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  1. #161
    I liked the rotation more in Legion but I like throwing bombs more than dropping traps on top of people.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Kwaai View Post
    You're really misreading what he wrote:
    Not if you read the whole thing, no.

    FpicEail is rightfully counting pet damage as ranged damage.
    yeah, but that was the same as in Legion, so no shift towards ranged there, which is his claim. Which is wrong when we see it's the same as in Legion.

    As an aside, if you equip a bow instead of a polearm you won't lose 80% of your damage because Mongoose Bite/Raptor Strike aren't 80% of your damage.
    Well we got auto-attacks as well. Taking away the pet-damage which isn't changed since Legion, melee-attacks do that much of the damage. Did you see the point how melee interacts with Wildfire Bomb so it's the melee-attacks that makes it do additional percentage of the overall damage?
    Not that it's viable, but I was just pointing out that a single ability's weapon requirement is what makes SV a melee spec.
    Yeah, Raptor Strike and Mongoose Bite has defined the melee-part of the hunter for 12+ years now. Do you know what really defines a melee-spec? Auto-attacks. Not auto-shot.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by godofdun View Post
    Enhancement shaman have a similar ratio of melee to ranged as survival in terms of the number of abilities, no one's saying they are a ranged spec in disguise. If the shaman isn't stormstriking his damage is crap, if the survival hunter isn't hitting raptor/mongoose his damage is also crap. This discussion has been ridiculous for a few pages now.

    I'm sorry for those that liked it more when it really was a ranged spec, but I'd be more sorry to see it reverted to that.
    Yeah, Outlaw Rogue too. Besides, FoK is also ranged attack right? People are just sad that Survival isn't ranged anymore, I can understand people are letdown by it. But it's time to move on. I miss my beloved Marksman from Legion going into BfA, but times change, so we move on.
    Zandalari music for BfA. Pure GOLD!

    Tortollan will kill WoW.

  3. #163
    Dreadlord Kelthos's Avatar
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    I enjoyed Survival in Legion and I also enjoy it in BfA. I wish they would rework Kill Command's animation and give it a new name so it feels a little different... or work flanking strike into filling the same role somehow. Other than that, I've loved it for two expansions now.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyris Flare View Post
    How about Sv critics start directing some of their energy towards making MM not suck? A far more important cause atm that everyone shares!
    Why play or worry about MM as a ranged hunter when you can just play BM 4Head
    Prot Warrior 2004-2008 Hunter 2008-????

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Sastank View Post
    Why play or worry about MM as a ranged hunter when you can just play BM 4Head
    And if you don't like BM? It feels too spammy to me.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by godofdun View Post
    And if you don't like BM? It feels too spammy to me.
    I don't like BM either but hey it works and does damage so. Maybe another class is right for others instead while they wait for MM. Every class is "Spammy" because they all have an ability to spam to spend/generate
    Prot Warrior 2004-2008 Hunter 2008-????

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Baredgrylls View Post
    That quote right there is enough to get FpicEail banned, where are the moderators at in this place? He had admitted he has no interest in contributing to this thread/topic/community and his only desire is to harass everyone until blizzard gives him back his favorite toy.
    I've already contacted mods and their response was basically "sorry we've just been so busy" it's what happens when mods are volunteers unfortunately, so I don't particularly blame them.

    The truth is FpicEail is an absolute sociopath; he is Bepples on the official forums and is infamous in the hunter forums for derailing the same survival threads and admitting to it there too. He posts the same long winded complaints there. Every survival thread across any medium, expect him to show up because he literally has nothing better to do than piss off current melee survival players like they were the ones who made it melee in the first place.

    He thoroughly derailed the survival Hunter community feedback sticky on Reddit which is absolutely frustrating because that is one of the most important places for melee survival to submit feedback for changes; Blizzard has flat out admitted in the past they browse the Reddit threads for feedback too and half the stickied Reddit thread was just him complaining the same things that he has done here.

    I'll probably get infracted for posting this but honestly if I get in trouble before he does this forum has officially become an unuseable cesspool.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Sastank View Post
    Why play or worry about MM as a ranged hunter when you can just play BM 4Head
    Personally I will just play another character if BM is the only option for m+, the only content i care about. Thankfully SV is perfectly fine

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Yes, I find it funny that you have to resort to saying other people strawman, while you do it yourself in every post.
    You still cannot demonstrate a single instance of strawmanning on my part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Then you say that I deflect the arguments(which is strawmanning per definition)
    No it isn't.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

    "an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent"

    Basically, pretending they said something else and arguing against that fake argument instead. It would be like seeing I said "Survival shifted towards ranged", concluding that I was really saying "Survival is a ranged spec", and arguing against that instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    You take one example up from logs, lets say Scorpyron(nice example btw)
    You think I'm cherrypicking? I picked the most quintessential AoE fight of Legion. But if you don't like that, here's one from a fight much more similar to Zul:

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=18

    Oh, look. ~20% damage from ranged attacks including pet damage (not Flanking Strike because you needed to be in melee to cast that). So it's still nowhere near 8.0 levels and Fpiceail is still right! (no

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    And then you have full ST kit where they are almost non-existant.
    Clearly that's not the case because even on ST fights you still have a significant amount of your damage coming from sources that aren't melee-only... moreso than Legion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Then you bring up Kill Command, which you can use from range, and that pet shouldn't really be accounted for.
    Are you seriously insinuating that I was the one saying pets shouldn't count? Check the thread again. If it can be used from ranged... it's a ranged attach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    You also bring in the logs that favors what you say(which is very, very few but cred for taking in the anomaly's), but you don't realize it's true for mass-aoe only(or do you?). When it comes to ST, light cleave, 60-85% of all the damage you do(without accounting pet lol) is from melee-abilities.
    Huh? Did you not literally just say a couple sentences earlier that on full ST fights the ranged damage is "non-existent"? What do you think Fetid Devourer is? I chose that fight because it's the most mechanically void Patchwerk fight in the instance. That's how damage comparisons are done. Find the most basic, single-target fight in the instance. I did link a Zul log, but that was long after I linked the Devourer log. The Devourer log is actually about as favourable to melee as it gets. I wanted to remind you what the least-favourable one looked like too.

    If you think I'm cherrypicking you're welcome to go through the mythic 100% logs and find the one that's more favourable to melee than Devourer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    TLDR: Survival is melee(outlaw as well), not even close to being ranged.
    Being just 2 abilities away from being a fully ranged spec is about as close as you can get, really, besides... well... 1 ability. But Survival is more "ranged" than any other melee spec in the game. I find it funny I'm having to remind you of that because usually I'm having to convince people that Survival is not, in fact, a hybrid spec that lets you play at ranged whenever you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    A big portion of the damage is the pet, you have to add that to the rogue abilities to if you want to compare them. And even if we go by your logic that the pet doesn't count, the "ranged" abilities for the Outlaw rogue only "beats" the Survival one with 2%. The idea when I asked you was if the Outlaw Rogue is more towards ranged, since you say Survival is. And you then use 5 paragraphs to try to make it so the Outlaw Rogue is less "ranged" than Survival? LMAO. Yeah, congratulations.
    What does "add that to the Rogue abilities" even mean?

    Wow, you really are going for another strawman. At no point did I say that the pet shouldn't count. I do think it shouldn't count as melee because the Hunter does not have to be in melee range to do it. Stop trying to make it look more favourable for melee by arbitrarily exluding 1/3 of the spec's damage from the count, and stop trying to pin that on me; that was your idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Btw, the two top logs shows that the Rogue got 23% of the damage from ranged abilities, while the Survival have 13%. Yeah, you are certainly correct....
    No, Survival has 53% from ranged capabilities. The melee-only mechanics are auto-attack and Mongoose Bite, which sum to 47%. You can count the procs/trinket stuff as melee if you want but that doesn't significantly change the picture.

    Also, another thing you're missing is that Survival's ranged capabilities are independent of the melee spells for the most part. If you stayed at ranged for the whole fight you would still have almost all of that ranged damage. That's not the same for Outlaw because their ranged attacks require procs/combo points from their melee abilities. So even if Outlaw weren't losing on ranged ability count and ranged damage proportion... Fpiceail is still right!

    Quote Originally Posted by The7 View Post
    Oh, thank you for telling me what I should find fun. You should find a job on Blizzard, the BfA team will love to have you around!
    Maybe it was out of hand but when I read "SV is the most fun spec" or "SV is the best designed spec" I interpret it as an opinion being presented as fact. I'm sure you love it and I'm sure others do too. But clearly for the majority of players it isn't the case. If you want me to subconsciously add an "IMO" to your post: sure, that's fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by NutellaCrepe View Post
    Conversation is over, this kid has no real argument.
    ^^^ This is what giving up looks like

    Quote Originally Posted by godofdun View Post
    Enhancement shaman have a similar ratio of melee to ranged as survival in terms of the number of abilities, no one's saying they are a ranged spec in disguise. If the shaman isn't stormstriking his damage is crap, if the survival hunter isn't hitting raptor/mongoose his damage is also crap. This discussion has been ridiculous for a few pages now.

    I'm sorry for those that liked it more when it really was a ranged spec, but I'd be more sorry to see it reverted to that.
    Just as with Outlaw, I don't know much at all about Enh. But looking at its Icy Veins and the top Fetid Devourer log this doesn't appear to be true. Rockbiter and Flametongue are the only abilities with a range, and that's a) only 20 yards and b) only ~11% of your damage total. Far, far, far lower than Survival in both ability count and ranged damage proportion. There is the Ascendance talent... but that's a long cooldown.

    Would you be sorry to see current Survival have its remaining abilities made ranged but otherwise keep all of the other mechanics as is? Because I see a whole lot of defense for the playstyle but nothing actually hinging on the spec remaining melee.

    -----------
    @Baredgrylls @Happyducky

    You tell me who's derailing.

    One of us is discussing Survival, just as they were at the start of the thread... when responding to someone else... with the thread explicitly concerning Survival.

    The other two are just calling for that one to be banned.

    Also, how does one derail a Reddit discussion? It's a totally different format.

    Survival is an important issue to me and I'm allowed to post about it in threads where its relevant. End of story.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    ^^^ This is what giving up looks like
    Every post in the past week, you've proven you have no true handle on what survival is as a spec in BFA. Additionally, you have admitted that you will whine about it until the spec changes to reflect what you want it to be. There's no argument, no logic, only entitlement.

    I do give up on arguing with a man child who's walls of text only add up to the saddest argument - "But, this is not what I want."

    I called you out on that post, and your response was a sad attempt at getting the last word in.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by FpicEail View Post
    Snip
    So you don't know what deflection is, fine.

    I wrote that it would be my last post, pointed out your flaws once more, and I was hoping to move on. But fine.

    I am questioning the thing about the pets because you didn't include them first. Later on you suddenly included them when I pointed out that much of the damage is from pets. Then suddenly you take them back into the equation. I proved you wrong, then you changed it so it would "favor" you more. But pet damage we had in Legion too, so there is no shift to ranged from that. So what you are practically saying is that Legion had a lot of ranged damage after all. And if you take other logs, which seems to be the trend when you are wrong, then I can say that Alpha Predator is making the pet do so much extra damage, but half of the logs use Viper's Venom, and that is procced by melee-attacks.

    No one has said that Fetid Devourer is a good ST fight, so stop lying(ops, I found a proof of you strawmanning). And I have already proven how much damage that comes from ranged attacks. I was right, once again.

    That's not the same for Outlaw because their ranged attacks require procs/combo points from their melee abilities. So even if Outlaw weren't losing on ranged ability count and ranged damage proportion... Fpiceail is still right!
    Survival do to And LOL at bold text!
    Wildfire Bomb, Wildfire Infusion, Serpent Sting(when Viper's Venom) etc.

    Lmao you don't even know how it plays. I think we are done here :P
    Zandalari music for BfA. Pure GOLD!

    Tortollan will kill WoW.

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