How to get rid of Voidform?

[krl]

Are you serious ?

Shadow Priest with 40% haste baseline and 50 stacks of Voidform (so nearby 100% haste) was dealing approximately the same amount of damage as all the other specs in the end of legion, and you think that with 20% haste we would be insanely broken ?

Damn son...

I basically agree with you, but Ion said in the AMA last week that they do in fact balance like this: niche-oriented specs are balanced to reach the throughput of the other, "complete" specs in their respective niche situations. For example, if spriest can cleave 3-4 targets for the whole fight or if elem can turret into recurring adds spawns, they should reach the DPS of the other specs. If resto shaman can heal a tightly packed raid at low life, they should reach the HPS of other healer specs.

Of course this leads to rogues, hunters and afflocks to absolutely dominate most tiers as niche-less, "complete" specs.

[Xanesh]

*snip*

I really like some of these ideas actually. Particularly the void creatures, mobility, survival and utility suggestions. Exploding apparitions sound great too.

[Ophenia]

I basically agree with you, but Ion said in the AMA last week that they do in fact balance like this: niche-oriented specs are balanced to reach the throughput of the other, "complete" specs in their respective niche situations. For example, if spriest can cleave 3-4 targets for the whole fight or if elem can turret into recurring adds spawns, they should reach the DPS of the other specs. If resto shaman can heal a tightly packed raid at low life, they should reach the HPS of other healer specs.

Of course this leads to rogues, hunters and afflocks to absolutely dominate most tiers as niche-less, "complete" specs.

Yeah but the problem if that if there ever is a council-type encounter with all targets stacked, then we'll be ... still below most of the other specs, as they are single target with heavy cleave, or master in multidotting.

There isn't any situation where we shine, right now. And be sure that if there is any encounter where we do, then we'll feel the nerf hammer (cf Xavius).

[Jervaise]

How about we start with a real, thought out mastery instead of a versatility - ?

New Mastery: Searing Paranoia. Your damage over time spells radiate X% of their damage to all targets within 10 yards of your target

(or if we don't want passive aoe) to all targets that have at least one of your damage over time spells.

[wysimdnwyg]

TLDR version: Go back to what we were at the end of MoP.

[krl]

Yeah but the problem if that if there ever is a council-type encounter with all targets stacked, then we'll be ... still below most of the other specs, as they are single target with heavy cleave, or master in multidotting.

It being a problem is your opinion, Ion implied that it is by design. Some specs are just not designed to perform and he even brought the subject of the *hybrid classes* in his answers, an abomination of balancing that was supposed to be abandonned !

[Skulljin]

Since I got back into the game, I have been playing more PVP than PVE. Overall, I like how Shadow plays and I think that Voidform makes for a great mechanic even though it is kinda sad that I missed playing it during its prime. That being said, the longer I ponder about it the clearer I feel about it. The only real issues I see with Shadow Priests, for me, that is, are the annoyance of MB/VB CDs, the long ramp up time (which feels much less annoying depending on talent choice) and how easy to shut down they are with interrupts.

The last part really is the worst offender to me here, but that might as well be a L2P Issue because I know that people are pretty good at fake casting once they have more experience than I do.

[Alanar]

I didnt like Legion shadow priest themewise or gsmeplaywise.
At first itfelt new and fresh, but realy fast aftherwards I missed the unknown part that shadow had through all these years. Giving that void theme to it so obviously made it less interrsting and not mysterious at all which kinda ruined it already.
I miss that shadow vampire priest tbh... , so once again I support you yvealle.

[Prometheous]

Honestly, this is why I think blizzard has such a hard time balancing our class. We have a very vocal minority who make absurd claims, such as "many priests want X ability removed." No, the majority of us do not want to see our CORE class fantasy removed, only a select few who find it hard to figure out and execute. Legion spriest is generally regarded as the best it has been, but that doesn't mean it had NO issues. VF needed tweaked at best, but asking for it to be removed because you don't like the risk/reward gameplay is only adding to the issue, not helping it.

[ttylol]

No, the majority of us do not want to see our CORE class fantasy removed, only a select few who find it hard to figure out and execute.

But Voidform is a recent/retrofitted class fantasy... So your justification would also apply to players that didn't want pre-Legion class fantasy removed, which this thread has been discussing???

And there's nothing hard to figure out or hard to execute about BFA Shadow lol, it's just hard to enjoy...

[ChairmanKaga]

But Voidform is a recent/retrofitted class fantasy... So your justification would also apply to players that didn't want pre-Legion class fantasy removed, which this thread has been discussing???.

There was no pre-Legion shadow class fantasy.

[Prometheous]

There was no pre-Legion shadow class fantasy.

Exactly this, we had a role but not really a theme. Dotting and being a mana battery isnt a theme. Insanity/void is a theme.

[Powerogue]

The main problem with voidform is it makes soloing as a shadow priest a living hell. Build up to void form, kill a mob, and it's over before you can run to the next one, so you start over. So you're basically in "wet noodle form" 90% of the time.

Oh sure you could try to leverage your AoE potential and pull a lot of mobs at once, but you're a priest, not a paladin, you die in seconds, even with the shield up.

I haven't played my spriest since legion, and don't intend to unless those issues from legion are thoroughly fixed. Only struggled through the leveling (hardest alt to level, bar none) for the extremely fun class quests.

[Ophenia]

There was no pre-Legion shadow class fantasy.

Exactly this, we had a role but not really a theme. Dotting and being a mana battery isnt a theme. Insanity/void is a theme.

People are really considering that "being insane LUL" is a class-fantasy ?
Before, we were drawing the powers from the void, playing with whispers to madden people. Now, we are ourselves crazy, and when we're not, we're trying to be, simply in order to throw void bolts everywhere.
Thematically, we're not in control of our character. Is that really what you enjoy ?

Class fantasy yeah.

[Deleted]

There was no pre-Legion shadow class fantasy.

Exactly this, we had a role but not really a theme. Dotting and being a mana battery isnt a theme. Insanity/void is a theme.

Vampiric shadow magic with a penchant for tormenting peoples minds?
That's a theme

Insanity/void is a gimmick.

[ChairmanKaga]

People are really considering that "being insane LUL" is a class-fantasy ?
Before, we were drawing the powers from the void, playing with whispers to madden people. Now, we are ourselves crazy, and when we're not, we're trying to be, simply in order to throw void bolts everywhere.
Thematically, we're not in control of our character. Is that really what you enjoy ?

Class fantasy yeah.

Move them goal posts.

[Lodreh]

How to get rid of Voidform?

Have you tried playing Discipline?

[Makabreska]

Ya I miss Cascade too, if I could redesign the class I would definitely include it.

Cascade was the reason I was taken to mythic Kromog

Honestly, I don't know what I want from shadow right now. Current iteration for me is more fun than in Legion, but I see all the shortcomings. Really hoping for a nice surprise in 8.1, and if that doesn't work, oh well...

The main problem with voidform is it makes soloing as a shadow priest a living hell. Build up to void form, kill a mob, and it's over before you can run to the next one, so you start over. So you're basically in "wet noodle form" 90% of the time.

Oh sure you could try to leverage your AoE potential and pull a lot of mobs at once, but you're a priest, not a paladin, you die in seconds, even with the shield up.

I haven't played my spriest since legion, and don't intend to unless those issues from legion are thoroughly fixed. Only struggled through the leveling (hardest alt to level, bar none) for the extremely fun class quests.

And it's still so much better than at the start of the Legion. Back then we had no Misery and VE was hitting like a wet noodle and required both dots to hit the target. Leveling in Legion made me almost quit the spec, BfA wasn't really that bad with pulling multiple mobs.

[Prometheous]

Have you tried playing Discipline?

Or like any other class lol

These people who HATE how a class feels seem to always forget that there are 35 other specs to try.

[Deleted]

I was thinking about what kind of talent changes I would personally want to see and as a result removal of Voidform wouldn't necessary need such drastic means.

I would categorize talents into:
15: Single vs. AoE: FotM(Single) -- SI(Wack) -- SW:V baseline into voidform replaced with Misery(AoE)

45: Situational DMG: ToW(Execute) -- Misery replaced with StM(General Burst) -- DV(AoE Burst)

75: Insanity Gain: As is

90: Insanity Utility:As is; Lingering Insanity(General, reworked to be based on Insanity "spent" or "consumed") -- Mindbender(ST) -- VoidTorrent reworked to work like an hostiles beams work, projected out of a character = AoE.

100: Voidform: Legacy(Faster) -- DA(Instant) -- [NEW]DevouringPlague(No voidform)

I felt that with such changes some real choice would be brought into several talent tiers and also a possibilty of avoiding Voidform altogether is available.