Warlock buffs near?

[slickwilly]

People mainly play aff because some self felating nerd said it was best. They are simply sheep.

[evertonbelmontt]

not sure what you're talking about man. affliction has better burst than demo, better spread damage, better two or three target damage, better damage on the move. demo has better burst aoe, and possible better aoe overall. the reason why affliction is so good for uldir is fight mechanics. affliction excels at almost all of them. and to overcome fight mechanics you look at the spec's mechanics. look at max potential of single target (affliction), movement (affliction), target swapping (affliction), a fight with aoe, target swapping and movement (affliction), two target cleave (destro with aff close behind), main target with priority adds (affliction) and so on and so forth.

Affliction has better burst than demon, and that's the thing that keeps the spec better for Raiding. The other thing is movement for afflic is better, but doesn't really mean better damage on the move. People overexagerate what movement does for demon, if you are smart none of the HC fights are a problem, and in Mythic I don't have enough experience to tell yet.

Spread damage is a thing, but I covered that. Council and multitarget spread should be affliction's strenght along with the ST, because it's AoE and cleave is oblivious.

Better two or three target damage is a lie. If they are near each other for cleave, your demon will shred it and so will HoG. Better damage on the move is also a lie unless the movement is really extended, like in PVP, if it's sidesteps like anything in HC or M+, you can do just fine being smart and planning ahead.

They have to balance for both M+ and Raiding now, in M+ demon can be king if the buffs keeps coming.

As for raiding: It's not about the fight mechanics, it's about affliction's burst now.
Affliction by nature should do less damage with dots as soon as farm mode starts, because everything dies so fast. But since BfA they "fixed" that by giving afflic a lot of burst so one thing kinda negates the other. It doesn't matter things die fast, you burst so hard the boss that until the other specs starts to keep up with you, the fight is over.

Don't believe me, you can check yourself. Go in a target dummy with afflic and demon for 7min. I did that twice just to check, no flask, food, pots. Demon is VERY close (12.9k against 13.4k from afflic, afflic has 2 more ilvl and optmized gear).

The only Mythic boss I did so far is Taloc, twice as afflic. Got 97 or 98% overall and %, something like that. I'll try demon to see how close they are with "light movement" tonight then.

They also removed a lot of the secondary scalling that makes affliction great in the end, but I guess this goes for demon as well. Not so much because afflic can go really high with everything while demon only really wants haste.

[garonne]

Affliction has better burst than demon, and that's the thing that keeps the spec better for Raiding. The other thing is movement for afflic is better, but doesn't really mean better damage on the move. People overexagerate what movement does for demon, if you are smart none of the HC fights are a problem, and in Mythic I don't have enough experience to tell yet.

Spread damage is a thing, but I covered that. Council and multitarget spread should be affliction's strenght along with the ST, because it's AoE and cleave is oblivious.

Better two or three target damage is a lie. If they are near each other for cleave, your demon will shred it and so will HoG. Better damage on the move is also a lie unless the movement is really extended, like in PVP, if it's sidesteps like anything in HC or M+, you can do just fine being smart and planning ahead.

They have to balance for both M+ and Raiding now, in M+ demon can be king if the buffs keeps coming.

As for raiding: It's not about the fight mechanics, it's about affliction's burst now.
Affliction by nature should do less damage with dots as soon as farm mode starts, because everything dies so fast. But since BfA they "fixed" that by giving afflic a lot of burst so one thing kinda negates the other. It doesn't matter things die fast, you burst so hard the boss that until the other specs starts to keep up with you, the fight is over.

Don't believe me, you can check yourself. Go in a target dummy with afflic and demon for 7min. I did that twice just to check, no flask, food, pots. Demon is VERY close (12.9k against 13.4k from afflic, afflic has 2 more ilvl and optmized gear).

The only Mythic boss I did so far is Taloc, twice as afflic. Got 97 or 98% overall and %, something like that. I'll try demon to see how close they are with "light movement" tonight then.

They also removed a lot of the secondary scalling that makes affliction great in the end, but I guess this goes for demon as well. Not so much because afflic can go really high with everything while demon only really wants haste.

1.) look at vectis. compare the damage of affliction vs demo. thats the best fight to judge two target cleave from in uldir. you can even play it yourself to see. affliction is better.

2.) then there's movement, look at mother. (im not saying demo has no movement capabilities, i'm saying affliction performs better in these scenarios.

3.) i completely disagree about it not being fight mechanics. raiding is all about fight mechanics and what you as a spec bring to those mechanics. if you cannot out bully an encounter then you need to find out what specs are best at making that mechanic the least troublesome.

4.) we agree that affliction has better burst, not really an argument to be had there.
4.b) and its not about JUST burst because destro has one of the best burst in game and it doesnt keep up with affliction on most fights.

5.) my main point to this argument was that you said

If demon gets to be better ST than afflic, afflic has nothing else for it

and i disagree because affliction offers what i said above.

i play demo, i enjoy the spec even with its downfalls, but that doesn't mean that i don't acknowledge these weaknesses and the strengths that affliction represents.

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People mainly play aff because some self felating nerd said it was best. They are simply sheep.

self felating or not, it doesn't change the truth. affliction is a better spec to play in uldir. if you dont believe the nerd anyone can play what they want and prove them wrong otherwise.

[evertonbelmontt]

1.) look at vectis. compare the damage of affliction vs demo. thats the best fight to judge two target cleave from in uldir. you can even play it yourself to see. affliction is better.

2.) then there's movement, look at mother. (im not saying demo has no movement capabilities, i'm saying affliction performs better in these scenarios.

3.) i completely disagree about it not being fight mechanics. raiding is all about fight mechanics and what you as a spec bring to those mechanics. if you cannot out bully an encounter then you need to find out what specs are best at making that mechanic the least troublesome.

4.) we agree that affliction has better burst, not really an argument to be had there.
4.b) and its not about JUST burst because destro has one of the best burst in game and it doesnt keep up with affliction on most fights.

5.) my main point to this argument was that you said

and i disagree because affliction offers what i said above.

i play demo, i enjoy the spec even with its downfalls, but that doesn't mean that i don't acknowledge these weaknesses and the strengths that affliction represents.

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self felating or not, it doesn't change the truth. affliction is a better spec to play in uldir. if you dont believe the nerd anyone can play what they want and prove them wrong otherwise.

1 - I only see destruction warlocks and some afflics there in Mythic. The buffs just got here, we don't have the numbers nor the people giving demon a chance yet for HC, but that fight will always be a Destruction fight. But that's not even the problem, fight in HC lasts 3:30min usually, that's right about when afflic DG is up again, and the initial burst is still there in the recount if we take destro out of the picture.

2 - For mythic you're right, there's no denying it. I haven't done the fight but I've seen what it is and logs are there showing demon way behind. But for HC there's mother fights that lasts 2min. With these short timers you could keep zero movement and demon wouldn't win, never.

3 - I agree, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make. In a world where we have 13 other classes, I'm sure every spec will be good at something if Blizzard does it's job right. We were discussing Demon and affliction DPS and what makes them so far apart from each other. And i'll say again, it's not about fight mechanics, quoting myself here @MotHer: "With these short timers you could keep zero movement and demon wouldn't win, never."

4 - Destro is fucked up by movement much more than demon, I think we both can agree here. It's specially worse if you get targeted by something like sanguine puddles in taloc while bursting, but demon doesn't have that problem and you can actually tank the whole thing with SL after teleporting without wasting your UR if you want to. Destro was also overshadowed by afflic a lot before getting it's buffs, so people invested much more time and effort into afflic, this is starting to change a little bit.

5 - I don't know. Because of the burst, you are PROBABLY right. For demon to surpass afflic in ST it should be given a lot of damage to compensate for that Afflic burst and how things are starting to get down to 2~3min fights.

[Gaidax]

• Mother has barely any real movement, it's all predictable and for most of it you can prepare and counter.
• Taloc pools barely do damage, move to designated spot and pop CDs, then you can nuke away while pools stack. Port away once done.

On M.Taloc I currently hold top parse for Destruction for a week now and that's exactly what I did, I got pool moved to spot, popped CDs and blasted away and it did jack shit to me, stacked it up, moved out. Don't make this some sort of mega mechanic unbearable for Destro.

M.Taloc tho... lul, that's practically an overgrown trashmob really. Not the very best example of how Destruction "suffers" there.

[evertonbelmontt]

That's what I said. But I can only speak to what I've done and so far we're 7/8 HC and 1/8M.

I love afflic, and if demon get buffed even more I have no complains. What I said in my initial post was that I understand why they are cautions with it.
Let's be real, for demon to have better ST than afflic in fights that lasts 2 to 3min, they would need to buff it another round from 10++ % when it already shits on aff in AoE and I'm really enjoying demon for M+.

[Dwill]

Let's be real, for demon to have better ST than afflic in fights that lasts 2 to 3min, they would need to buff it another round from 10++ % when it already shits on aff in AoE and I'm really enjoying demon for M+.

That's simply untrue as Demonology is pretty close if not equal to Affliction in pure single target right now.

[evertonbelmontt]

That's simply untrue as Demonology is pretty close if not equal to Affliction in pure single target right now.

What?

I'm not seeing this, where are the logs? You took things out of context. I know they have equal throughput in theory, but burst favors afflic heavily right now.

[Hkpowa]

Affli stay far above Demon in ST !

I've played Demo for a while now in mm+ ... i was thinking that the 15% buff on SB, DM and dreadstalker would be at least correct...but no
I've done some dungeons +10/11/12 yesterday and tried some stuff modification (365ilvl) ... i have simply no DPS increased !!
Yes Demo have a huge AOE burst with DC and Implosion (if you have time to stack imps on previous pack) but that's all

I've been in the situation where the Blood DK had more DPS than me on 3/4 target that's crazy !!
My overall at the end 10/11k when ilvl equivalent or even lower ilvl finish with 14/15k overall ...

It looks like more higher is the key... lower is Demo :'(
Blizzard really need to do something and 5% overall or 15% on 3spells will not change the game at all !!

So sad because for me Demo is the only Fun Lock spec at the moment

[Deleted]

What?

I'm not seeing this, where are the logs? You took things out of context. I know they have equal throughput in theory, but burst favors afflic heavily right now.

Tbh on patchwork sims Demo > Aff for me... but that could be gear related.

[Dwill]

What?

I'm not seeing this, where are the logs? You took things out of context. I know they have equal throughput in theory, but burst favors afflic heavily right now.

You're claiming that to have better single target than Affliction, Demo would need a buff of 10% to beat them, that's factually untrue. What favors Affliction is its ability to adapt to most situation and its mobility, two things Demo lacks and that is why it stays behind while having a throughput equal to Affliction.

[evertonbelmontt]

You're claiming that to have better single target than Affliction, Demo would need a buff of 10% to beat them, that's factually untrue. What favors Affliction is its ability to adapt to most situation and its mobility, two things Demo lacks and that is why it stays behind while having a throughput equal to Affliction.

You're contradicting yourself HARD. How is it factually untrue if the logs show exactly that? I already stated that in _theory_ they are equal. I can just sim both of them in patchwerk with timers from 2 to 3minutes (and in fact I did).

You then come in and say: "What favors Affliction is its ability to adapt to most situation and its mobility, two things Demo lacks and that is why it stays behind while having a throughput equal to Affliction"

So with that said, look at logs and do the math, it's all there.

[Dwill]

You're contradicting yourself HARD. How is it factually untrue if the logs show exactly that? I already stated that in _theory_ they are equal. I can just sim both of them in patchwerk with timers from 2 to 3minutes (and in fact I did).

You then come in and say: "What favors Affliction is its ability to adapt to most situation and its mobility, two things Demo lacks and that is why it stays behind while having a throughput equal to Affliction"

So with that said, look at logs and do the math, it's all there.

That's your current statement:

Let's be real, for demon to have better ST than afflic in fights that lasts 2 to 3min, they would need to buff it another round from 10++ % when it already shits on aff in AoE and I'm really enjoying demon for M+.

You claim that for Demo to be equal to Affliction in ST, they'd need a 10% buff. I then said that this is untrue because they are already at the same level as Affliction right now, which is factually true.

I don't even understand why you're even bringing logs into this, everyone knows Demo is under Affliction on logs and it is for the reason I stated. I don't know how clearer I can make that statement. I think what you mean is that for Demo to compete with Affliction, they'd need a 10% buff which makes more sense than your previous claim.

[Orwell7]

That's your current statement:



You claim that for Demo to be equal to Affliction in ST, they'd need a 10% buff. I then said that this is untrue because they are already at the same level as Affliction right now, which is factually true.

I don't even understand why you're even bringing logs into this, everyone knows Demo is under Affliction on logs and it is for the reason I stated. I don't know how clearer I can make that statement. I think what you mean is that for Demo to compete with Affliction, they'd need a 10% buff which makes more sense than your previous claim.

Don't be a moron and try to understand not only what each word means individually, but how they shape the sentence together.

There are NO "ST" fight in World of Warcraft. Not in the meaning you're trying to say.
Every boss encounter, be it multitarget, aoe, or a single target, where mechanics take place. These mechanics will fk demo up really bad, that's why it needs to do at least 10% more damage to be equal with Affli on ST fights.

ST fights =/= training dummy fights. I hope you'll understand now.

[Tramzh]

no its F A C T U A L L Y true u cant argue against that bro