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  1. #21
    Was playing around with it, and I find it kind of odd that my Demonbolt hits just as hard as my affliction Shadowbolt and my destruction Incinerate. The cast time is 3x as long, yes we get demonic core procs to make it instant, but my big hitter is hitting just as hard as filler spells for the other specs.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Jahrastafari View Post
    Damage modifier buffs don't mean shit when you design every encounter with constant, heavy movement and then force a spec to hard-cast almost everything in their arsenal.

    It just boggles my mind that they just completely re-designed Demonology and they designed it with a kit suited for raid encounters circa-2005, rather than 2018.

    Look who is running things in the real world performance, melee classes (who are immune to movement), Beast Master Hunters where literally everything is instant, and Affliction Warlocks.

    As long as Demonology and Destruction have to stand still to cast anything meaningful, they're always going to be shit.
    Pretty much said everything that was on my mind. Demonology wasn't revamped with the current paradigm of raiding in conscious. Blizzard could do well to take a look back to MoP Destro or even WotLK at this point.

  3. #23
    Just did normal uldir again on my warlock, demonology as always, serious depressing being 2k or more below everyone else even with a higher item level. Even more depressing when the fight requires lots of movement, then its even worse.

  4. #24
    Stood in the Fire Azarak's Avatar
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    10-15 maybe, 5% was either a cruel joke or proof that Blizzard has no fucking clue what they're doing. Even comparing demo to JUST the other 2 warlock specs it should have been obvious that demo needed a bigger buff than destro, not exactly the same. Fucking awful balance attempt.

  5. #25
    idk man, i dont think you guys are completely wrong, but the over exaggeration is pretty high in here.

    no movement:
    are you guys actually taking the right talents to counteract this? DS while used by the pet is a spell we have to cast thats instant (albeit 1 min cd)
    demonic calling or power siphon, both spells which help with movement, the latter more so. Power siphon -> db -> db. thats 3 gcds if you have 1 or less shards.
    speaking of db, we can pocket stacks which we gain a guaranteed 2 every 20 secs.
    Soul Strike anyone???
    do you guys actually use your portal? and use it efficiently?
    put all these things together and if you want a mobile spec demo has it.
    look at affliction which is what i think ppl are comparing demo to, youre constantly casting UA and SB, then there's haunt every ~17 secs. corruption, agony and SL if you take make affliction more mobile but youre looking at 3 gcds every 15-20 sec of movement. look at demo if you take soul strike, thats 4 gcd's every 20 sec (2 SS and 2 DB). no need for the over exaggeration.

    no burst:
    demo scales extremely well with haste. we don't have the same peaks as aff and destro but we also dont dip and stay down for so long. After hero is done and gone, we still have tyrant again another 1.5 mins. if you time this right with 4 Dbs you can have out a lot of pets buffed (including yourself) and if you have the supreme commander trait thats Intel which is basically 660 Int on a 370 piece for 15 sec. thats about 8-12% damage increase right there depending on how much intel you have.

    with that said above, no the 5% wasnt enough. and its emphasized even more when as a spec we have nothing that is truly ours in Uldir. none of the fights are "our fights" as the tools we bring dont compare to our counterparts. destro has cleave and affliction has spread damage. affliction also has single target dps and destro imo has the best of the three (in my experience, for my toon) when it comes to burst damage. another damage increase won't fix the problem, but put a bandage on the spec that'll probably be removed when the next raid encounter comes out. what demo needs is some fine mechanical tuning which i hope 8.1 can fix.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by garonne View Post
    idk man, i dont think you guys are completely wrong, but the over exaggeration is pretty high in here.

    no movement:
    are you guys actually taking the right talents to counteract this? DS while used by the pet is a spell we have to cast thats instant (albeit 1 min cd)
    demonic calling or power siphon, both spells which help with movement, the latter more so. Power siphon -> db -> db. thats 3 gcds if you have 1 or less shards.
    speaking of db, we can pocket stacks which we gain a guaranteed 2 every 20 secs.
    Soul Strike anyone???
    do you guys actually use your portal? and use it efficiently?
    put all these things together and if you want a mobile spec demo has it.
    look at affliction which is what i think ppl are comparing demo to, youre constantly casting UA and SB, then there's haunt every ~17 secs. corruption, agony and SL if you take make affliction more mobile but youre looking at 3 gcds every 15-20 sec of movement. look at demo if you take soul strike, thats 4 gcd's every 20 sec (2 SS and 2 DB). no need for the over exaggeration.

    no burst:
    demo scales extremely well with haste. we don't have the same peaks as aff and destro but we also dont dip and stay down for so long. After hero is done and gone, we still have tyrant again another 1.5 mins. if you time this right with 4 Dbs you can have out a lot of pets buffed (including yourself) and if you have the supreme commander trait thats Intel which is basically 660 Int on a 370 piece for 15 sec. thats about 8-12% damage increase right there depending on how much intel you have.

    with that said above, no the 5% wasnt enough. and its emphasized even more when as a spec we have nothing that is truly ours in Uldir. none of the fights are "our fights" as the tools we bring dont compare to our counterparts. destro has cleave and affliction has spread damage. affliction also has single target dps and destro imo has the best of the three (in my experience, for my toon) when it comes to burst damage. another damage increase won't fix the problem, but put a bandage on the spec that'll probably be removed when the next raid encounter comes out. what demo needs is some fine mechanical tuning which i hope 8.1 can fix.
    Yeah, the problem with demonology is that they just didn't take the right talents. rolls eyes

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Jahrastafari View Post
    Yeah, the problem with demonology is that they just didn't take the right talents. rolls eyes
    you clearly didnt read, but continue to roll your eyes, maybe you'll be able to see how constructive your post was.

  8. #28
    This is my sentiment as well. Against other, skillfully played classes, I'm not going to win any ST-only fights. However, mix in some adds, and things begin to change. I will say movement-wise I feel the spec is better than Destro and a little more turret-y than Aff.

    Personally, I am OK with the flat 5% boost, but I would like a little more oomph with some of our ST abilities and feel we could still stand another flat boost of 5% and still not be an outlier. The spec is infinitely more interesting to play than the other two (IMO) and I'll tick with it until I am told (again), "we prefer you to play something else."

    I will say I would LOVE for Axe Toss to function as an interrupt if a target is immune to stun - I shouldn't have to sacrifice the pet my abilities and damage are centered around to be able to help with the plethora of interrupts required in M+.

  9. #29
    Not enough. Same with shadow priest buffed...

  10. #30
    No, for Demo 5% was not enough, it needs another 5% and then to see what's up. I am always very conservative at these things, but even I think that tuning it got was not enough. Demo simply has no meaningful cheese like Aff or Destruction, so it needs brute force instead.

    It also needs some Azerite traits buffed too on top of that, as they are overall awful.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2018-09-14 at 07:46 PM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    No, for Demo 5% was not enough, it needs another 5% and then to see what's up. I am always very conservative at these things, but even I think that tuning it got was not enough. Demo simply has no meaningful cheese like Aff or Destruction, so it needs brute force instead.

    It also needs some Azerite traits buffed too on top of that, as they are overall awful.
    Agreed, and address the damn bugs. I tried Demo on H-Mother and the spec was just bugging out. Didn't get both cores from dogs, if I got one at all (I mostly did not). Imps weren't doing anything. Standing there man.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Styxz View Post
    Agreed, and address the damn bugs. I tried Demo on H-Mother and the spec was just bugging out. Didn't get both cores from dogs, if I got one at all (I mostly did not). Imps weren't doing anything. Standing there man.
    Lol i play Demo since BFA started ... i've never seen bugs like this xD The only bug "Solved" was the demon from portal and inner demon with low level...
    Demo doesn't need 15% damages buff ... Damage are fine at the moment but the spec is too slow and they really need to fix the ramp up time that's all.

    HoG 2 shards or DB pop 3 shards ?
    Dreadstalker instant ?
    Tyrant Instant ?
    Vilefiend with no cost shard/ instant - Bigger CD ?

    Change the Doom talent : Doom deal XXXX damages over 20s. When Doom deals damages you have 5% to summon a random demon -
    If Doom kill the target you have 100% to summon a Doomguard.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Voshon View Post
    Was playing around with it, and I find it kind of odd that my Demonbolt hits just as hard as my affliction Shadowbolt and my destruction Incinerate. The cast time is 3x as long, yes we get demonic core procs to make it instant, but my big hitter is hitting just as hard as filler spells for the other specs.
    But why would you ever use it without the DC proc in the first place?

  14. #34
    It was far too little. Just look at the heroic logs between aff and demon.
    Top parse for each boss in heroic Uldir.
    Taloc: Aff 14.5k Demo 11.9k
    MOTHER: Aff 19.3k Demo 12.8k
    Fetid: Aff 23.4k Demo 16.7k
    Zekvoz: Aff 19.3k Demo 15.8K
    Vectis: Aff 17.8k Demo 13.0k
    Zul: Aff 21.7K Demo 17.5k
    Mythrax: Aff 18.1k Demo 12.7k
    G'Huun: Aff 20.0k Demo 14.8k

    Destro is ahead of demo in most fights, but still pretty far behind aff. I desperately want to play demo, but I can't hurt my raid with these bad numbers. At least in legion, when I didn't want to play aff, destroy was still very viable. Now that aff is at least tolerable to play, there is no reason to not play it.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by talwynn View Post
    It was far too little. Just look at the heroic logs between aff and demon.
    Top parse for each boss in heroic Uldir.
    Taloc: Aff 14.5k Demo 11.9k
    MOTHER: Aff 19.3k Demo 12.8k
    Fetid: Aff 23.4k Demo 16.7k
    Zekvoz: Aff 19.3k Demo 15.8K
    Vectis: Aff 17.8k Demo 13.0k
    Zul: Aff 21.7K Demo 17.5k
    Mythrax: Aff 18.1k Demo 12.7k
    G'Huun: Aff 20.0k Demo 14.8k

    Destro is ahead of demo in most fights, but still pretty far behind aff. I desperately want to play demo, but I can't hurt my raid with these bad numbers. At least in legion, when I didn't want to play aff, destroy was still very viable. Now that aff is at least tolerable to play, there is no reason to not play it.
    Brah, talk to garonne. He says they just need to take the right talents and suddenly everything is fine.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by madmossy View Post
    Just did normal uldir again on my warlock, demonology as always, serious depressing being 2k or more below everyone else even with a higher item level. Even more depressing when the fight requires lots of movement, then its even worse.
    Early uldir seems to be like worst case scenario for demo at the moment. High movement single target fights which is really plays against everything demos can do well at the moment.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Jahrastafari View Post
    Brah, talk to garonne. He says they just need to take the right talents and suddenly everything is fine.
    you really dont know how to fucking read.

    with that said above, no the 5% wasnt enough. and its emphasized even more when as a spec we have nothing that is truly ours in Uldir. none of the fights are "our fights" as the tools we bring dont compare to our counterparts.
    .

    This is what i said, but continue to be a lying buffoon.
    Last edited by garonne; 2018-09-17 at 04:04 PM.

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