View Poll Results: Did you enjoy watching the movie AVENGERS: ENDGAME™

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  • I was satisfied after watching the movie AVENGERS: ENDGAME™

    572 84.12%
  • I wasn't satisfied after watching the movie AVENGERS: ENDGAME™

    108 15.88%
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  1. #1841
    Quote Originally Posted by Svifnymr View Post
    I would think the "erased" is just a way of saying they never happen if you undo what you did. If you remove a stone, then replace the stone and no one notices (even if it took time, when you return you'd return to right after you took it) then history would continue on as if nothing happened and there is no alternate. Until you return them though, there is a fork, which you undo by returning them.
    If any alterations to the timeline remain, then you have created an alternate which will persist and run a new course.

    (I do not know if there are alternate timelines already or if alternate timelines in any way harm the main timeline, or really why there would even BE a main timeline if there are already alternate timelines.)
    I agree with you, that's how I view the thing.

    But in my opinion, all the timelines they've visited are altered, so they have to continue on their own path.

    1970: Pym Particles stolen, will probably affect the relationship between Stark and Pym. Space Stone likely replaced without the Cube, will have an impact about the researches made on it, so potential direct impact on both Captain Marvel events (1995) and Avengers 1 (2010).
    2010: Loki escaped, and Captain will put back the Spirit Stone near the Scepter (wasn't it brought back to 2023 in the first place ? Or only the Stone ? Don't remember) in the suitcase, then he will handle this back to Hydra agents, thus confirming Captain is working with - or at least aware of - Hydra. Plus, 2010 Captain was also convinced he faced Loki on this bridge thing.
    2013: Thanos, Nebula and Gamora suddenly disappeared. Plus, in GotG, Quill arrived a few minutes before Korath to get the Power Stone. With Quill stunned by War Machine, it is very likely Korath gets the Stone before him, and anyway without Gamora in the whole picture, Drax may not join the Guardians, and the whole Knowhere plot disappears. Ronan will have a free Power Stone and without Thanos in the picture, he's definitely the most powerful being in the universe.

    There is a good chance Disney uses the 2010 new timeline for their Loki serie, that's a perfect excuse to start from scratch, without the audience knowing how it will unfold in the next months/years (Ragnarok events and so on).
    Last edited by Ophenia; 2019-04-30 at 02:30 PM.

  2. #1842
    I liked the movie but it didn't feel like it particularly cared about time travel rules and just wanted to do their thing with it.

    There's a big deal made about putting the infinity stones back. Fair enough. Thor's hammer is put back too.

    But having Thanos and his army gone is likely to have a huge impact on that other timeline. And cap going back in time didn't make a branched timeline he just stayed in the main one?

  3. #1843
    Quote Originally Posted by Bright-Flower View Post
    I liked the movie but it didn't feel like it particularly cared about time travel rules and just wanted to do their thing with it.

    There's a big deal made about putting the infinity stones back. Fair enough. Thor's hammer is put back too.

    But having Thanos and his army gone is likely to have a huge impact on that other timeline. And cap going back in time didn't make a branched timeline he just stayed in the main one?
    Just quoting you as an example here. Yes the other timeline is permanently altered but due to the fact that every other timeline will not reverse the snap i would say to the better. The important part is, that the stones are back so that the timeline has all the tools necessary to survive on their own.

    Their are already rumors that the Loki Disney+ series will evolve around this escaped Loki.

  4. #1844
    Finally watched it and overall loved it (if I had been alone in the theater I'd have cried my eyes out about half a dozen times, I really struggled), just a few minor problems:

    1. Tony is a giant hypocrite. He was in Iron Man 3, when he destroyed all his suits just to build new ones for Age of Ultron, he was in Civil War when he literally fought for the Sokovia Accords only to disregard them in the very same movie (when lying to the agents to travel to Siberia alone), he remained a hypocrite for Inifinity War (can't remember him asking for permission before engaging Thanos' troups in New York or at any point afterwards) and he completely blew up the hypocrisy scale here when he blamed Rogers for not being there when he needed him. Now whose fault was it again that Rogers was an internationally wanted criminal?

    2. Old Cap shouldn't have existed to give Falcon his shield. While he travelled back to return the inifinity stones (I wonder how he created a new cube for the Tesseract) causality required him to do this in the same reality they took them from, the reality where Thanos learned of their plan and jumped out of. This however was something he could not undo so he should have grown old in the alternative reality where Thanos stopped existing 2014 and could not have been in the normal "timeline" anymore.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bright-Flower View Post
    I liked the movie but it didn't feel like it particularly cared about time travel rules and just wanted to do their thing with it.

    There's a big deal made about putting the infinity stones back. Fair enough. Thor's hammer is put back too.

    But having Thanos and his army gone is likely to have a huge impact on that other timeline. And cap going back in time didn't make a branched timeline he just stayed in the main one?
    Good I'm not the only one who noticed. Good and contradiction-free time travel plots are just too rare.

    P.s. Ah, totally forgot about Loki's escape. I sure hope Cap fixed that too.
    Last edited by Galathir; 2019-04-30 at 02:52 PM.

  5. #1845
    Any time you travel back in time it creates a new unhindered timeline separate from any other time line. It is likely why we do not see time travelers now if time travel exists. It is like this to prevent the universe from imploding on itself.
    “If you don't believe me that is too damn bad!”

  6. #1846
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Any time you travel back in time it creates a new unhindered timeline separate from any other time line. It is likely why we do not see time travelers now if time travel exists. It is like this to prevent the universe from imploding on itself.
    Except for Cap traveling back in time because reasons.

  7. #1847
    Quote Originally Posted by Bright-Flower View Post
    Except for Cap traveling back in time because reasons.
    Yep, I think that had to do with contracts ending more than anything.
    “If you don't believe me that is too damn bad!”

  8. #1848
    Saw it Sunday and have had some time to mull it over. Seems like spoiler tags are here and there in this thread, so being cautious.


    Incredible finale that I was so glad I avoided spoilers to see, and overall fantastic movie if you ignore the timey-wimey stuff. Problem is as someone who always enjoys those stories when well done, well it annoys me because it is so in your face and something I can't look past.

    Missed opportunity: one end credit scene, pulling back from tony's reactor thing at the bottom of the lake, slightly covered in silt. We get Kang, noting "what a mess these amateurs have made". Would have loved that, and considering how much I clapped and cheered at scenes in the movie, it would have been as huge as Thanos at the end of Avengers. It would have been an acknowledgement that the heroes in their victory messed up big time, something that I think the movie needed to point out. That's really my problem with the movie, if you don't "have" to fix the mess you make, why bother trying to be sneaky. Talking with the ancient one (which I thought was a great cameo) to me emphasized it was their duty to set things right, and in essence make their work not create alternate timelines, but simply be fulfilling history. I know they tried to play off all the time travel stuff the audience is used to from film as nonsense, but without that, well, you really don't have consequences.

    Fixable issues:
    -space stone theft: fixable. Cap replaces the Pym particles and the space stone.
    -mind stone theft: fixable
    -ether stone theft: fixable
    -time stone theft: fixable
    -soul stone fixable
    -space stone misstep: fixable. Could even play out where Cap works the ancient one to get the space stone back and put loki back where he belonged with her help and the time stone. I can take this leap of faith. I thought for sure that when Bucky was looking away after cap didn't jump back, we were going to get an eye flash and he was going to be loki, though I liked that ending with cap even better.


    small mess: cap going back to be with peggy. since I liked that concept, I can look past it. I'd have to rewatch too much to see if this is ruled out in the other movies, or left vague enough to where it could have occurred.

    Big ass messes:
    -power stone and the elimination of thanos. all that was just ugly. if Tony had used the gauntlet to zap them back, zap their minds, use the soul stone to bring nebula back to life, etc etc, then you could say this was fixed, but since it just looked like he massacred them all, I'm calling this a mess. that is unlike loki swiping the space stone, this has to make an alternate reality as noted above because how do you fix the lack of thanos?

    Biggest problem:
    Continuation of the MCU: how can you even begin to deal with half the population having a 5 year gap. stuff I'm sure has been discussed to death in this thread. How is the next spiderman movie going to even work, with half his class being 5 years older. If DC had done this, people would be all over their case. they haven't earned any faith in doing something this big with what they've built. I'll give Feige et al some credit on what they've done so far, so I'm anxious to see how this is addressed in spider man.

    That said, there was a lot of awesome in this film. 9.5/10 for me, with that going up or down depending on how the cinematic universe evolves from this point.


  9. #1849
    Dreadlord salate's Avatar
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    Spoiler link to explain the timeline stuff
    No idea who made dis but well, atleast it explains stuff.
    https://pp.userapi.com/c846320/v8463...5XWtIhdjCo.jpg (dont click it if u didnt watch the movie)

    I like the movie tbh.
    step into everything will gief ya nothing, mon

  10. #1850

  11. #1851
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    When exactly do we learn the "alternative timelines" get erased when you return the stones ?
    Especially when we perfectly know that's wrong - otherwise the "main timeline" would have been erased as soon as the Avengers brought back all 6 after their destruction.

    In my opinion, all the created timelines (1970, 2010, 2013 and probably 194x where Cap spent his retirement) are parallel timelines with no impact to the main one whatever is happening there. Like completely independent.

    There is NO way the "main timeline" (the one we witness in the movies) are following 1970 (Pym particles stolen), 2010 (Loki disappeared, Captain seemingly working for Hydra) and 2013 (Thanos, Nebula and Gamora completely poofed out of this reality)'s ones



    Well, erm, we all love Cap'tain but he's still a pretty random mortal. He can't use the Time Stone by himself just like that (no Eye of Agamoto, no months of learning the incantations or whatever), I seriously doubt he can use the Reality Stone either.
    Check the scene with the ancient one where they specifically say just that. With a visual aid and everything
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Got to earn his turnips.

  12. #1852
    Scarab Lord Logwyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by salate View Post
    Spoiler link to explain the timeline stuff
    No idea who made dis but well, atleast it explains stuff.
    https://pp.userapi.com/c846320/v8463...5XWtIhdjCo.jpg (dont click it if u didnt watch the movie)

    I like the movie tbh.
    People really need to have a key to their abbreviations. Otherwise, they are just being lazy.

  13. #1853
    The Insane PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daevied View Post
    What really? But they always make references to the avengers movie, what a bummer those were good series
    I was reading a post on reddit that Disney can't even use the characters for two years or something like that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by salate View Post
    Spoiler link to explain the timeline stuff
    No idea who made dis but well, atleast it explains stuff.
    https://pp.userapi.com/c846320/v8463...5XWtIhdjCo.jpg (dont click it if u didnt watch the movie)

    I like the movie tbh.
    I struggling with whether or not they jumped to one parallel timeline or created multiple timelines when they jumped. I decided on one parallel timeline in my head because its a lot simpler. Wonder what the canon explanation is.

  14. #1854
    Quote Originally Posted by SavoirFaire View Post

    Biggest problem:
    Continuation of the MCU: how can you even begin to deal with half the population having a 5 year gap. stuff I'm sure has been discussed to death in this thread. How is the next spiderman movie going to even work, with half his class being 5 years older. If DC had done this, people would be all over their case. they haven't earned any faith in doing something this big with what they've built. I'll give Feige et al some credit on what they've done so far, so I'm anxious to see how this is addressed in spider man.

    Your last sentence says it all for me. There have been several big notes at this point, especially in IW and Endgame, where a lot of folks were worried how it wasn't going to be crap, and so far Feige etc have delivered pretty solidly. How Far From Home plays out will prove if their still hitting their beats or not.

  15. #1855
    Just saw it this morning, what an amazing movie.

  16. #1856
    Quote Originally Posted by salate View Post
    Spoiler link to explain the timeline stuff
    No idea who made dis but well, atleast it explains stuff.
    https://pp.userapi.com/c846320/v8463...5XWtIhdjCo.jpg (dont click it if u didnt watch the movie)

    I like the movie tbh.
    This maps it all consistent with how I understand things, but I'm not sure I agree with all the branch timelines still being in existence. The fundamental argument made in the film is returning the stones with minimal disruption should undo the branching.

    To me there are only 2 branch timelines left post movie. The one with Loki escaping because just returning the mind stone isn't going to unravel the failed heist of the space stone, and the one where Cap chooses to live his life with Peggy because its not even created by a stone and there's arguably no easy way to "go back and fix it".

    Maybe there's a 3rd, the one Thanos traveled from for the end fight, but I guess it comes down to when Cap could return the stone. If he could just waltz into the ruins and place it back moments after Nebula snagged it, Quill could arguably come to in time to get the stone before the ripple effects of the stone heist really began. Might be a stretch though, so maybe there's a third.

    I think some of this depends on if the stones could be returned a literal instant after taken or not, or would Cap have to wait until they're in the main timeline (i.e. it's impossible for two of the same stones to exist in the same timeline). If it's the latter, then yeah, we've got a boatload of divergent timelines

    None of that bothers me though, unless that's all true and [B]never[/B] addressed in any way. The only time travel bit that bugs me is Steve's return to the main timeline, which really should have been on the time machine pad to not (apparently) break the rules set in the movie. I have heard the argument that in the branch timeline where he stayed with Peggy, he must have been Cap since he had a shield to even pass to Sam at all. And if that's true, then you could argue that geniuses in that timeline could have just figured out how to send him to his original timeline. That works I guess, but that feels a bit Marvel No-Prize to me.

  17. #1857
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    I agree with you, that's how I view the thing.

    But in my opinion, all the timelines they've visited are altered, so they have to continue on their own path.
    As I mentioned though, have their always been alternate timelines and now there are 1-4 more alternates? Or is there only the one timeline that's important and now 1-4 new alternates? I think there has to be many alternates and creating a few more really doesn't matter much.
    "I only feel two things Gary, nothing, and nothingness."

  18. #1858
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    I was reading a post on reddit that Disney can't even use the characters for two years or something like that.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I struggling with whether or not they jumped to one parallel timeline or created multiple timelines when they jumped. I decided on one parallel timeline in my head because its a lot simpler. Wonder what the canon explanation is.


    They created several branches in time, and each alteration of the past created a new timeline that will develop on itself. You have:

    The 1950 timeline in which Steve Rogers goes back to marry Peggy Carter.

    The 1970es timeline where Tony Stark meets Howard

    The 2012 timeline in which Loki escapes after the events of The Avengers

    The 2013 timeline in which Thor meets his mother

    The 2014 timeline, from where Thanos invades the main timeline and is then removed from by Tony Stark

    And the Main Timeline. Main Timeline Steve Rogers, at high age, uses his suit to travel back to this timeline in 2023, right after Starks funeral, to pass on the Shield to Sam and say goodbye to Bucky. He never lived out his life in this timeline, but in an alternate one, namely the last seen in the movie, the 1950es timeline. In the Main Timeline, Peggy Carter married an unnamed US soldier.

    The last part is, of course, happening off screen. It's the only explenation that allows for a unified theory of timetravel, namely that the Pym particle allows you not only to travel time, but also alternate realities. You cannot alter the past to change the present.
    Last edited by Skulltaker; 2019-04-30 at 08:10 PM.

  19. #1859
    The Insane PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post


    They created several branches in time, and each alteration of the past created a new timeline that will develop on itself. You have:

    The 1950 timeline in which Steve Rogers goes back to marry Peggy Carter.

    The 1970es timeline where Tony Stark meets Howard

    The 2012 timeline in which Loki escapes after the events of The Avengers

    The 2013 timeline in which Thor meets his mother

    The 2014 timeline, from where Thanos invades the main timeline and is then removed from by Tony Stark

    And the Main Timeline. Main Timeline Steve Rogers, at high age, uses his suit to travel back to this timeline in 2023, right after Starks funeral, to pass on the Shield to Sam and say goodbye to Bucky. He never lived out his life in this timeline, but in an alternate one. In the Main Timeline, Peggy Carter married an unnamed US soldier.

    Ah. It suddenly all clicks now.

  20. #1860
    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post


    And the Main Timeline. Main Timeline Steve Rogers, at high age, uses his suit to travel back to this timeline in 2023, right after Starks funeral, to pass on the Shield to Sam and say goodbye to Bucky. He never lived out his life in this timeline, but in an alternate one, namely the last seen in the movie, the 1950es timeline. In the Main Timeline, Peggy Carter married an unnamed US soldier.
    So, I mean, Mr Unnamed could be Steve Rogers with a big fake beard?
    "I only feel two things Gary, nothing, and nothingness."

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