Azerite Gear officially worse than legion legendaries now.

[barrsftw]

Dude...
These threads kill me.
"I didn't get the piece I need in the first week, therefore the system sucks".
Welcome to WoW, where RNG has been a cornerstone since forever.

At least you can farm near endlessly in M+ for items.
Raids are once a week and that's that.
I didn't get any Azerite gear from Uldir last week, so obv raids are broken and the loot system is the worst iteration ever, right?

Exactly. Old raids are broken too. I just did Lich King and he didnt drop the mount WTF?

[Great Destiny Man]

I'll agree that it would have helped if Blizzard had sent out a clarification on M+ rewards much sooner but Legion Legendaries and Azerite pieces definitely aren't compatible.

Nothing compares to the disappointment of getting a Legion Legendary after weeks (sometimes even months) of doing content and getting a non-optimal piece (especially when the class neutral ones like Prydaz were still fucking awful). Those things had an absurdly large effect on rotations and playability.

In contrast there are multiple ways to obtain Azerite pieces (not just the beloved M+ cache) and getting a non optimal piece is nowhere near as much of a gut punch.

[Jahrastafari]

A subscription made it to the cancel screen!

[Jujudrood]

I'll agree that it would have helped if Blizzard had sent out a clarification on M+ rewards much sooner but Legion Legendaries and Azerite pieces definitely aren't compatible.

Nothing compares to the disappointment of getting a Legion Legendary after weeks (sometimes even months) of doing content and getting a non-optimal piece (especially when the class neutral ones like Prydaz were still fucking awful). Those things had an absurdly large effect on rotations and playability.

In contrast there are multiple ways to obtain Azerite pieces (not just the beloved M+ cache) and getting a non optimal piece is nowhere near as much of a gut punch.

Right.
Legendaries had much more dramatic effects on throughput than Azerite, but with the caveat that you could maybe get multiple legendaries within a week, based on how RNG favored you vs Azerite M_ gear being a one and done.

The actual problem, though, the root cause of this heartache of not getting one on a weekly chance, is that the Azerite gear traits are far too impactful.
Blizz missed the mark on the balancing of them, where some are absolute trash while others can increase DPS by upwards of 10%.
If these traits were closer in balance in terms of separation between the different varieties, it wouldn't hurt nearly as much to use a "sub-optimal" trait because, instead of a 10% DPS loss, it would be like 1%, which is still aggravating to the min/maxers, but much easier of a pill to swallow.

I don't want more ways of getting them, it takes away from their uniqueness and the "special" feeling (given that they are the replacement for Tier sets), but what I do want is them brought down to earth a bit so it's not as big of a deal if you don't get an upgrade.


And to those who don't get it, which are many (mainly the ones who just shit on Blizz every chance they get), this is a balance issue, not a gear availability issue.
Weekly RNG is a thing, it's always been a thing, and it will always be a thing. There's no changing that. The carrot is always on the stick.
It's the balancing of the items that's the issue, and that is what should be addressed before increased odds or guaranteed Azerite, which would only exacerbate the issue of the items being too damn powerful from the jump.
I want M+ to be able to have their own path of gearing independent from Raiding, but I also want M+ to not become a requirement/obligation for standard Raiders.
If Azerite pieces, especially 370-385, were guaranteed each week just for facesmashing your way through an M+5/10, it would be dramatically impactful on raiders, who all don't have the time to farm up M+.

[Northy]

Azerite traits are zzzzzzz

I'll come back when they give me something to modify my gameplay.

[Great Destiny Man]

Right.
Legendaries had much more dramatic effects on throughput than Azerite, but with the caveat that you could maybe get multiple legendaries within a week, based on how RNG favored you vs Azerite M_ gear being a one and done.

Legendaries didn't just affect throughput, a number of them had profound effects on rotations. Just look at how many legendary effects were rolled into some talent trees in the transition to BfA.

Also unless you're focusing on the tail end of Legion where they were made significantly more available then the chance of getting multiple legendaries per week is ridiculously low to the point of being irrelevant. Many people went MONTHS waiting for their BiS Legendaries to drop and if you spent your bad luck protection for your first few items on shit legendaries the temptation was high to just start again with a new 110.

The actual problem, though, the root cause of this heartache of not getting one on a weekly chance, is that the Azerite gear traits are far too impactful.
Blizz missed the mark on the balancing of them, where some are absolute trash while others can increase DPS by upwards of 10%.
If these traits were closer in balance in terms of separation between the different varieties, it wouldn't hurt nearly as much to use a "sub-optimal" trait because, instead of a 10% DPS loss, it would be like 1%, which is still aggravating to the min/maxers, but much easier of a pill to swallow.

Or we could, you know, buff sub optimal traits to be closer in power to the most powerful traits. Nerfing it to the point you're mentioning would make the whole thing so uninteresting that they may as well just make Azerite gear into stat sticks and nothing else.

Also the impact of not having your BiS azerite traits does not compare to lacking both your set bonuses and ideal Legendary pieces in legion. That was a far more punishing scenario.

I don't want more ways of getting them, it takes away from their uniqueness and the "special" feeling (given that they are the replacement for Tier sets), but what I do want is them brought down to earth a bit so it's not as big of a deal if you don't get an upgrade.

Why would they feel special if you nerf their power so far as to be almost unnoticeable?

And to those who don't get it, which are many (mainly the ones who just shit on Blizz every chance they get), this is a balance issue, not a gear availability issue.
Weekly RNG is a thing, it's always been a thing, and it will always be a thing. There's no changing that. The carrot is always on the stick.
It's the balancing of the items that's the issue, and that is what should be addressed before increased odds or guaranteed Azerite, which would only exacerbate the issue of the items being too damn powerful from the jump.
I want M+ to be able to have their own path of gearing independent from Raiding, but I also want M+ to not become a requirement/obligation for standard Raiders.
If Azerite pieces, especially 370-385, were guaranteed each week just for facesmashing your way through an M+5/10, it would be dramatically impactful on raiders, who all don't have the time to farm up M+.

All I'd advocate is maybe adding some kind of Bad luck protection for Azerite gear for those who suffer too many weeks of not receiving Azerite gear from their respective sources (PvP, M+, raids). Beyond that I have to disagree on the points mentioned.

[Molis]

"It's Official"

WoW has been a wait for gear game since the first 5 man ever run.

People act like this is a new and novel concept.

[Jujudrood]

Legendaries didn't just affect throughput, a number of them had profound effects on rotations. Just look at how many legendary effects were rolled into some talent trees in the transition to BfA.

Also unless you're focusing on the tail end of Legion where they were made significantly more available then the chance of getting multiple legendaries per week is ridiculously low to the point of being irrelevant. Many people went MONTHS waiting for their BiS Legendaries to drop and if you spent your bad luck protection for your first few items on shit legendaries the temptation was high to just start again with a new 110.

Absolutely, and that was a big part of why that system sucked so hard.
I saw some people get 2 in one day during Nighthold (in the same raid, no less... stupid RNG), while I rocked out freakin' Sephuz's and Ekowraith because they were the only two I got that were useful as tank/heal/dps until about half way through Nighthold when I got the WG/rejuv ring (which got nerfed very shortly after).
It was a shit system to dish them out to players, I think we can all agree on it.

Or we could, you know, buff sub optimal traits to be closer in power to the most powerful traits. Nerfing it to the point you're mentioning would make the whole thing so uninteresting that they may as well just make Azerite gear into stat sticks and nothing else.

Also the impact of not having your BiS azerite traits does not compare to lacking both your set bonuses and ideal Legendary pieces in legion. That was a far more punishing scenario.

I would be fine with this; I wasn't stating that they should be nerfed but merely pointing out that the traits are too far apart, making some desired while others are loathed. I don't want to scale them down to nothing, but I also don't want a massive gap between them; that is the real problem, the gap in power.
Buff them all, sure, just as long as they get closer, because at the end of the day, you get 3 of these items with 2 throughput and 1 defensive/utility trait, so that's a possibility of 9 traits. With a fairly decent gap between two of them for most classes in a vacuum, it gets much worse when comparing all 9 of any given 3 pieces.

Why would they feel special if you nerf their power so far as to be almost unnoticeable?

Kinda goes with the last; I don't want to neuter them, I just want them closer so not getting your "ideal" one doesn't hurt as bad.

All I'd advocate is maybe adding some kind of Bad luck protection for Azerite gear for those who suffer too many weeks of not receiving Azerite gear from their respective sources (PvP, M+, raids). Beyond that I have to disagree on the points mentioned.

I would be more than fine with some kind of alternative BLP to help these along.
If they get balanced closer, it wouldn't be as painful to not get one for a stretch, and knowing that something in the background is nudging one closer your way would be nice.

Again, like I said, it's the power gap between traits that causes the shake up, and reducing that (by bringing up the lower ones) would go a great distance in helping alleviate these pains around them.
Of course, there's also the trait unlocking issue, but that's an entirely different ball of wax...

[araine]

I'm starting to dislike the Azerite gear.

I almost get to 22 on my neck to unlock another trait, and I get an upgrade in that socket - so now at 22 no new trait.
Same thing happened at 21, the slot moved up on an item.

I feel like I'm chasing a moving target... seems very frustrating.

That moving target is a longtime historical part of MMO's always keeping you running the rat race never allowing you to catch what you want.

[grexly75]

These threads get really old really fast. Not sure if it's millennials or not but I can only imagine what some of the player base now would have been like in Vanilla or even TBC. Forty players competing for loot using DKP or whatever, hell, you'd be lucky to get 2 pieces of Tier 1 or 2 a month. Now there is loot literally everywhere and yet people still complain. If it's not the exact pieces of gear with all the best traits then people aren't interested it seems. "But I read that I must have BIS gear and traits to be competitive, I want to be top dps and show off my leetness, I want to be fully geared immediately damn it!"

I wonder what people would do if they got really lucky with RNG in the space of a month and got every item of gear they wanted at a really high level? would you sit in a major city on your 0.1% drop mount and strike poses? how long would it before you realised that nobody gave a crap and then it dawns on you that you no longer have any motivation to do anything anymore because you got everything you wanted?

Exactly 100% this^, makes one wonder why people like the OP they play games like this..

[simonlvschal]

The Azerite system is officially worse than legion legendaries now.

Opened my chest and was shocked to see that I only got a pair of 380 trash gloves.

I was expecting one piece of Azerite + a chance at 2 other items.

It was never messaged by blizzard that they reverted the cache.

M+ players like me, there's literally no guaranteed drop source of azerite you can farm, you're stuck behind a time gate hoping for a chance once a week. This is further made worse by the fact that even if you get a piece of azerite gear it could have garbage traits on it.

So now its not going to be uncommon to see people sitting in all 380+ gear with 340 helm/shoulders/chest. It prevents me from being competitive.

The odds are so terrible- this is worse than legion legendaries. Blizzard really needs to either allow Azerite to drop at the end of the dungeon OR guarantee 1 piece from the chest.

nope. its far better. Lendary u had to farm for and only get a chance of getting the one u had to use. Azerith gear is amazing on the other hand. cause its super easy to get. and it can be found in raids and dungeons

[Nyel]

nope. its far better. Lendary u had to farm for and only get a chance of getting the one u had to use. Azerith gear is amazing on the other hand. cause its super easy to get. and it can be found in raids and dungeons

- Azerite gear doesn't forge

- Azerite gear can't be obtained in Mythic+

- Azerite gear has half a dozen specific traits, some of which are restricted to specific kinds of content (PvP, raids etc.)

- You have to spam your inventory with it because for every spec you need different items (3x4 or even more)

- Unlocking traits in higher rings takes forever and feels pointless

Farming the Azerite gear you want + need is not easier than getting your preferred legendary. It all boils down to dropluck.

The Azerite system is maybe the worst designed system WoW has ever had.

[kevincuomo]

Azerite is the biggest cancer to this game we have ever seen. Just take it all out i hate everything about it.

[Whatever Dude]

I'll be serious here, even if I hated the Legion legendary system, I at least was EXCITED when a good one dropped for me.

Not a single Azerite armor upgrade has made me anything but annoyed. Losing traits or even a +30 ilvl piece not being an upgrade is quite possibly the dumbest game design I've witnessed in the 14 years I've played this game on-and-off.

[schwarzkopf]

That moving target is a longtime historical part of MMO's

Not at all - within any expansion, the target has always been forward until BfA.

[Mafic]

That moving target is a longtime historical part of MMO's always keeping you running the rat race never allowing you to catch what you want.

That isn't true.

Progression used to mean something in older MMORPGs.

[schwarzkopf]

Azerite is the biggest cancer to this game we have ever seen. Just take it all out i hate everything about it.

Useful solutions might be more helpful, nothing wrong with the whole concept of Azerite and Azerite gear.

A few tweaks and it would be just fine.

[simonlvschal]

- Azerite gear doesn't forge

- Azerite gear can't be obtained in Mythic+

- Azerite gear has half a dozen specific traits, some of which are restricted to specific kinds of content (PvP, raids etc.)

- You have to spam your inventory with it because for every spec you need different items (3x4 or even more)

- Unlocking traits in higher rings takes forever and feels pointless

Farming the Azerite gear you want + need is not easier than getting your preferred legendary. It all boils down to dropluck.

The Azerite system is maybe the worst designed system WoW has ever had.

there is no Azerith traits that is locked to pvp lol. and getting your needed azerith armour is super easy. i already for instance had my 3 Bis armours in the first week. after 120.. multiple people i know got their best in slot super fast to. majority of players have their bis.

[Nyel]

there is no Azerith traits that is locked to pvp lol. and getting your needed azerith armour is super easy. i already for instance had my 3 Bis armours in the first week. after 120.. multiple people i know got their best in slot super fast to. majority of players have their bis.

Oh lucky you. BiS Azerite is rng based. You can get every piece within 3 drops or 100 drops without one of the BiS pieces. It's as bad as rng Legendaries.

[Mafic]

So this is their plan with Azerite gear.

1. Buff the underperforming Azerite traits. Especially buffing the Azerite traits that are spec specific.

2. Bringing down a few of the outliers

3. Adding in more Azerite traits that are more interactive than dull passives and also being class and spec specific.

Now, we do not know which time line this all will happen but I think I can take a guess.

They can buff and nerf Azerite traits with hotfixes. But changes to existing Azerite traits by removing/adding new ones probably will occur in patch 7.1

Newer Azerite traits probably come down the road.

To build upon Azerite traits they really need to look at the unlock requirements as that is a big stumbling block of the system.