starts with something and seeks to find out what they can make from it. A Vulpera needs something and tries to find something they can adapt to that need.

  20. #5340
    Quote Originally Posted by EbaumsTipster View Post
    Ironically, from what I'm seeing about the progression systems and rewards in both areas, Mechagon is going to be packed in comparison to Nazjatar.
    You could say the same about Isle of Giants/Thunder on paper, but the reality is that early on people will populate Nazjatar for story/progression/etc, and later on Mechagon will get more and more empty as people finish their grinds.

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