BfA Patch Speculation thread (8.3 and later).

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

What exactly is your purpose on these forums?

Pot stirrer.

[FlubberPuddy]

Depends what one means by that. Usually I see are demands to bring some element of classic but just straight out copy paste instead of trying to refine it from it's arachic classic view(This isn't a slight against the Classic devs, they have a job to recreate classic, tumors and all).

Yeah typically it is just "bring this back as it was 100%" but that's not what I'm talking about. What I mean is take some elemental from Classic, find what made it fun, then see if some new form of it can be made that melds with the modern context of the game Current WoW is today.

A much more complex task, that may not even be done. But if Blizzard could pull it off, it could do add really well to the game.

I mean, I'm sure there are some things people miss, that can be discovered as a middle-ground between what it was in Vanilla vs what we have today in Current WoW.

Like leveling for example. Leveling is frankly very boring in Current WoW, even the developers have agreed as such. Well then, what made it impactful in Vanilla? Most people would say Classic leveling feels good but what about it exactly? Is it the part of getting something each level? Did the rewards fit the pacing? Was it balancing that cadence of moments of "high octane gameplay" (just using as descriptive comparison) with the "relaxed back in town moments"?

Would leveling for instance feel better in WoW if players got some sort of rewards every level similar to how ESO has rewards per level with level milestones?

This is the sort of stuff I'm talking about. Not just straight up "let's revert back exactly as it was" that's clearly stupid. The people who play WoW today aren't all the same people that played, or would even enjoy the type of gameplay that is in Classic. Some might, but clearly not all.

And there is always something with Current WoW that can be better iterated on. Like for instance how Legion did RNG fairly well, but Blizzard tried to go all in with it in BFA and how it is now too much. So we're seeing small returns of things like obtaining currencies for rewards (like the Island Expo coins are now vs the beginning of BFA).

Hope I conveyed this well enough.

[Nathanyel]

Like leveling for example. Leveling is frankly very boring in Current WoW, even the developers have agreed as such. Well then, what made it impactful in Vanilla? Most people would say Classic leveling feels good but what about it exactly?

Sure, a part of that is because it's more difficult - not more challenging per se, just more effort, more risk. But I think it's mostly that it's different than live WoW. It's a different way to play in a familiar setting, of course that's great - for a while.

Regarding "rewards while levelling", I'm still of the opinion that talent points every level or other stuff would simply ve too distracting in the long run. There's enough happening while levelling if you quest to entertain you. If you spam dungeons, sure, it can get boring, but that's the direct price of that method, not a shortcoming of levelling itself.

[Zandalariprelate]

I feel like Legion was great because there was more single player content that didn't require grouping. Going through the class hall storylines, doing the actually rewarding mission tables, unlocking new skins for your artifact weapons. Each class that you decide to play adds onto this. I used to just play on a single main until Legion, but in that expansion I actually leveled up other classes to play them and experience their class stories and etc. I still only had time to pug raid normals and heroic on 1 character though.

In BFA, since they toned it down to just "1 horde 1 ally to see it all" they severely reduced content for single players, especially with vastly unrewarding mission tables (they're likely on their way out).

To me it's why BFA feels like a let-down compared to Legion. Not enough different content for the solo player to do. Your BFA experience on an alliance mage vs alliance priest is going to be pretty much exactly the same other than class gameplay.

Fully agree, Legion 0.5 is a good way to describe BFA, however I have to say I prefer they scrapped the legendaries and the AP farm isn't really something really forced to farm quickly upon you, I remember for raiding you have to catch up with doing hours of MoS farming in Mythic plus. Although I have to say the mage tower is something that came later by 8.2 and 8.3 added literally some balacing changes that improved the QoL of the game, blizzard really need to push some permanent system and just improve over time, the new azerite talent being glyphs is just a proof that you don't have to reinvent the wheel to make the product more fancy, just add new things or some twist to old system and be done with it.

Edit: Another hint for the Vulperas
https://www.wowhead.com/news=292270/...game-cutscenes

I am sure the furry fans will love this

[Queen of Hamsters]

I am sure the furry fans will love this

Not a Furry fan (ever seen the piece on the Rainfurrest festival? Yuck), big fan of Vulpera though, very happy to see more and more proof.

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Sure, a part of that is because it's more difficult - not more challenging per se, just more effort, more risk. But I think it's mostly that it's different than live WoW. It's a different way to play in a familiar setting, of course that's great - for a while.

Regarding "rewards while levelling", I'm still of the opinion that talent points every level or other stuff would simply ve too distracting in the long run. There's enough happening while levelling if you quest to entertain you. If you spam dungeons, sure, it can get boring, but that's the direct price of that method, not a shortcoming of levelling itself.

The biggest boon of Vanilla's leveling, is that it was new, and a lot of players spent the better part of Vanilla's shelf life just leveling.
I started playing in WOTLK, and I remember viewing the quest content as the pinnacle of game design. The first time.

Now Classic's back and players can access content that's been gone for 10 years, and that's what makes it amazing again. Not design, not some magical formula, but just the fact that it's not the same old same old.

I for one am interested to see how long it'll be until Classic players start demanding that RAF and other XP boosts make their way onto Classic servers, once it becomes clear that the content won't remain new forever.

[Varitok]

Vulpera are just fur covered Goblins.

[Nathanyel]

The biggest boon of Vanilla's leveling, is that it was new, and a lot of players spent the better part of Vanilla's shelf life just leveling.
I started playing in WOTLK, and I remember viewing the quest content as the pinnacle of game design. The first time.

Now Classic's back and players can access content that's been gone for 10 years, and that's what makes it amazing again. Not design, not some magical formula, but just the fact that it's not the same old same old.

That obviously too.

[FlubberPuddy]

Fully agree, Legion 0.5 is a good way to describe BFA, however I have to say I prefer they scrapped the legendaries and the AP farm isn't really something really forced to farm quickly upon you, I remember for raiding you have to catch up with doing hours of MoS farming in Mythic plus. Although I have to say the mage tower is something that came later by 8.2 and 8.3 added literally some balacing changes that improved the QoL of the game, blizzard really need to push some permanent system and just improve over time, the new azerite talent being glyphs is just a proof that you don't have to reinvent the wheel to make the product more fancy, just add new things or some twist to old system and be done with it.

Agreed, the nice thing is Ion has said going forward they'll add some of that permanence back, which I'm happy to hear and look forward to. Iterating on old systems is definitely a better approach than always trying to reinvent the wheel.

Edit: Another hint for the Vulperas
https://www.wowhead.com/news=292270/...game-cutscenes

I am sure the furry fans will love this

And this find may be new but it was added in Patch 8.1.0.28294 from what the article states. So it precedes even the Brewfest Icon addition.

Interesting that we have these things for Vulpera, and then for Mechagnomes there isn't anything like this but then we were found in the "Race database" files. Either Blizzard is all over the place or they're just teasing the crowd.

It then will look silly of them when they replied in that one thread saying "y'know just cause it looks like they're gonna be a race, doesn't mean they will be!" -wink- -wink- -nudge- -nudge-

[Taeldorian]

I’ll say this, it seems like 8.2 is moving in the right direction. It’s not nearly enough imo as it doesn’t fix the major issues the game has but it does fix almost all of BfAs issues. It also looks good for the future of WoW as well. Benthic gear being a gearing system/upgrade system with no RNG, essences being obtained with no RNG walls, traits don’t need to be regrinded on Azerite Armor, mechagon focusing on sandbox content like timeless isle, etc. Obviously there’s still issues but this patch does feel like a step in the right direction overall. My main hope is that the raid is good, it looks fantastic but I hope it’s not another BoD in regards to tuning.

[FlubberPuddy]

Sure, a part of that is because it's more difficult - not more challenging per se, just more effort, more risk. But I think it's mostly that it's different than live WoW. It's a different way to play in a familiar setting, of course that's great - for a while.

Definitely mainly the difference, ie the pacing. I'd say, like you, while not more challenging it's definitely just being a bit more methodological. I'd probably compare it to say the difference of cutting through enemies in a Dark Souls game vs cutting through enemies in a Dynasty Warriors game.

The bit about it being great "for a while" idk, that's a maybe. Like for instance myself I don't think I'll ever tire of the patience that's required in stealth games. While that doesn't mean I'm only ever going to play stealth games, it's certainly unforseeable when I'll get tired of that kind of gameplay.

Same thing for WoW's leveling. I think most of those who wanted Classic are fans of the way leveling is in Classic, obviously. Will tourists get bored? Most likey. Will some retailers that come over to Classic prefer it Current? Pretty likely some will. Some people like a grind. How often they do the grind is another case entirely.

Burnout will definitely happen, but that's expected in anything anyone does constantly without much, if any, downtime.

Regarding "rewards while levelling", I'm still of the opinion that talent points every level or other stuff would simply ve too distracting in the long run. There's enough happening while levelling if you quest to entertain you. If you spam dungeons, sure, it can get boring, but that's the direct price of that method, not a shortcoming of levelling itself.

Maybe, I simply meant to convey there's something about Vanilla/Classic's leveling that people enjoy. And there is an obvious issue with the leveling in Current WoW for many players. Enough so that even the development team agrees.

That means there's some room to innovate, or even meld some of Classic leveling into Current leveling. How though is the question and I'm not smart enough to come up with those ideas. That they meekly mentioned a level squish as a possible option means they're discussing what ways to go about changing it so I don't see it staying as is for the life of the game.

[AngerFork]

And this find may be new but it was added in Patch 8.1.0.28294 from what the article states. So it precedes even the Brewfest Icon addition.

Interesting that we have these things for Vulpera, and then for Mechagnomes there isn't anything like this but then we were found in the "Race database" files. Either Blizzard is all over the place or they're just teasing the crowd.

It then will look silly of them when they replied in that one thread saying "y'know just cause it looks like they're gonna be a race, doesn't mean they will be!" -wink- -wink- -nudge- -nudge-

I've always thought that quote about things looking like a race not being a race was more lined up with the ThinHuman space they were using in the character database.

Regardless though, I'm psyched if playable Vulpera are actually on their way (which really at this point feels like a matter of time thing). They are a very unique race and I suspect will have a ton more players than something like Gilgoblins would.

[FlubberPuddy]

I've always thought that quote about things looking like a race not being a race was more lined up with the ThinHuman space they were using in the character database.

Regardless though, I'm psyched if playable Vulpera are actually on their way (which really at this point feels like a matter of time thing). They are a very unique race and I suspect will have a ton more players than something like Gilgoblins would.

I believe it was said when people were referring to something in the files regarding Vulpera, unless I'm recalling wrong. It has been a while.

Yeah super happy, the Zandalari were the first Horde race I actually felt compelled to play and now Vulpera will add another to that roster.

Also anyone who's been rallying themselves over Gilbins thinking they would be more popular were just fooling themselves. Vulpera have everything about mass appeal in terms of a furry race. And goblins in comparison to that stand no choice at all.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I believe it was said when people were referring to something in the files regarding Vulpera, unless I'm recalling wrong. It has been a while.

Yeah super happy, the Zandalari were the first Horde race I actually felt compelled to play and now Vulpera will add another to that roster.

Also anyone who's been rallying themselves over Gilbins thinking they would be more popular were just fooling themselves. Vulpera have everything about mass appeal in terms of a furry race. And goblins in comparison to that stand no choice at all.

Alliance might need something if thats the route they are going.


P.S. if I had to choose a favorite Horde Allied race, Nightborne would be one I'd go or the Mag'har.

[FlubberPuddy]

Alliance might need something if thats the route they are going.


P.S. if I had to choose a favorite Horde Allied race, Nightborne would be one I'd go or the Mag'har.

Blizzard are going to simply add Mechagnomes and say this:



Nightborne are my next favorite, if Vulpera can't be Warlocks then there's a Nightborne Warlock waiting for me to be leveled.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

Well for me, vulpera will be another reason to not come back at this point.

I truly dislike how they handled the whole allied/sub race system, that was one of my most anticipated ones for years.
I hoped for many OG races..

[Porcodio]

Just because people like some aspect of Classic, even to the point of actively talking about it, does absolutely not mean it should influence Live/Retail.
People have interest in Classic because they want to relive old content, for better or worse.
Live WoW, on the other hand, should stride forward, not try (and likely fail) to replicate some aspect of its old incarnation.

Live currently failed introducing new things after removing some, maybe rollback?

[Nathanyel]

Live currently failed introducing new things after removing some, maybe rollback?

Going back to how it was 14 years ago is not the solution, though.
Adding back some things that were removed (most of which weren't in Vanilla anyway) might help, but it can't fix everything. The game needs to go forward, not backward.

[Porcodio]

Exemplii Gratia:

-Tier Set removed for Anonymous Set-

This one is probably one of the most evident failure of BfA, but I can already see some user here willing to write an essay with empty words trying to defend it.

-Boredom of Levelling-

Storytelling in WoD/Legion/BfA is good ( not the lore but the storytelling/cinematic cutscenes etc etc) but then when the world outside doesn't feels danger since you can erase life with 1 aoe...

-Profession-

In 8.2 they try adding socket so crafted gear ( not the ring ) beacuse they were subpar with rings.
But still Vanilla-Wrath Profession are way better and meaningful.




The fact is to check which things even the slightest works better in Classic and to put on a 8.3 or 9.0 list.
As I said not everything is ok in Classic compared to BfA ( Profession are ok but mounts in bag? No please. )

[Porcodio]

Going back to how it was 14 years ago is not the solution, though.
Adding back some things that were removed (most of which weren't in Vanilla anyway) might help, but it can't fix everything. The game needs to go forward, not backward.

Sets were in vanilla.
Profession were in vanilla.

Mhhh



Game is going forward and atm the situation isn't really amazing compared to Legion, so maybe going forward isn't always the best idea?

If you are at a crossroads and go straight to the right but then you see you are going off road, you will go forward risking your life or turn back to the crossroad and take the other route?

[Th3Scourge]

Imagine believing that new content for the live game would take the back seat to Classic.

It quite literally has.

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the world outside doesn't feels danger since you can erase life with 1 aoe...

This is true. I don't remember the last time the outside world felt dangerous. All life ceases to exist around our characters now. The destructive power of our characters is the equivalent of giving everyone a participation trophy