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  1. #1

    Thumbs up FistWeave Fight Club ~Grandmasters Only~ Updating for 9.0 shadowlands and beyond

    First things' first... if you're a healer that only hits healing buttons..... GET.. THE.. FUCK...OUT


    Listen


    1% wipes -- are ALWAYS a thing
    Completing a timed dungeon such as MYTHIC PLUS **faster** -- is ALWAYS a THING
    Not dealing damage when everyone is at full health -- is a STUPID THING

    EVERY fight starts off with your raid at full health so you better be doing something... and if you're specifically a MW monk and you're NOT applying that sweet ass 5% physical damage buff to bosses & adds...then you don't deserve to wear the uniform.


    ~Now lets get it on.~
    -=-=-=-=-This guide was written and approved by Samuraijake - Stormrage server - a Top ranking Grandmaster Fistweaver.


    My fellow Brothers n' Fisters, you have the power to beat actual dps players with a proper fisting build and technique while immasculating them with your ability to flesh our revivals and life cocoons. According to the latest college study, women are 78% more attracted to gentlemen (and other women) who are versatile, witty, and creative... therefor, your display of seasoned fistweaving will probably most likely guaranteed Leg sweep your lady guildmates right off of their feets.



    Table of Contents -Hit Ctrl + F and type one of these letter number combinations to take you straight to that section
    1a stat priority
    2b standard rotation
    3c Legendaries
    4d Trinkets ((not in yet))
    5e Tips
    6f Fun Facts
    Future version updates

    Stat Priority - 1a

    INT >> Haste >>Versatility >> Crit >> Mastery doesn't do anything for MW damage)


    Details about Stats

    Below is an example from the Addon "Pawn" that has stat weights for MW damage. Stamina is included because it buffs the damage of Touch of Death.


    Used myself as an example on https://www.raidbots.com/simbot .





    Critical / Versatilty - No special properties but are great MW stats in general.

    Haste - When using Focused Thunder (talent)... when you use RSK you have about .5 to 1.5 seconds to fit a tiger palm in before you RSK. The idea is to have enough haste to lower the Global Cooldown so that when you Tpalm, RSK #2 is ready to go.

    Haste#2 - A rotation that is happening faster allows for more blackout kicks into RSK resets, more auto attack damage, and also buffs Chi-ji auto attacks.

    Haste #3 - Haste lowers the Cooldown of Rising Sun kick, Blackout Kick, and shortens the time it takes for spinning crane kick to complete its damage cycle (same damage... but faster in one button press)


    Mastery - For damage ...this dog shit ass stat does nothing. You may as well stack bonus armor, spirit, or pick your nose instead of stacking this stat. I actually wished that one day blizzard would give healers some attack power with their mastery just the way Tanks get attack power with theirs'. Maybe one day...some day...


    ~~ Base Stats ~~


    ~~Here are the Level 60 base stats Below (recorded every race except Night Elf off of PTR as naked chars with no buffs on whatsoever. As you can see there ARE differences in base stats depending on your race. Later Amplified by things like 5% of your armor type... Celestial guidance weapon buff... etc.







    Standard Rotation Before Haste Breakpoints 2b


    Below is an opener assuming you have the Focused Thunder talent. If not then simply remove 1 rising sun kick out of the initial rotation.




    Thunder brew >> Rising Sun Kick >>x1 Tiger palm >> Rising Sun Kick >> x1 Tiger Palm >> Rising Sun Kick >> Blackout kick (to spend the x3 bkick teachings

    afterwards

    if RSK has 6+ seconds on its spend your blackout kicks for a reset
    if RSK has 5- seconds on it... then tpalm x3 and save your x3 teachings and instead.. use RSK as it comes off CD... then spend the x3 kicks for a LARGE EFFORT TO RESET RSK

    then repeat.


    ^ Even at 0 stacks ((as in without using tiger palm)).. blackout kick can still reset RSK

    There are 4 gambling styles I will look into if you want to be risky on RSK resets , example found below
    (Riskiest)- x0 Tpalms - Blackout kick with no stacks
    (not as risky) x1 Tpalm >>> bkick every time
    (Balanced) x2 Tpalm >>> bkick every time
    (Safest)----x3 Tpalm >>> bkick every time

    There have been times where i tried out the riskiest rotation without using tiger palm.. and my 0-stack-blackout kicks kept proccing. I couldnt stop Rising sun kicking... there were no brakes on that train that day. The "Safe" rotation allows you to fit other spells in such as essence fonts, renewing mists, revival, chiji, and etc if you go down the actual healing fist weave spec.


    Spinning Crane Kick and #of Targets

    +4 or more Targets - spam SPK on cd
    +3 or more targets - RSK on cooldown >>go back to spamming SPK until RSK is off CD
    -2 or less - just stick with normal single target rotation
    *note- based on rng of resetting Rising Sun kick, you can gamble with including RSK >> Blackout Kick (with 0 stacks) >>spam SPkick on 3+ targets.



    ~~ Legendaries ~~ (comming in future update) 3c


    This section will require more time for actual testing due to the nature of the game... BUT! for now, my understanding is that Invoker's will currently provide the highest throughput. Obviously Ancient teachings provides for real fistweaving but it wont add to maximum parses




    ~~ Talents ~~

    Here's a view of usable talents



    The highlighted yellow border talents are the ones that contributed to more damage. For example Focused thunder will provide more damage throughput ((because it buffs Rising Sun kick's cooldown)) but rising mists is obviously the fistweave/heal oriented talent.


    ~~ Covenants ~~ (I'll update this section in the future)

    During beta testing The Venthyr's Fallen Order monks had a bug which allowed the clones to have a duration longer than intended. This caused people on discord to be misled with the "DPS increase" that Venthyr were providing. Night Fae's Fae stomp resulted in the 2nd biggest NON BUGGED DPS increase at the time... but times have changed and blizzard rearranged/rebalanced the covenants. I still went with night fae although Venthyr may also provide a reasonable DPS increase as well. I will be updating this section later down the line as i finish other sections. Will also discuss kyrian and necrolord down the line.


    - - - Updated - - -


    Note- Chi-ji is a dps increase... His auto-attack pecks deal surprisingly good damage (2% of your total damage without much effort)



    Tips - 5e


    1) Throw out hots before combat starts
    2)If you are night fae there is an overhealing absorb from Dreamweaver that you can build before a fight starts (only lasts 5-6 seconds though)
    3) there are times when RSK has -3 less seconds on it.. and you already have x3 stacks of Bkick... use this window to throw out healing GCDs... it is the best time to do it without hindering your rotation too much.



    Fun Facts and Lore about Monks : 6f

    -Chi-ji … is a male... not a female bird... but was a "Chick" at birth.
    -The Mogu enslaved pandas, made the pandas work, and never allowed them to have any forms of weapons. Since the pandaren
    couldn't have weapons... the pandaren resistance trained themselves via their fists (hand to hand combat) … thus creating "Monks"



    THINGS I HAVE PLANNED IN FUTURE UPDATES IN THIS GUIDE6f
    -A.K.A. my To-Do list


    -Perform the x1Tpalm x2 Tpalm and x3 Tpalm rotations with exact timers.
    -Fillers such as fae stomp
    -Scale of 1 to 10 for what kind of fistweaver YOU are 1-being safe damage 10-being world parser
    -1 handed + offhand VS 2 handed weapons.
    -Spinning crane kick damage
    -chi burst vs chi wave
    -Ring of Peace tricks for shadowlands


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+-




    In honor of your comments & responses... I left ^this 1min 37 second video above here.^...this is what you will become once you master the art and obtain as little mastery rating as possible... and to remind you that you are a monk...you are smart for choosing a monk...and ~monk~ is the best class in the game...never let anyone tell you otherwise.

    in the future i will be setting up a stream at https://www.twitch.tv/samuraijake777 no set time or day yet but I'll work on it more as i get time.

    ~SmrJ



    w
    Last edited by Samuraijake; 2021-02-10 at 07:27 AM.

  2. #2
    Deleted
    If you want to translate damage into healing, Mistweaver is the wrong healing spec (outside of a pvp-talent). Hasn't been for a long time. Now, if you accept that and want to reap the bonuses from going into melee at opportune times, fistweaving is a fun and rewarding playstyle.

    I however would never compromise on secondary stat weights soley for damage, it's puny compared to Disc and HPally if you fulfill your primary role in a non-trivial environment.

    Dealing damage in downtimes has nothing to do with fistweaving, that's just good healer gameplay.

  3. #3
    Monk is the best class in the game... this monk forum post inside of the monk forums is to inform monks what they have at their disposal while playing their favorite and best class in the game... we're not here to talk about what other classes do or discuss other avenues... because there's no need to. Thank you.

  4. #4
    Deleted
    It surely is the best class in the game.

    I don't mind the basic damage rotation guide or anything, I mind that you don't put the playstyle into perspective. Monks are not hybrid healers (anymore), they have some tools at their disposal which incentivize going into melee.

    I fistweave since MoP and (after some time of adjustment) enjoyed almost every iteration of it, but I don't want this guide to mislead anyone into thinking that Mistweavers do anything resembling mad deeps while or through healing.

    I really wished that Way of the Crane was a non-pvp-talent and maybe then I could get behind your guide but it's sadly not.
    Last edited by mmoc019c19adc5; 2018-09-03 at 04:01 PM.

  5. #5
    Tested them all and rising mist seems better in my current gear. fistweaving does crap dps and crap healing, why do it besides expeditions - and even then.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by kran1um View Post
    Tested them all and rising mist seems better in my current gear. fistweaving does crap dps and crap healing, why do it besides expeditions - and even then.
    what else are you doing at the start of the fight where 3-4 other healers are already padding the overhealing meters?

    what about down time mid combat where your hots are already traveling around?

    how about hard burn phases where no one is actually needing heals... but a priorty add just has to die before it gets a raid wiping cast off...

    there are things you can always to... to be at 110% efficiency... instead of a "self defeated helpless" mindset

    ~you~ can always do more... rather than expect more of others.

    ~Grandmaster SamJ

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by zanderken3 View Post
    what else are you doing at the start of the fight where 3-4 other healers are already padding the overhealing meters?

    what about down time mid combat where your hots are already traveling around?

    how about hard burn phases where no one is actually needing heals... but a priorty add just has to die before it gets a raid wiping cast off...

    there are things you can always to... to be at 110% efficiency... instead of a "self defeated helpless" mindset

    ~you~ can always do more... rather than expect more of others.

    ~Grandmaster SamJ
    Well in all these cases you will dps yes, like very other MW with ANY talent choice... and you will do almost the same dps, so what is the point of this "built"?
    Only difference in dps would come from using chi-ji on auto-attack mode and FT on rsk. Both are a considerable loss in overall and burst healing compared to any other alternative (chi-ji as heal cooldown/statue/rjw and FT on rem/upwelling <3/Rising mist).

  8. #8
    Sweet guide dude, I didn't know chi ji could be used in that way. Love doing dps while I heal on all my toons

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Caprix View Post
    Well in all these cases you will dps yes, like very other MW with ANY talent choice... and you will do almost the same dps, so what is the point of this "built"?
    Only difference in dps would come from using chi-ji on auto-attack mode and FT on rsk. Both are a considerable loss in overall and burst healing compared to any other alternative (chi-ji as heal cooldown/statue/rjw and FT on rem/upwelling <3/Rising mist).
    Pretty much this...

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by zanderken3 View Post
    what else are you doing at the start of the fight where 3-4 other healers are already padding the overhealing meters?

    what about down time mid combat where your hots are already traveling around?
    Snipe them?

    What else is there to do but to beat them on the healing meter lol.

    I mean, I can understand running a dps build for mythic+, but for raiding, might as well get a dps in and bench you if you're not going to heal and are not going to be optimal for when healing is needed. Haste is just a terrible stat not even worth gearing for at the moment for raids.
    Last edited by Spotnick; 2018-09-09 at 04:37 AM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Spotnick View Post
    Snipe them?

    What else is there to do but to beat them on the healing meter lol.
    ....

    10 characters

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Spotnick View Post
    I mean, I can understand running a dps build for mythic+, but for raiding, might as well get a dps in and bench you if you're not going to heal and are not going to be optimal for when healing is needed. Haste is just a terrible stat not even worth gearing for at the moment for raids.
    there is an int >> haste >> mastery >> verse = crit build from an admin on peak of serenity.. i took out mastery because its worthless in regards to the topic of the thread. Thank you.

  12. #12
    Over 9000! Saverem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zanderken3 View Post
    Rotation so far without haste break points

    Thunder brew >> RSK >>x1 tpalm >> RSK >> x1 Tpalm >> RSK >> blackout kick (to spend the x3 bkick teachings
    I jizz my pants right as I'm about to unleash this in PvP...

    Hide behind pillar > TFT > Mana Tea > Way of the Crane > Roll to target > LS > RSK > TP > RSK > TP > RSK > BOK > maybe RSK again if it procs = entire team healed and opponent dead or near death.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~ Mark Twain
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" ~ Jesus of Nazareth
    "把它放在我的屁股,爸爸" ~ Dalai Lama

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Contender Saverem View Post
    I jizz my pants right as I'm about to unleash this in PvP...

    Hide behind pillar > TFT > Mana Tea > Way of the Crane > Roll to target > LS > RSK > TP > RSK > TP > RSK > BOK > maybe RSK again if it procs = entire team healed and opponent dead or near death.
    This^

    .... God Damn This^

    see this is what i like to see... tyvm for those pvp tips ... its nice to see that mws can knock out some teeth with way of the crane... thank you.

    and you healed your team to full at the same time you say?... just magnificent.

    - - - Updated - - -

    now with bigger and moar gooder pictures with a race n stat comparison...during beta testing i created new toons... went Naked and compared their base Int and agi stats... and there was a 10-15 stat difference between the races... my personal opinion is that draenei provide the best racials for monks but as always...play what race looks the best in monk tier hats.
    Last edited by Samuraijake; 2018-09-10 at 11:04 PM.

  14. #14
    Deleted
    Here are some further possibilities to optimize damage:

    use a Staff, not MH OH for more Weapon DPS
    Azerite Traits can greatly increasy MW Damage especially the RSK WW Trait which adds Damage for every meleeattack -> very synergetic with tp/bok and sck

  15. #15
    The WW azerite trait that boost rsk after 2 boks works also wonders for burst...

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Contender Saverem View Post
    I jizz my pants right as I'm about to unleash this in PvP...

    Hide behind pillar > TFT > Mana Tea > Way of the Crane > Roll to target > LS > RSK > TP > RSK > TP > RSK > BOK > maybe RSK again if it procs = entire team healed and opponent dead or near death.
    No what will actually happen is you get stunned or feared or <insert any CC that is not root> and boom, setup wasted, CD wasted, mana wasted
    Caveat: I'm assuming it's at least 1800 MMR pvp

  17. #17
    Over 9000! Saverem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrCool View Post
    No what will actually happen is you get stunned or feared or <insert any CC that is not root> and boom, setup wasted, CD wasted, mana wasted
    Caveat: I'm assuming it's at least 1800 MMR pvp
    It doesn't work 100% of the time, but I've already won several matches this way.

    If it worked 100%, MW would be the meta and not Disc.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~ Mark Twain
    "The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time" ~ Jesus of Nazareth
    "把它放在我的屁股,爸爸" ~ Dalai Lama

  18. #18
    It's a relatively small burst but really can help your dps teammate getting the kill in 2v2 against dps+heal. Usually peels have been used on your team mate which should me more threatening than you .

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Caprix View Post
    The WW azerite trait that boost rsk after 2 boks works also wonders for burst...
    This is good info and thank you for the heads up, i will be looking for more specific azerite traits to research assuming the raid specific traits dont dominate dungeon traits. I will farm out azerite gear via mythic 0s this sunday on stream for research purposes . Thanks man

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracjin View Post
    Here are some further possibilities to optimize damage:

    use a Staff, not MH OH for more Weapon DPS
    Azerite Traits can greatly increasy MW Damage especially the RSK WW Trait which adds Damage for every meleeattack -> very synergetic with tp/bok and sck
    This is MORE good info and thank you. For now i went for the 2Hander staff option because i found a 340 seabreeze.

    So far the damage modifiers inside of the spells are only based on attack/spell power and not "weapon damage" but i'll checfk out what you're saying and will run tests. to be honest if melee attacks add damage for each attack... and 1handers are faster than 2 handers... wouldnt a 1hander theoretically be better than a 2hander? (because its faster?) ... just food for thought but i'll check out what you're saying later good sir

    ~SmrJ

    - - - Updated - - -

    Forgot to mention, I am looking for any players who have monks at level 120 who can do the following for me

    swap to Mistweaver spec
    remove all buffs...
    and tell me what your base intellect and agility is
    and what race you are.

  20. #20
    High Overlord Axigar's Avatar
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    Get yourself a full set of Swift Roundhouse traits for MW. Select the trait in WW spec and then use it in MW. Your damage should be insane provided you fit two BK in before pressing RSK again. Get yourself a WeakAura to track the Swift Roundhouse buff.

    I wouldn't recommend it in a raid or m+, use actual healing traits then, but for pvp, wpvp and WQs, it's amazing.

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