Blood DK vs Prot Paladin m+

[Heavy Gains]

Quick backstory. My group of friends retired from mythic raiding with the launch of bfa. Some quit, some decided to give it until first major patch. Our core m+ team from last expansion stayed, except our healer. I chose ret as a main, our tank stayed blood dk. At the end of legion we were clearing 20s - 22s. Now, we've had to swap the dk to frost and me to prot to clear over 15s. Am I missing something here? I keep hearing how strong blood is. I haven't leveled one yet to know for myself, but is it majorly different than legion blood dk? Is my friend a product of gear masking his ability at the end of legion?

Main question: what do you all think is the stronger m+ tank and why?

[Sarrgoth]

I've heard blood tanks are the second strongest tanks atm, surpassed only by demon hunters. Last week I heard brewmasters were the superior tanks and the week before that, prot paladins.

But it's safe to say that druids and warriors are horrible tanks. As far as death knight, I think they're above average.

[Roquefort]

If you head over to raider.io and look at the number of tanks completing +15 runs Blood is first and pally is 4th. Frost does even worse as dps.

[pay928]

https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season...acter/all/tank

Top tier tanks: DK, DH slightly above Pally & Monk. The skew in #s may just be confirmation bias of people rolling DK from how strong they were in Legio. However, Pally and Monk are a lot closer now since self-sustain got lessened and Prot pallies sound like they're less spiky than in legion.

Likewise, DK and Pally dps specs are pretty even.

[Heavy Gains]

If you head over to raider.io and look at the number of tanks completing +15 runs Blood is first and pally is 4th. Frost does even worse as dps.

I'm trying to get him to give me the ok to post some logs So we can start a discussion as to why he gets tin canned on anything above a 10. I won't post them without his ok tho because I don't want to be "that guy" that is like why is my friend sucking let's all bash him.

Edit:
Oh also I said 15s out of habit, but I meant 10s. Highest we've hit so far in time with him tanking was an 11, and a 13 with him as dps.

[ymn]

It really depends on affixes as well. DKs are bad when there's Necrotic around (but they do have the best peel tools via 90% slow on D&D), since they have 2 CDs to mitigate damage (besides AMS), but their defenses are still lackluster. They can be both, self-sufficient and spiky.

Going forward and judging by the previous expansions, they will still be top tier. You can never go wrong with Blood in these scenarios though. Raiding really depends from tier to tier.

[Saiona]

It really depends on affixes as well. DKs are bad when there's Necrotic around (but they do have the best peel tools via 90% slow on D&D), since they have 2 CDs to mitigate damage (besides AMS), but their defenses are still lackluster. They can be both, self-sufficient and spiky.

Going forward and judging by the previous expansions, they will still be top tier. You can never go wrong with Blood in these scenarios though. Raiding really depends from tier to tier.

They can ams necrotic and kite when they dont have ams

[ONCHEhap]

DK is not as great as the community would have you think right now,it just suffers from a heavy post-FOTM syndrome
Since blood was really strong and easy to play in m+ in Legion,a lot of people rerolled to blood,so now you just have a lot more blood DKs than other tanks in m+,which skews the numbers

Imo,DH is by far the best m+ tank,blood is second with paladin as third,they are better with utility,but their survivability isn't as good as paladins on trash,however they tank bosses more easily

Skillcap on blood has been increased as well,and many blood DKs still play the old Legion "spam death strike" playstyle,which just won't work as soon as you hit challenging content


I expect blood to rise to the top at some point though,just as usual,blood starts weak,and scales immensely with gear,besides,Blood won't ever go back to NH levels of bad where they were virtually useless

- - - Updated - - -

They can ams necrotic and kite when they dont have ams

necrotic lasts 10 seconds,depending on traits and talents,AMS lasts up to 8 seconds

Of course that means they need to avoid getting hit for only 2 seconds,but there are a lot of mobs who are immune to slows out there

[Deleted]

Paladin have tons of utility for m+

[boz0]

necrotic lasts 10 seconds,depending on traits and talents,AMS lasts up to 8 seconds

Necrotic actually went down to 9 secs with BfA.

[Marrilaife]

Paladin have tons of utility for m+

So do dks and dhs.

Hard to compare, as it's different kind of utility and it's a question what your group needs more.

I think all 3 of them (dk, dh & pala) can be strong in m+, in Legion most top m+ tanks picked dk, now there's a bit more variety.

[Deleted]

DK is not as great as the community would have you think right now,it just suffers from a heavy post-FOTM syndrome
Since blood was really strong and easy to play in m+ in Legion,a lot of people rerolled to blood,so now you just have a lot more blood DKs than other tanks in m+,which skews the numbers

Imo,DH is by far the best m+ tank,blood is second with paladin as third,they are better with utility,but their survivability isn't as good as paladins on trash,however they tank bosses more easily

Skillcap on blood has been increased as well,and many blood DKs still play the old Legion "spam death strike" playstyle,which just won't work as soon as you hit challenging content


I expect blood to rise to the top at some point though,just as usual,blood starts weak,and scales immensely with gear,besides,Blood won't ever go back to NH levels of bad where they were virtually useless

- - - Updated - - -



necrotic lasts 10 seconds,depending on traits and talents,AMS lasts up to 8 seconds

Of course that means they need to avoid getting hit for only 2 seconds,but there are a lot of mobs who are immune to slows out there

DK has never been weak to necrotic.

Pulling with AMS means not even getting stacks, allowing much more aggro before you kite.

DRW is also a great way to reset stacks.Dks are still kings of m+

[Th3Scourge]

Monks, DKs & DHs are probably about equal with each having strengths and weaknesses. Prot pally maybe a little further behind. At current gear levels Bear tanks and Prot warriors probably have a harder time

[pay928]

There are 4 good tanks and 2 bad tanks in BfA. The 4 that are good all have their advantages in different situations and are all good picks. The other two, may Blizz have mercy on them. Or not, fuck bears, they are paying for Legion.

Warriors are just sitting in a corner spamming ignore pain for another expansion.

[Bloodtanker]

DK has never been weak to necrotic.

Pulling with AMS means not even getting stacks, allowing much more aggro before you kite.

DRW is also a great way to reset stacks.Dks are still kings of m+

Agree Blood is pretty strong in M+. This past week with fort and teeming I wasnt having issues at all since I went with Heartbreaker(First tier first trait...add an additional 2 RP on heartstrike for each target hit capping at 7 RP per HS) combined with Bonestorm. I been lazy with pluses lately but I was hitting 23-25k HPS on packs higher with bigger packs In waycrest manor (+9)while my healer was hitting 16-17k HPS. Bonestorm is Blood dks best friend in pluses I say its does AoE and heal you for 3% each time it does damager per target every second for 8 seconds(100 RP for 8 seconds). Bonestorm also makes me nervous they might nerf it but all in all talent choice matters for dks in pluses to make things smoother.

[faithbane]

I'm trying to get him to give me the ok to post some logs So we can start a discussion as to why he gets tin canned on anything above a 10. I won't post them without his ok tho because I don't want to be "that guy" that is like why is my friend sucking let's all bash him.

Edit:
Oh also I said 15s out of habit, but I meant 10s. Highest we've hit so far in time with him tanking was an 11, and a 13 with him as dps.

Can you share the armory of your friend and logs if you have any?

[Yhcti]

Id go DH purely because of kiting ability for high keys of which DK has none.

[Gorsameth]

Id go DH purely because of kiting ability for high keys of which DK has none.

Yeah you know, not like they have a (decaying) 90% aoe slow

[Naiyano]

Yeah you know, not like they have a (decaying) 90% aoe slow

And play with four other people who can slow, knockback or stun. The only time mobility is an issue for me is when I slowly get to the next pack I want to pull.

[Tojara]

Aside from a couple dungeons, necrotic isn't an issue at all for DKs, let alone any tank that has a brain. If there are mobs you know you can't snare there are plenty of options available. Lifegrip, demonic gateway, taunts from DPS, or simply using a skystep potion.

DKs can't kite with shear mobility, but we can certainly throw down a 90% decaying snare, that allows you to get plenty of distance in 90% of trash packs.

People act like you don't have a group behind you. I suppose other class snares, knockbacks, stuns and things like ring of peace simply don't exist.