1. #1

    Fire lacks dps compared to Frost?

    I started to level on fire, and reached 118, until I got to a dungeon where a frost mage lvl 113 was outputting easily 8k dps, compared to my hard earned 4k dps, talking about single target. Using a popular rotation from icyveins.

    So I went Frost and things changed tremendeously. I could easily reach 8-9k dps.

    So is Fire really that far behind Frost, or it is I that I haven't got a clue how to play Fire?

  2. #2
    every start of an expansion fire lacks crit makes the spec less enjoyable. Numberwise frost is also stronger - and provides a shit ton of utility.

    simcraft says on raw patchwerk fight frost is only about 3-4% better than fire. Maybe you got wrong talents or not the right gear.

  3. #3
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    every start of an expansion fire lacks crit makes the spec less enjoyable. Numberwise frost is also stronger - and provides a shit ton of utility.

    simcraft says on raw patchwerk fight frost is only about 3-4% better than fire. Maybe you got wrong talents or not the right gear.
    Every start of an expansion Fire has been OP though, start of Legion, Cata and Mists especially.

  4. #4
    You can't compare DPS while leveling because there is awkward scaling going on.

    I have been leveling and gearing up to ilvl 336 since the beginning as Fire and while Frost has faster peak DPS, fire catches up slowly with it's dots. The longer the fight the better Fire gets. Also Fire beats frost decisively on heavy movement bosses which there seem to be a lot in endgame. If you just standstill 1v1 then, yes, frost is slightly better. But that's rarely if ever the case.
    Last edited by Qnubi; 2018-08-22 at 04:12 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    Every start of an expansion Fire has been OP though, start of Legion, Cata and Mists especially.
    Legion fire was only good if you had the two legendaries to make the spec work. Otherwise it was garbage. And then it got nerfed and was horrible until much later.
    Last edited by Fayolynn; 2018-08-22 at 04:23 PM.

  6. #6
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    every start of an expansion fire lacks crit makes the spec less enjoyable. Numberwise frost is also stronger - and provides a shit ton of utility.

    simcraft says on raw patchwerk fight frost is only about 3-4% better than fire. Maybe you got wrong talents or not the right gear.
    Fire doesnt want Crit.

    atm, fire dps is based on combustion burst window.

    You want Mastery-versa-haste first.

    source: Altered Time forum => https://www.altered-time.com/forum/v...php?f=4&t=6917

  7. #7
    I am Murloc! Maljinwo's Avatar
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    I haven't got my stats yet, but i'm currently pulling 8-9k DPS with a 318 ilvl

    I'd have to see how I do on raids and Mythics yet. But i'm currently using Living Bomb for mob packs and Im enjoying seeing things blow up
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quenthel View Post
    Fire doesnt want Crit.

    atm, fire dps is based on combustion burst window.

    You want Mastery-versa-haste first.

    source: Altered Time forum => https://www.altered-time.com/forum/v...php?f=4&t=6917
    Well that seems kinda stupid, fire should revolve around critical rating, gj blizzard lol.

  9. #9
    I am Murloc! Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaecks View Post
    Well that seems kinda stupid, fire should revolve around critical rating, gj blizzard lol.
    I always go for Crit and then mastery. Since crits allow me to become a pyroblast machine of death
    I dunno, that's the playstyle I like
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    I always go for Crit and then mastery. Since crits allow me to become a pyroblast machine of death
    I dunno, that's the playstyle I like
    It's the more fun playstyle but Pyro blast is pretty weak. The more Duplicative Incineration traits you can run the closer Fireball closes in on Pyro. That's how small the difference really is. Crit chaining with Hot Streaks only really matters when the damage is there to back it up where right now it's not. Fire seems to be dependent on triple stack Duplicative to actually do damage then just stack Haste-Mast-Vers and be a Fireball bot with free Pyros when you can.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullettime View Post
    It's the more fun playstyle but Pyro blast is pretty weak. The more Duplicative Incineration traits you can run the closer Fireball closes in on Pyro. That's how small the difference really is. Crit chaining with Hot Streaks only really matters when the damage is there to back it up where right now it's not. Fire seems to be dependent on triple stack Duplicative to actually do damage then just stack Haste-Mast-Vers and be a Fireball bot with free Pyros when you can.
    I agree, I have all 3 azierites with the fireball trait but I can't even come close to what my frost do.

    I've been able to kill a boss as fire with 14k+ dps with timewarp, this is a heroic dungeon boss with +15% dmg buff due to randoms. But that happened one time.

    with Frost I have slows. I have insane aoe. The only problem I have with frost is that on some bosses, you pull timewarp + all CDs and you end up with 0 brain freezes. I use ebonbolt of course, but sometimes I end up casting like 10+ frost bolts without a single proc except the one I get from Ebonbolt.
    Anyone else felt like this is happening often? Glacial spike is my only dmg, it crits for 40-50k+ while the frost bolt just tickles. frozen orb on CD ofc.
    I feel like pyro needs to be buffed. I really like playing fire over frost, but I can't make my self do it because frost is so much better in almost all ways.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by badilak View Post
    I agree, I have all 3 azierites with the fireball trait but I can't even come close to what my frost do.

    I've been able to kill a boss as fire with 14k+ dps with timewarp, this is a heroic dungeon boss with +15% dmg buff due to randoms. But that happened one time.

    with Frost I have slows. I have insane aoe. The only problem I have with frost is that on some bosses, you pull timewarp + all CDs and you end up with 0 brain freezes. I use ebonbolt of course, but sometimes I end up casting like 10+ frost bolts without a single proc except the one I get from Ebonbolt.
    Anyone else felt like this is happening often? Glacial spike is my only dmg, it crits for 40-50k+ while the frost bolt just tickles. frozen orb on CD ofc.
    I feel like pyro needs to be buffed. I really like playing fire over frost, but I can't make my self do it because frost is so much better in almost all ways.
    By "so much better" you mean a couple % of damage? Fire is reliant on prolonged fights, hero instances and mythic dungeons with ilvl 340 are already way too quickly dead before fire can build up. Frost reaches it's sustain DPS way faster while fire is a slow one that needs high HP mobs to let ignite work and deal damage.

    I would wait for M+ and Raiding before judging it.
    Last edited by Qnubi; 2018-08-24 at 11:34 AM.

  13. #13
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Qnubi View Post
    By "so much better" you mean a couple % of damage? Fire is reliant on prolonged fights, hero instances and mythic dungeons with ilvl 340 are already way too quickly dead before fire can build up. Frost reaches it's sustain DPS way faster while fire is a slow one that needs high HP mobs to let ignite work and deal damage.

    I would wait for M+ and Raiding before judging it.
    You are correct, but the slow seems so important. In some instances ignite spreads to normal mobs. Not only that, in the instance with cannons(can't remember name of it right now) the mobs flee with the dot and ignites other mobs. So annoying. while in frost they will move 2 steps and die from everyone elses aoe.
    Last edited by mmoc9e08bc2e97; 2018-08-24 at 01:55 PM.

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