Prot: It's ridiculous we have to wait until 8.1

[Deleted]

The problem has been and always will be the community.

Random player that does LFR cant complete M+5 spams the forums about "tank balance" because he saw the MDI tank doing something.

It also helps that after 15 years i really dont give a fuck as much as i used to and since i can complete a 10-13 without a problem i couldnt care less.

Of course m+10 isn't hard anymore 3 month after release. And no, it is not right when there are huge gaps between tanks, healers or dds. Sure every class and spec has its strong and weak side, that is intended. But a tank should never struggle with his key roles: keep aggro and migate the incoming damage. We seirously lacked in that part. And its not the lfr community that is complaining here. Several high m+ healers made comparrisons between tanks. This thread have some of these comparrisons, just search for it.

We dont need to be top of the line, but we need to not be a burden if you take us over an blood dk. Thats just shitty balancing and should be fixed as soon as possible. This goes for every class and spec. If you invest time and effort, you should be able to reach the top or at least get close. If that isn't given you fucked up the balancing and with it the basics of a MMORPG. The bad playstyle of prot didn't make it better. And I am happy for every player in my raid who recieves a needed buff for his favorite spec.

Sure you can go around and say the mid tier content (what a +10 is) is doable, but does it have to be a pain in the ass? Sure you can do your +10 once a week, but wouldn't you rather enjoy doing it? Sure a competent group fixes a lot, but wouldn't it be nice if you could fix a mayor mistake of a teammate and preventing a wipe?

I dont know you, but I like to pull my char to the limit and playing prot warrior feels like driving a porsche in a F1 race. No matter how well I do, this car will never win me a trophy.

[Yhcti]

So for anyone not looking to compete in world firsts, I imagine Prot is strong? I mean currently I do struggle tanking, very much so compared to my Paladin and DK. Hoping 8.1 will be an improvement.

Either way I still play the Warrior as Fury is pretty damn fun to play

[Deleted]

So Vanguard is going to be 60%

While already being the tank with the highest base armor, it's gonna increase by 10% (I'm already at around 50% mitigation on bosses)

The stamina buff will put us above Paladins (not 100% sure on this one) so we're not gonna get demolished by magic damage so easy

[Deciticus]

But...but...Blood DK got nerfed! According to some people on the forums Blood's nerf is your buff!

(In case you didn't guess I was being sarcastic and I'm not stupid enough to think that a nerf to another class is meant to be a buff to someone else)

All I can say is welcome to the club, seems to be Blizzards answer to everything these day..."Your class sucks, well today is your lucky day!" they buff a few numbers and apparently to them that means all better.

What does DK nerf have to do with prot getting massive buffs?

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The whole point is that prot warrior has little to no utility in his arsenal. No one said he was made of paper or anything, cause he certainly isn't. Just no stuff to stack mobs together or keep them away from yourself. (Something warrior desperately needs considering gaps in mitigation.)

Slow from Tclap, leap and intercept to get away, lowest CD aoe stun in the game, aoe fear. They have decent utility.

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You really think it was right to wait 4 month to get buffs that should have come in a hotfix?

Oh my God, the buffs are massive, would you hush

Of course m+10 isn't hard anymore 3 month after release. And no, it is not right when there are huge gaps between tanks, healers or dds. Sure every class and spec has its strong and weak side, that is intended. But a tank should never struggle with his key roles: keep aggro and migate the incoming damage. We seirously lacked in that part. And its not the lfr community that is complaining here. Several high m+ healers made comparrisons between tanks. This thread have some of these comparrisons, just search for it.

We dont need to be top of the line, but we need to not be a burden if you take us over an blood dk. Thats just shitty balancing and should be fixed as soon as possible. This goes for every class and spec. If you invest time and effort, you should be able to reach the top or at least get close. If that isn't given you fucked up the balancing and with it the basics of a MMORPG. The bad playstyle of prot didn't make it better. And I am happy for every player in my raid who recieves a needed buff for his favorite spec.

Sure you can go around and say the mid tier content (what a +10 is) is doable, but does it have to be a pain in the ass? Sure you can do your +10 once a week, but wouldn't you rather enjoy doing it? Sure a competent group fixes a lot, but wouldn't it be nice if you could fix a mayor mistake of a teammate and preventing a wipe?

I dont know you, but I like to pull my char to the limit and playing prot warrior feels like driving a porsche in a F1 race. No matter how well I do, this car will never win me a trophy.

No, we didn't. The only massive gap is in m+, and that's do to how m+ functions. If you don't like it, reroll or don't push past 18s. Prot already has the highest physical mitigation, and that's only going up. In raid, there's no really a reason to bring a DK over a warrior post-8.1

You seem to have a serious misunderstanding of the meta, son.

[dwarfeckiy]

Slow from Tclap, leap and intercept to get away, lowest CD aoe stun in the game, aoe fear. They have decent utility.

20% slow, are you serious my guy? It's like trying to shoot someone with a water gun. "Aoe" stun is frontal cone, fear requires uncompetitive talent and still breaks on damage.
No mass taunt, no ranged interrupt. Just cone stun and charges all over the place that don't make much sense if you don't have a frost mage to back you up.

Dungeons don't favor armored tincans, sadly. They favor versatile jacks-of-all-trades who can do virtually everything and still live to fight another day.

[Deciticus]

20% slow, are you serious my guy? It's like trying to shoot someone with a water gun. "Aoe" stun is frontal cone, fear requires uncompetitive talent and still breaks on damage.
No mass taunt, no ranged interrupt. Just cone stun and charges all over the place that don't make much sense if you don't have a frost mage to back you up.

Dungeons don't favor armored tincans, sadly. They favor versatile jacks-of-all-trades who can do virtually everything and still live to fight another day.

The only two AoE taunts would be paladin bubble, which is a 5 minute cooldown, and from a talent that is never taken, or from Black Ox Statue, but that is also never taken because RoP is better in literally every dungeon scenario ever! Even this week with skittish. So AoE taunt is not a real point. Try again.

The main issues prot has is a lack of grip/grouping, and lack of ability to directly handle infested. It's main strength, and the reason it's doing just as well as paladin in keys (and better than dh or poor bears) is it's absolutely bonkers damage, and need for only minor attention from a healer when played properly.

[eduwneso]

Either way I still play the Warrior as Fury is pretty damn fun to play

This! I've been using only paladin since lich bith some DK on pandaria, but this is the first time that I've been interested in a warrior and indeed fury is fun! (saying fun doesn't mean difficult) coming from Ret to fury feels amazing.

[dwarfeckiy]

The only two AoE taunts would be paladin bubble, which is a 5 minute cooldown, and from a talent that is never taken, or from Black Ox Statue, but that is also never taken because RoP is better in literally every dungeon scenario ever! Even this week with skittish. So AoE taunt is not a real point. Try again.

The main issues prot has is a lack of grip/grouping, and lack of ability to directly handle infested. It's main strength, and the reason it's doing just as well as paladin in keys (and better than dh or poor bears) is it's absolutely bonkers damage, and need for only minor attention from a healer when played properly.

AoE taunt with somewhat Overlord's Challenge effect is your grip/grouping tool. So yeah, you missed the real point pretty much.

[Kolvarg]

Why would it matter, i mean there are problems with the class, but the mass complaining does not come from people like me, i will just adapt and go with the flow.

Personally my problem isn't even with the spec performing worse than other tanks. It's simply that it's not very fun to play. The most fun thing I've found of Prot Warr so far in BfA was how you could outdamage the dps with Avatar + Thunder Clap spam.

Maybe it's just nostalgia or mis-remembering or something, but regardless of balance compared to other tanks, the spec was just so much more fun to play in MoP and even WoD. In Legion in started becoming "meh", and in BfA it just got worse, for me.

[Meiffert]

Oh my God, the buffs are massive, would you hush

The disappointment is caused by something else.

We knew warriors had design issues and being undertuned since beta.
Blizzard could have buffed our stamina in a hotfix at any point to make us less bad in raids. It would have taken them 5 minutes.

Instead, they went out and said: "We understand that warriors are in a bad spot, but we want to fix the underlying issues (most talents being unusable, mastery doubling down on your biggest strength and not really helping against what kills you etc.) and we can't do those in a hotfix, so be patient, we will have cool stuff in the next patch."

It's not that we hate the buffs in a vacuum. But if Blizzard decided not to change the design after all, they should have pushed these in a hotfix months ago.
We wasted a full tier playing on alts waiting for what ended up being mostly a numbers hotfix.

[lordzed83]

reactivated wow after quitting 3 weeks in to BFA maybe now I can have fun on my warrior.
Maybe I could lvl up my Resto shamy

[Deciticus]

The disappointment is caused by something else.

We knew warriors had design issues and being undertuned since beta.
Blizzard could have buffed our stamina in a hotfix at any point to make us less bad in raids. It would have taken them 5 minutes.

Instead, they went out and said: "We understand that warriors are in a bad spot, but we want to fix the underlying issues (most talents being unusable, mastery doubling down on your biggest strength and not really helping against what kills you etc.) and we can't do those in a hotfix, so be patient, we will have cool stuff in the next patch."

It's not that we hate the buffs in a vacuum. But if Blizzard decided not to change the design after all, they should have pushed these in a hotfix months ago.
We wasted a full tier playing on alts waiting for what ended up being mostly a numbers hotfix.

So you mean, a spec that is slightly underperforming, was given a slight buff to hold it off until more major buffs could be given at the time of a patch, to bring it up to par, if not over the other specs for it's role?

You mean they did what they have done since the game began? No. They just decided to do this NOW, because screw prot warriors reeee

Seriously though, prot is looking very, very good in 8.1. And for the record, 13 of 21 talents see use in some way, and in meme healing builds you could tack on 14/21 (but that's purely meme or dealing with extreme magic damage)
What tier did you waste? Uldir isn't over yet. Got another month 2/3 to go.

[dwarfeckiy]

Sadly, "slightly underperforming" translates into "slighty represented". God i hope 8.1 will be enough.

[Deciticus]

Sadly, "slightly underperforming" translates into "slighty represented". God i hope 8.1 will be enough.

Some of the stronger specs right now are not as widely used as some of the weaker specs at the moment. Popularity has little, if not outright nothing, to do with viability or strength.

[Meiffert]

So you mean, a spec that is slightly underperforming, was given a slight buff to hold it off until more major buffs could be given at the time of a patch, to bring it up to par, if not over the other specs for it's role?

Blizzard said that they planned to fix the underlying mechanical issues. Shortly after, our mastery was removed on PTR and presumably a new one was going to be added.
Then they decided to change their minds and slap 5 % stamina + 5 % armor + another 5 % armor later on to our passive. These type of changes can (and should) have been done in a hotfix immediately. Why did they wait months for a patch to increase a passive multiplier? There is no reason for that.

a) Slapping a stamina/armor buff to our passive a week after Uldir opens? Perfectly fine if slightly lazy solution.
b) Fixing the spec on a fundamental level with new mastery and talents overhaul even if that means waiting for a patch? Ideal and "promised" (though I still can't see why we didn't have a slight stamina buff in the meantime)
c) Waiting for months only to get the passive hotifx from a)? I will take it, but can't help being slightly disappointed.

What tier did you waste? Uldir isn't over yet. Got another month 2/3 to go.

Ok, you are right, it's not an entire tier, just most of it. I can (and will) play my warrior now, but I'd have preferred to play it during progression without being a liability.

And for the record, 13 of 21 talents see use in some way, and in meme healing builds you could tack on 14/21 (but that's purely meme or dealing with extreme magic damage)

The synergy between Anger Management and talents that improve individual cooldowns is too strong and not taking advantage of it is a huge loss. In the majority of situations you are basically required to take these regardless of your preference or the encounter seemingly favoring something else.

For example, on Fetid you can only block one Thrash with a Shield Block.
Heavy Repercussions allows you to block 2 Thrashes with a single cast. It literally doubles the value of your active mitigation on that boss. It is a prime example of a talent being perfectly tailored for an encounter. 91.33 % of players still chose to keep Anger Management instead.


The IP change is what many wanted and it's nice to have off-GCD rage dump, don't get me wrong. But it doubles down in a way on the current situation - we will still be locked in the AM + cooldowns setup with more rage being generated/burned to fuel the cooldown recovery faster.
Maybe we will be a strong tanks now, maybe even top, but the talent inflexibility and clunky mastery stays. (You can only critically block attacks that have already been blocked; those aren't attacks that are threatening. We need something against unblocked/unblockable damage.)

[Deciticus]

Blizzard said that they planned to fix the underlying mechanical issues. Shortly after, our mastery was removed on PTR and presumably a new one was going to be added.
Then they decided to change their minds and slap 5 % stamina + 5 % armor + another 5 % armor later on to our passive. These type of changes can (and should) have been done in a hotfix immediately. Why did they wait months for a patch to increase a passive multiplier? There is no reason for that.

a) Slapping a stamina/armor buff to our passive a week after Uldir opens? Perfectly fine if slightly lazy solution.
b) Fixing the spec on a fundamental level with new mastery and talents overhaul even if that means waiting for a patch? Ideal and "promised" (though I still can't see why we didn't have a slight stamina buff in the meantime)
c) Waiting for months only to get the passive hotifx from a)? I will take it, but can't help being slightly disappointed.



Ok, you are right, it's not an entire tier, just most of it. I can (and will) play my warrior now, but I'd have preferred to play it during progression without being a liability.



The synergy between Anger Management and talents that improve individual cooldowns is too strong and not taking advantage of it is a huge loss. In the majority of situations you are basically required to take these regardless of your preference or the encounter seemingly favoring something else.

For example, on Fetid you can only block one Thrash with a Shield Block.
Heavy Repercussions allows you to block 2 Thrashes with a single cast. It literally doubles the value of your active mitigation on that boss. It is a prime example of a talent being perfectly tailored for an encounter. 91.33 % of players still chose to keep Anger Management instead.


The IP change is what many wanted and it's nice to have off-GCD rage dump, don't get me wrong. But it doubles down in a way on the current situation - we will still be locked in the AM + cooldowns setup with more rage being generated/burned to fuel the cooldown recovery faster.
Maybe we will be a strong tanks now, maybe even top, but the talent inflexibility and clunky mastery stays. (You can only critically block attacks that have already been blocked; those aren't attacks that are threatening. We need something against unblocked/unblockable damage.)

I completely agree on the mastery debacle. The fact that it was initially seeming to be given a re-design, and then just returned with nothing said on the matter, was beyond stupid.

As for the delay, I agree again. Some things, like IP or SB recharge time, or blocking ranged attacks, those do sound large enough to warrant waiting for a patch. The Vanguard buffs though, I fully agree that they could have been implemented a month ago with no harm. Then again, what do I know.

I too plan to fully go hard into prot. We're on farm anyway, and I haven't done anything beyond heroic with it yet. Curious to try the famed HR thrash build I've seen mentioned a few times on Skyhold. Someone mentioned it and talked with a gold guy once, and it was interesting to hear.

The IP change further entrenching us in AM is a good point. I have heard it mentioned in the past, and think it possibly warranted at this point, to make AM a warrior baseline. I don't know the balance ramifications of such a thing, but arms and prot are dominated by the talent, except for very niche situations, and even fury will likely eventually end up being stuck with it, as rage generation and expenditure increases to inevitably outpace and outperform Siegebreaker.

[msdos]

Some of the stronger specs right now are not as widely used as some of the weaker specs at the moment. Popularity has little, if not outright nothing, to do with viability or strength.

My example would be Demonology. It does good damage but people still refuse to play it, even in PVP.

[dwarfeckiy]

Demonology always felt super complex for me for some reason. I tried to pick it up back in 4.3.4 and it was a goddamn disaster. I haven't really gave it another shot since then, maybe that's why. Good demolocks did outstanding damage at that time and i had no idea how the bloody hell.