ATTENTION SHAMAN: Just Reroll. Blizzard hates you.

[Deleted]

lmao 'rework'

on what planet is robbing earthshock to pay lightning bolt, and adding two dull ass talents with minimal gameplay impact a 'rework'

[Kagdar]

They didn't mention Elemental mobility, which is nonexistent .

They mentionned it during the AMA, Ion said that being immobile is the design behind ele shaman. That they want every spec to have strengths and weakness. He said that to compensate for the lack of mobility he gave shamies Tremor Totem back to give us some utility.

THANKS ION! We got Tremor totems guys everything is fine!

[Ragnarocket]

They keep mentioning that Elemental should be a very immobile spec that does high damage like a turret. They've said that for ages. Exactly what in our kit encourages that kind of gameplay or makes anyone think we'd be stronger if we didn't have to move? The fact we have LB/CL/LvB all with cast times? Because we don't have anything on the move except our Shock spells?? How does that make a "high damage, low mobility" spec? That just makes a boring "caster" spec with low damage.

[Voltsmasher]

If I have to be a turret then I stand by what I have said before:

Our spell casts are all baseline of 2+ seconds. Lightning bolt feels like a punishment to need to cast for filler while worth while spells feel like you are charging the DBZ spirit bomb.

If we can't move then we need spells that can complete their casts in-between movement and right now that just isn't the case.

[granatfarfar]

I actually like these changes, very wierd that Echo of the Elements isn't baseline at this point tho I have to say. And if they want to make us a turret like class, then I guess we have to embrace a skill like Rune of Power?

[The Stormbringer]

They didn't mention Elemental mobility, which is nonexistent and no news of Enhancement yet. Can't wait for them to just shuffle damage ratios around a bit instead of completely overhauling the spec which is completely FUBAR without their artifact abilities.

They should just give Shamans the ability to cast Lightning Bolt while moving again. It was a very welcome and useful addition back in MoP.

- - - Updated - - -

They mentionned it during the AMA, Ion said that being immobile is the design behind ele shaman. That they want every spec to have strengths and weakness. He said that to compensate for the lack of mobility he gave shamies Tremor Totem back to give us some utility.

THANKS ION! We got Tremor totems guys everything is fine!

Maybe if they tripled the Tremor Totem radius and effectiveness?

[Austilias]

The problem with Elemental (as well as Demonology Warlocks, and to a lesser extent MM Hunters) is that they are 110% committed to making these specs immobile, while giving them nothing in return in an expansion (not to mention boss fights and PvP situations) that punish immobility. This is exacerbated by the most mobile specs also doing great DPS (Eg. BM Hunter).

This is not just a class/spec issue, but one of fundamental game design. It's eerily similar to Heroes of the Storm where older and less mobile heroes get simply outclassed by the newer, hyper mobile heroes.

[Darleth]

anyone want to explain why this guys opinion is anymore valid than the usual "blizz hates X class" threads we get every single expansion?

He was a theorycrafter, which means he did stuff like creating simulations for you to use via raidbots/simulationcraft. He is basically somebody that explored everything in the elemental spec to its very core. And if you would just read his whole stuff you know why it is somewhat valid and he does make good points.

[Ragnarocket]

The problem with Elemental (as well as Demonology Warlocks, and to a lesser extent MM Hunters) is that they are 110% committed to making these specs immobile, while giving them nothing in return in an expansion (not to mention boss fights and PvP situations) that punish movement. This is exacerbated by the most mobile specs also doing great DPS (Eg. BM Hunter).

This is not just a class/spec issue, but one of fundamental game design. It's eerily similar to Heroes of the Storm where older and less mobile heroes get simply outclassed by the newer, hyper mobile heroes.

This is pretty much the gist of it. Hunters/Mages get all sorts of ways to be mobile and avoid damage while still allowing them to deal more damage than an immobile spec even while both are sitting still. Elemental needs it's numbers buffed and if the mobile classes have a lot of ways to stay on the move, we should have options to stay rooted in place and deal our damage. Obviously not all the time but at least once in a while. Why does a mobile class like Mage still get something like Ice Block which let's them just ignore a mechanic once in a while?

[jellmoo]

The problem is that pigeonholing the spec into an immobile turret is fine *if* it's offset by some other benefit. But having less mobility *and* less damage than other specs is silly to the extreme.

The quick fix is just a flat damage increase across the board. The issue isn't where the damage is coming from (ES or Lightning Bolt). The issue is a numbers one.

Then, take the time to fix the mechanics of the spec. At least this way they'd be competitive and not a lacklustre choice.

[Ele man]

The biggest problem with ele spec is that dev is overvaluing the value of aoe dps and CC.

In raid, aoe is not often, but what is the significance of being strong here?
DEV should give a stronger ST DPS to ele.

[annimossity]

I'm amazed at the level Shaman are right now and how its still under the radar, been playing since vanilla and this is my first QQ post about class balance. I rerolled Hpally 2 weeks and everything I do is significantly better then my Shaman so far. +10 key was easier with beacon of virtue and HPS much higher with with lower ilvl. Even with Niche resto clumping which doesn't happen often in raids other classes still perform better and have an easier time with aoe healing. I tried elemental and just found the numbers lacking in several raids with 368 ilvl, ret offspec is performing much better for me.

Was hoping for some good 8.1 changes but I don't see these helping enough. In fact they hurt the only thing ELE was really good at in pvp was setting up burst with earth shock but nerfed that..... I'll still hope for better changes but as it stands I just shelved my shaman and won't even bother doing WQ's on him.

[Voltsmasher]

Last time I saw a class in such disrepair was with warlocks back when they were crap all around. They got it fixed by going for blood and causing a huge toxic shit storm.

Maybe that's the only way to get blizzard to do anything effectively in class design?

[Ragnarocket]

Last time I saw a class in such disrepair was with warlocks back when they were crap all around. They got it fixed by going for blood and causing a huge toxic shit storm.

Maybe that's the only way to get blizzard to do anything effectively in class design?

Dot Shocks again? I mean that's a lot of work to effectively do...

Or maybe we can try the shaman massacres where everyone makes low level shaman and kills them in the main cities.

We could just come up with something new!

[BlueRemedy]

I would like express my admiration to everyone in this thread who is capable of gaging the net effect of this changes by sheer mental force.

Remember, though, that the intent of this sort of change is to balance the spec. This usually means, by Blizzard standars, to bring the spec closer to the middle of the pack. Turning any spec into a FotM requires very little effort (like someone said, +20% to all dmg and you are done) but the tuning in players heads and the real tuning the game calls for is very different... hence the complaining I guess.

Lastly, regardless of the tunning, at this stage of an expansion this is as far as they are probably going to get to a "redesign" of a spec. They say it time and time again that big "re-works" of class/spec features are usually left for big pre-new-expansion patches while during the life cycle of an expansion you get as much tuning as they see fit. The fact that there are so many changes, to the point that there are hole talent re-designs, is a testament that they do agree that the spec needed a LOT of work.

"U goiz shoud wait and see. ItS JuSt BeTa"

[oplawlz]

Last time I saw a class in such disrepair was with warlocks back when they were crap all around. They got it fixed by going for blood and causing a huge toxic shit storm.

Maybe that's the only way to get blizzard to do anything effectively in class design?

It's really hard to even do that to get them to fix their game anymore - the mods lock down all remotely similar threads on hot topic issues and force people to post in one rambling nonsense thread that they can ignore.

[Stormspellz]

That is definition of rework,add couple more talents and tune dmg,what the hell did you expect? Talent that instantly kill everything? lol gtfo

survival becoming melee is a rework, this is not a rework, its a glorified hotfix.

[NihilSustinet]

Seriously.

Was holding out hoping Blizzard would come through with a rework, instead you get a couple new talents and damage moved around slightly.

GG.

the post also says that those arent the only changes planned, and even they might change. little soon to be making posts like this. what am i saying, this is MMO-C, every other post is a retarded shitpost.

[Voltsmasher]

The fact that there are so many changes, to the point that there are hole talent re-designs, is a testament that they do agree that the spec needed a LOT of work.

I'm not sure how everyone feels specifically, but the fact that the state of the class was known before launch and early into beta is the reason I'm ticked. We shouldn't need to wait on another expansion for feed back we gave before this one's release to be put to good use.

- - - Updated - - -

It's really hard to even do that to get them to fix their game anymore - the mods lock down all remotely similar threads on hot topic issues and force people to post in one rambling nonsense thread that they can ignore.

Can mods lock down a Twitter storm to the blizzard world of Warcraft account?

[Tyrilion]

Not even on the ptr yet guy give blizz half a chance