Azortharion's Survival Hunter DPS Guide - Battle for Azeroth

[bullseyed]

Given that the patchwerk boss of the current raid tier (for example) features every single person using mongoose bite, why does the iceyveins guide say to use raptor strike for single target?

[Azortharion]

It doesn't.

[Darrkh]

When did it change to use Flanking strike as an option? I always used it in M+, but im fairly sure Tip of the Spear was the recommended choice until recently

[Azortharion]

The only thing that has changed recently is that we generally do not recommend Tip of the Spear anymore. This is within the past week as you mention. (Because now, those "high Haste levels" have sort of become the norm).

It is still true that Flanking Strike gains a lot of value in M+ and is a good choice for overall DPS, but it is not favoured within the community very much. It is probably a bit underrated by people compared to how competitive it is, but that is what tends to happen to stuff that is not quite meta, but pretty close.

Check this sim for example:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...CbKkiMVbichavx

(Dungeon Slice is a Mythic+ Sim Scenario, this is with Mythic BoD gear).

[bullseyed]

It doesn't.

https://puu.sh/CBMwW/7d75d4b316.png
https://puu.sh/CBMxq/91a50fd7d9.png

Try again.

1. Single Target Rotation
The single target rotation for a Survival Hunter is based on the following priority system:

Use Coordinated Assault Icon Coordinated Assault on cooldown.
Cast Kill Command Icon Kill Command on cooldown, if it will not Focus cap you.
Cast Wildfire Bomb Icon Wildfire Bomb on cooldown, but only when the DoT is close to expiring.
When you get a Viper's Venom Icon Viper's Venom proc, cast Serpent Sting Icon Serpent Sting to spend it immediately.
Maintain the Serpent Sting Icon Serpent Sting DoT by refreshing it whenever there is less than 3 seconds remaining on it. This is rarely needed with Viper's Venom Icon Viper's Venom.
Cast Raptor Strike Icon Raptor Strike to spend Focus, always trying to prevent yourself from hitting the Focus cap.


https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/surviv...owns-abilities

[andreasels]

Try again.

1. Single Target Rotation
The single target rotation for a Survival Hunter is based on the following priority system:

Use Coordinated Assault Icon Coordinated Assault on cooldown.
Cast Kill Command Icon Kill Command on cooldown, if it will not Focus cap you.
Cast Wildfire Bomb Icon Wildfire Bomb on cooldown, but only when the DoT is close to expiring.
When you get a Viper's Venom Icon Viper's Venom proc, cast Serpent Sting Icon Serpent Sting to spend it immediately.
Maintain the Serpent Sting Icon Serpent Sting DoT by refreshing it whenever there is less than 3 seconds remaining on it. This is rarely needed with Viper's Venom Icon Viper's Venom.
Cast Raptor Strike Icon Raptor Strike to spend Focus, always trying to prevent yourself from hitting the Focus cap.


https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/surviv...owns-abilities

This is just the general rotation. Effects of talent choices on it are specified below:

7.4. Tier 6 Talents

Mongoose Bite Icon Mongoose Bite replaces Raptor Strike Icon Raptor Strike. It has the same cost and its role in the rotation is the same, but because of Mongoose Fury Icon Mongoose Fury, you want to use it in a way that allows the highest amount of Mongoose Bites in the 14-second window. Most importantly, you want to start Mongoose Fury windows (by casting the first Mongoose Bite to start the buff) at high Focus and with Kill Command Icon Kill Command on cooldown.

[Azortharion]

Try again.

1. Single Target Rotation
The single target rotation for a Survival Hunter is based on the following priority system:

Use Coordinated Assault Icon Coordinated Assault on cooldown.
Cast Kill Command Icon Kill Command on cooldown, if it will not Focus cap you.
Cast Wildfire Bomb Icon Wildfire Bomb on cooldown, but only when the DoT is close to expiring.
When you get a Viper's Venom Icon Viper's Venom proc, cast Serpent Sting Icon Serpent Sting to spend it immediately.
Maintain the Serpent Sting Icon Serpent Sting DoT by refreshing it whenever there is less than 3 seconds remaining on it. This is rarely needed with Viper's Venom Icon Viper's Venom.
Cast Raptor Strike Icon Raptor Strike to spend Focus, always trying to prevent yourself from hitting the Focus cap.


https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/surviv...owns-abilities

I think Andreasels explained it pretty well. I think it should go without saying that the talent recommendation isn't implicit in the rotation.

This is a deliberate choice, because if someone reads the guide that doesn't use Mongoose Bite (for one reason or another), especially if they are not familiar with the spec/game, it's just gonna be really confusing and they'll have no idea what that Raptor Strike spell in their spell book is meant for.

Sometimes you get this problem in the opposite direction, but it is much less common, or at least that has been my experience in 4+ years of guidewriting.

[Ninjac]

Is the flanking strike sim well due to it giving 30 focus when you use it ? I use flanking in pvp, but never have used it in M+. I have started using BM to do M+ due to all the AOE and the fact BM can cleave very easily.

[Azortharion]

Partly Focus, partly damage. It's not just one part of it. It's still not the best by any means, just.. Not that terrible.

[Azortharion]

Icy-Veins Guides more or less updated for Patch 8.3 Release


Still got BiS stuff to do, and I think that some recommendations on the Corruption/Essence front are likely to change as we learn more and the methodology/sim tools improve.


Constructive feedback is always appreciated in my DM's or #guide  feedback.


https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/beast-...-pve-dps-guide
https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/marksm...-pve-dps-guide
https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/surviv...-pve-dps-guide

[bullseyed]

Icy-Veins Guides more or less updated for Patch 8.3 Release


Still got BiS stuff to do, and I think that some recommendations on the Corruption/Essence front are likely to change as we learn more and the methodology/sim tools improve.


Constructive feedback is always appreciated in my DM's or #guide  feedback.

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/surviv...-pve-dps-guide

Worldvein Resonance is the default raiding choice and becomes even better when many raiders are using it. It can lose its "best" status if there is a significant amount of movement, as you will then lose uptime on the Shards that it spawns near you.

Only about 15% of top SV players are using it right now, vs 55% with CLF. Assuming perfect +3 uptime, it sims equal with CLF, for most it will be more than 1k DPS loss.

This is expected to change later in the tier in full mythic gear, but is not confirmed.



Memory of Lucid Dreams is almost as good as Condensed Life-Force and will win in situations with multi-target, where Condensed Life-Force's single-target cannot keep up.

The important thing to mention about Lucid Dreams is that it only has value when you do not have enough haste to keep Coordinated Assault up to 80%+ uptime. That's also the value of CLF is the haste to keep CA uptime at 100%. If you're in a prolonged multitarget scenario, you'd use memebeam before you'd use lucid.



Breath of the Dying is supreme for almost all boss fights, providing the greatest single-target DPS boost of any Minor Essence.

At rank 3. Below rank 3 it is beaten by Worldvein minor, Lucid minor, and Ancient Flame minor, as well as Focusing Iris.

If you have infinite stars and need the corruption resistance, that is the only reason to use it before rank 3 if you're serious about raiding and have the old essences.

C&S is similar, required rank 3 and likely endgame 8.3 gear. Right now it isn't worth using over the alternatives. Everyone is using Focused/Lucid right now and 50-50 Worldvein or Ancient Flame.



7.1 Hivemind Tips -- you have an orgo BM video linked there. Same for 8.1 with a QC video.



Under rotation: Cast Wildfire Bomb Icon Wildfire Bomb on cooldown. Do not cast it if it will Focus cap you, and do not cast 2 Bombs in quick succession, as you do not want to overwrite the 6-second DoT.

Should have a statement in here about minimizing use of wildfire bombs during coordinated assault, especially if not using wilderness survival (which isn't meta anymore but will be present on the raid gear). Keeping up CA is more important than using WFB on CD.

[Azortharion]

I ran your tips by Thyminde/Velratha, who knows the most about Survival of anyone and also plays it at a high level. Her take(s) are better than anything I can write.


This was a while ago, and since then, WV has lost some of its luster with the big Corruption nerfs that are now no longer tied to Attack Power (which WV provided a lot of), so it is not as viable. I will update the guide to reflect this.

I will also add the Wildfire Bomb/Assault thing and fix the pasta mistakes on the boss page.

Thanks!

[bullseyed]

I ran your tips by Thyminde/Velratha, who knows the most about Survival of anyone and also plays it at a high level. Her take(s) are better than anything I can write.

Note that the italics in my post are quotes from your guide. So the line Thyminde calls "especially questionable [...] or im misunderstanding what the guy is attempting to say" is your guide, and you are "the guy" in her (?, was never sure and not going to ask) response.

So I'm glad you were able to verify I was correct and your guide was not, while seemingly slanting it as some kind of retort or attack at me (unless I'm reading the tone wrong). Granted most of my information came from reading Thyminde and others, so it was never going to be out of sync anyway.

This was a while ago, and since then, WV has lost some of its luster with the big Corruption nerfs that are now no longer tied to Attack Power (which WV provided a lot of), so it is not as viable. I will update the guide to reflect this.

I will also add the Wildfire Bomb/Assault thing and fix the pasta mistakes on the boss page.

Thanks!

Good point about the corruption nerfs. I know Thyminde has been beating the WV drum hard for weeks now, but looks like its already falling off in the sims and may not even become a thing. Somewhat unfortunate if we are stuck with CLF for another tier.

[Azortharion]

So I'm glad you were able to verify I was correct and your guide was not, while seemingly slanting it as some kind of retort or attack at me (unless I'm reading the tone wrong)

Just a little.