Resto Shaman is dead.

[kosajk]

Are u not killing the raidbosses because of ur lack of heal? Or is it simply because u wanna be top of meter?
I don't care if im not on top as long the boss dies. Usually my spirit link saves the entire raids because someone fucks up a mechanic, rather be that guy than someone machine spamming chain heal like the TBC days..

utility is grate but utility is for oh shit moments and not whats make group alive for longer periods of time,
healing m+ above 6 with shitty afixes in medium geared offspec within pugs is not really enjoyable to say the least.
Trying to get into m+ group in mainspec if everyone thinks you are shitty by bad development is not best expierence to,
even if you can carry your weight and have tons of utility but equally geared DH or BM hunter will do 20% dps more becose reasons...

[slime]

Worry not dear Shaman, you still bring hero. Or lust if you prefer the company of pigs, cows and rotting corpses.

[Deleted]

Imho Shaman is a strong and fun class. There are two issues: Single target heal and spread heal.

The spread heal is definitely our weakness and will continue to be our weakness.

As I posted somewhere else I would suggest to make earth shield baseline and place primal elementalist there. And probably swap it with wind rush totem or earthan wall totem to have it in a different row.

This wouldn't affect raids and pvp a lot. The earth shield would buff tank heals and the earth elemental could tank some trash in mythic+ and provides an 40% dmg reduce for yourself. You could easily heal your tank while the elemental is tanking all the mobs. The elemental can't tank bosses and has a 5min cool down so it won't be to OP.

Simple changes, doesn't make shaman OP and helps mythic+ without affecting pvp and raiding too much.

Other buffs I could imagine:
- Reduce mana costs of chain heal
- Reduce base cast time of chain heal
- Increase jump distance of chain heal to 30 yards
- Double healing of healing tide totem in 5 player groups when not in PVP
- Change mastery so that it will have its maximum value at 25% HP. Not at 0% HP.

[shammypie]

We're definitely a little undertuned right now but the spec is not dead. More like on life support. It suffers from a stigma which isn't helping. Besides Spirit Link we're not really bringing anything special to the raid right now, maybe Zul where we can purge the adds or pop Tremor if shit goes sideways but that's about it. Ancestral Protection Totem is unique I guess, it doesn't count towards a combat res and could be useful on a fight like Zek'voz but it's certainly not mandatory. We used to be the kings of stacked healing, but right now the way it is when the raid is stacked, it simply means we have a chance to compete with other classes. It's not really our niche anymore.

People see that the top (WF) guilds aren't using Resto Shaman much, if at all, so what they take away from that is that Resto Shaman is bottom tier. If you're in a lower end guild player skill is going to start mattering more than what class they're playing, so it's better to bring a skilled Shaman over a bad Monk or Priest, etc. But still I can definitely see a lot of guilds being like "well Method didn't use a Shaman so we won't either", which is silly but hey.

HPS is one thing and I guess to an extent it's useful to gauge if you're doing the appropriate amount of healing for the content but it's not telling me who healed what, or where that healing went. Sometimes it's pure padding. On heroic especially HPS is irrelevant since it's so easy to overheal an encounter and you're just along for the ride to get geared for Mythic.

That said I think Shaman definitely needs some help, even Blizzard admit our mastery is undertuned. I'm also not too impressed that they took away AG and gave us Earth Shield as a talent. Not even a new improved or more interesting version of Earth Shield, just the same old spell it was when it got introduced in 2.0.

The thing I take biggest issue with right now is that we're also grossly underrepresented in Mythic+ and possibly the worst healer to bring for high keys. We can't dispel diseases or poisons (and Blizzard have a serious hard-on for both debuff types this expansion) and we can't cheese any mechanics, we have no external for tanks (still the only healer without one by the way), we have no immunities, etc. In lower keys we're fine and we can help with CC/interrupts/purges which compensates a bit for our lower throughput, but on higher keys you're basically gimping the group by bringing a Shaman healer. I actually feel sorry for my guildies who have to take me to get my weekly 10 done right now because I feel like such a burden. I do hope it changes and I'll await what 8.1 has to bring for us... but I've played Shaman a long time so I'm not going to get my hopes up too much.

HPS is THE metric man and always has been. Just like DPS is THE metric for DPS and to an extent tanks. Also on Zul Priest is way better than shaman because they can mass dispel, but most guilds use a blood elf (sucks to be alliance). I will admit tremor is highly useful in a lot of fights and dungeons this expac but requires you to drop it before shit hits the fan (thanks pvp) so often doesn't help you.

- - - Updated - - -

Other buffs I could imagine:
- Reduce mana costs of chain heal
- Reduce base cast time of chain heal
- Increase jump distance of chain heal to 30 yards
- Double healing of healing tide totem in 5 player groups when not in PVP
- Change mastery so that it will have its maximum value at 25% HP. Not at 0% HP.

yeah this would make the problem lopsided it would fix it unless you want to be forever tied to casting chain heal over and over again. 5 expansions is enough man and it still hasn't changed. Go beat another dead horse. These aren't good changes

[Quickpaw]

Planning to level my Resto Shaman next. Going to come back here and post all my 90% healing logs so all of you calm down with all this craziness.

[shammypie]

He knows what he's talking about, I have been a Shaman as long as anyone on these forums, and we've never been worse, yes, NEVER.

not the first time I've heard this in all these years as well

[Deleted]

Planning to level my Resto Shaman next. Going to come back here and post all my 90% healing logs so all of you calm down with all this craziness.

Does not make any sense btw.
Since rankings do just compare the same spec.

[shammypie]

Planning to level my Resto Shaman next. Going to come back here and post all my 90% healing logs so all of you calm down with all this craziness.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...3&type=healing

there is one for you. Barely beat a priest who had 10 ilvls on me and parsed 15% below me.

- - - Updated - - -

Does not make any sense btw.
Since rankings do just compare the same spec.

you take the amount healed by the person and someone who healed the same hps of another class and compare the difference in percentile. That will tell you how a class is performing on any given fight.

[Ragnarocket]

copypaste from other doomsday thread

Hate me all you want, I think elemental is atleast decent. Or my raid are all terrible players. Which they are not at all.

Elemental can use some fixes but it's not a dead spec. Stop making it worse than it is or just learn to play it.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...TdDMC/#fight=9

And you posted your elemental logs in a thread about resto shaman...because? You wanted to show off your numbers?

There are some honest gripes with Shaman right now in M+ that I'm having. Anything above 6 or 7 feels very difficult for me as a Shaman, especially this week with so many mobs in Teeming and the fact they hit harder too. I legitimately have to spam my Healing Waves/Surges with Undulation and make sure to keep Riptides going just keep a tank up. Meanwhile my Holy Priest at a similar gear level just throws a renew and a couple of heals/flash heals and if they start getting low then Holy Word: Serenity. God I am jealous of Holy Word: Serenity...

Oh and let's not forget Guardian Spirit in case for some reason those spells don't work. Had an accidental pull of TWO large groups in Motherlode+6 (off topic - not a fun one this week...teeming Motherlode is the worst) before the end boss in there and Guardian Spirit was the only way I kept the tank alive. Had I been a Shaman? Probably would have tossed out a Spirit Link, prayed to whatever force was listening that it would do the job, and spammed the crap outta Healing Surge. As I sit here and write that I'm honestly not sure it would have done the job.

[Deleted]

Planning to level my Resto Shaman next. Going to come back here and post all my 90% healing logs so all of you calm down with all this craziness.

How is getting a 90th percentile parse gonna prove anything though? It just means you peformed higher than 90% of other Resto Shamans.

[lithiax]

Hi,

I have been playing resto shaman since Cata. I just love the class and spec so I stick to it.
The spec has been to the ground and all god mode several times. I used to raid hardcore and be benched on fights in Fireland just because the class was bad for the instance.
I have noticed that often we start off pretty bad in a new expansion compared to other classes and we end up OP.
It's funny how it repeats itself. But I would not say resto shaman is dead.

I am only raiding 6h/week now and I am 355 ilvl with my stats pretty wrong because of of rng jesus.
My healing team is not ideal at the moment so it adds a bit of challenge. we are 5/8H working on Zul tomorrow.
I personally have a really hard time to keep up with mana and i feel my single target healing is still weak.
Also, nerf Holy priests plx

What I could see for us :
- Water shield back or some kind of regen not tied to crit (all the other classes have some sort of regen cd or buff)
- Downpour and htt seem weak compared to the other classes, id buff those slightly
- Make CBT not a replacement of HST. I mean who is going to CBT with expac nerf and if you have Swelling stream azerite power?
- Our single target is still life savior with mastery if you triage heal low hp ppl but HS seems weak compared to HW and is wayyy too mana draining.

I could probably think of other things but yeh, wanted to contribute to this thread.

Szam-Kazzak-EU former Szilia-Illidan-US

[Deleted]

1, Resto is very strong in arenas.
2, Healers are pretty balanced in raids (more balanced then Tanks or DPS)
3, Check representation/parses in mythic Uldir below. True, you dont need 2-3 resto shamans in raid as you might want multiple paladins, druids, monks or priests.
But have that one shammy for utility and solid overall healing is not desperate or delusional at all.

Paladin Holy 5,257
Priest Holy 4,876
Druid Restoration 4,874
Monk Mistweaver 4,376
Shaman Restoration 4,349
Priest Discipline 3,888

Compare this to tanks:

Monk Brewmaster 3,682
Death Knight Blood 3,455
Paladin Protection 1,853
Druid Guardian 1,330
Demon Hunter Vengeance 1,237
Warrior Protection 700

On myth + they are not that used, I agree here, but saying that they are dead..
We can say this about 2/3 of classes.

[Charge me Doctor]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...3&type=healing

there is one for you. Barely beat a priest who had 10 ilvls on me and parsed 15% below me.

10 ilvls is a lot tho. With least overheal. It's a really good parse that clearly shows that shaman is capable of... you know... being better than other healers, granted they kinda sucked in this particular case, but oh well.

[Ragnarocket]

Hi,

I have been playing resto shaman since Cata. I just love the class and spec so I stick to it.
The spec has been to the ground and all god mode several times. I used to raid hardcore and be benched on fights in Fireland just because the class was bad for the instance.
I have noticed that often we start off pretty bad in a new expansion compared to other classes and we end up OP.
It's funny how it repeats itself. But I would not say resto shaman is dead.

I am only raiding 6h/week now and I am 355 ilvl with my stats pretty wrong because of of rng jesus.
My healing team is not ideal at the moment so it adds a bit of challenge. we are 5/8H working on Zul tomorrow.
I personally have a really hard time to keep up with mana and i feel my single target healing is still weak.
Also, nerf Holy priests plx

What I could see for us :
- Water shield back or some kind of regen not tied to crit (all the other classes have some sort of regen cd or buff)
- Downpour and htt seem weak compared to the other classes, id buff those slightly
- Make CBT not a replacement of HST. I mean who is going to CBT with expac nerf and if you have Swelling stream azerite power?
- Our single target is still life savior with mastery if you triage heal low hp ppl but HS seems weak compared to HW and is wayyy too mana draining.

I could probably think of other things but yeh, wanted to contribute to this thread.

I like a lot of your ideas - I really do miss water shield now that you mention it. They brought back Earth Shield it'd be kinda nice to see the water globules back in action too. Downpour I get why it's not crazy but HTT I agree feels lackluster these days. CBT not replacing HST would be nice. I have 3 Azerite Traits with Swelling Stream so I'm sure as heck not changing that out. And yeah the single target stuff needs to feel only SLIGHTLY worse than other classes at high HP levels rather than cripplingly bad. Stop making mastery be our "balance". I don't care if I can heal for slightly more than normal when the tank is nearly dead. I'd like the tank to be...well...NOT nearly dead!

[BlueRemedy]

10 ilvls is a lot tho. With least overheal. It's a really good parse that clearly shows that shaman is capable of... you know... being better than other healers, granted they kinda sucked in this particular case, but oh well.

Good to know that you can be better than people who suck ass at their class and allow you to close a 15-25% mechanical gap.

Like my neighbor has a nice car, but what if he crashes it, then mine will look a lot better! Potential!

[Stormbreed]

not the first time I've heard this in all these years as well

And each time there was truth to it. But USUALLY you could justify it, often with RESTO as the spec that still worked.

That day is over.

All three spec's have never been worse.

[Deleted]

1, Resto is very strong in arenas.

As someone who plays almost zero Pvp, I'm really wondering what makes resto so op there. The main concerns for Pve are, that there is a lot of hard casting, slow spells, weak single target healing and weak def Cds. Wouldn't all that be a problem in Pvp too, or do the Pvp talents make resto so much better there? Why can't they just nerf those then and balance resto properly for Pve?

[BiggestNoob]

The lack of resto throughput is really killing it in M+ now. It's a struggle to sustain 14-15k hps for an entire dungeon, which is easy for every other healer, and that's what happens in +10 dungeons with affixes like the ones we have this week. The toolkit is weak, the raid CDs are meh, and the general throughput is bad enough that it's already basically useless for any hard content. Mastery doesn't help here, Ion needs to actually break down and buff the damn spec.

Earth Shield needs to be baseline at +15% healing because giving up a talent choice to have it costs us general healing viability, a problem 0 other healing specs have. HTT needs to be more effective in 5 mans because it really doesn't do anything. HS/HW need a fat buff so that single target healing isn't absolutely trash. On higher keys when someone is targeted by a DoT, we can't easily just top someone off and go back to the tank or take care of the group or DPS, in fact some of the DoTs tick harder than HS/HW spam can manage even with Undulation and proper use of Tidal Waves & Flash Flood. No need to be as good as HPallys are at dealing with this situation, but it shouldn't be a likely death for the tank or a DPS in this situation. Resto should be viable, even in 15+ keys in current gear, like every other healing spec is.

[La]

The lack of resto throughput is really killing it in M+ now. It's a struggle to sustain 14-15k hps for an entire dungeon, which is easy for every other healer, and that's what happens in +10 dungeons with affixes like the ones we have this week. The toolkit is weak, the raid CDs are meh, and the general throughput is bad enough that it's already basically useless for any hard content. Mastery doesn't help here, Ion needs to actually break down and buff the damn spec.

Earth Shield needs to be baseline at +15% healing because giving up a talent choice to have it costs us general healing viability, a problem 0 other healing specs have. HTT needs to be more effective in 5 mans because it really doesn't do anything. HS/HW need a fat buff so that single target healing isn't absolutely trash. On higher keys when someone is targeted by a DoT, we can't easily just top someone off and go back to the tank or take care of the group or DPS, in fact some of the DoTs tick harder than HS/HW spam can manage even with Undulation and proper use of Tidal Waves & Flash Flood. No need to be as good as HPallys are at dealing with this situation, but it shouldn't be a likely death for the tank or a DPS in this situation. Resto should be viable, even in 15+ keys in current gear, like every other healing spec is.

Resto used to have eh healing with amazing utility and cds that made up for it in raids. But now it doesn't have the healing or the CDs, and it absolutely suffers hard in M+

[Deleted]

if any of the shaman specs need a nerf. it is Resto.


this thread is dumb.